posted Thu, 01/12/2012 - 09:45
2665
Spring Cutter
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29 yrs
205lbs
13% bf
Goals- Lean Mean Hulk Machine 6-7% bf?????
Week 1-12; test prop 400-600??
Week 1-7; Tren Ace 250- 350???
Week 8-12 Anavar (optional)???
Weeks 1-8: Cabergoline (as Needed)
Week 4-12: HCG 500 X2
Weeks 1-12: Aromisin as needed
Week 13-17: Clomid, Nolva, Aromisn
I have two very modest Test, Nandrolone, Dbol cycles under the belt and have bulked up quite nicely. This cycle will be for the spring and I already have the test and tren. I want to keep doses as low as possible and rely on diet and training to reach goals.
Is arimidex or Aromasin better as an ai for this cycle?
Has anyone tried the "keeping the test low" protocol?
All advice is much appreciated!!!
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You can do it however you want but I can atest to many vets in this game that conclude it to be right, do your own research and make your own decision, if all it take is one person to say its from experience and you believe it than so be it. Enjoy!
AnonIts not a study.
Its experience with biochemistry and factual lab work.. Seen blood work results first hand for these cases and had to analyze it.
You can stop trolling the forum and go back to your bro science now.
some other guy was on here saying that HCG during a cycle was important, which I dont agree with at all. You're running test...test will shut you down, so just be shut down...dont go shutting down, then turning on, then shutting down again...just to "keep your balls plump". HCG is good to use for PCT and that's it.
AnonPCT... NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
If you're using HCG for a stimulus to start LH/FSH production.. your body will never naturally start on its own. And thats the whole point of PCT..
If that's how you want to do things then fine. Personally, after cycling on and off for about 20 years, having used HCG for PCT sometimes...then sometimes not, I dont find what you say to be true. My body still naturally starts on its own after coming off. This is me speaking from actual experience, not repeating bro science I read on a board, or some study. Maybe your information is good, and I'm just an outlier or something...but everyone I know that has been using for as long as I have, and has used HCG for PCT doesnt have any problems with their natural test production.
AnonYou won't know if you fuck up your HPTA axis, and I still disagree with this until I would see a few samples of blood work to prove your theory from several cycles.
It's not a theory and I have done a lot more than several cycles. The last time I came off, which was last year, I used some clomid and nolva and my natural production returned.
Do you personally know anyone who has been permanently shut down from using HCG..or steroids in general?
AnonYes, I actually do. Ive seen peoples pituitary not jump back.
And Clomid is a must in my opinion. I would run it at 300/150 then 100/100/50/50 for 1-2 months following.
gee thanks for the tip. I had no idea how to run clomid.
I dont agree with that, my understanding is that it creates estrogen so why would you run it for PCT?
well you wouldnt use it exclusively. I do it with Nolva.
Most of the old litature I read suggests during PCT but almost all the new stuff suggests on cycle up to the day of PCT
if your going to use tren..Run cabergoline at .5mg to 1mg a wk to combat with prolatic buildup
Im all over it! and what Joose said about not needed HCG, care to chime in on that one?
AnonSo you say HCG is what you need to boost your natty test... once you stop using HCG, the LH production will come to a hault and the pituitary will not be able to restart until a certain stimulus is reached.. so essentially, once you stop HCG, the axis will fail-yet again.
Medical facts. Get any guru in here and he'll agree.
I thought HCG was just to keep your balls plump?
The theory being that you don't have to wait for them to grow before they start producing test again.
AnonThe theory of "bro science" is yes, they keep your balls plump. On issue is, the people who go off of bro science have no biochemistry background.
yes, if you take HCG while on cycle it will help with hypertrophy.. people swear that it is a MUST to help start back test production into your PCT.
but as I posted again, once HCG use is seized.. your LH/FSH production won't be able to reach a stimulus and the HPTA will crash. Plain and simple-setting yourself up for possible futuristic pituitary issues.
AnonDrop the HCG.
Lower the Test Prop to 10 weeks in my opinion and do ED injections.. you'll benefit more this way.
Start the tren at 50mg EOD to assess side effects and see your reactions. I would keep it at 8 weeks.
Run the Var for 5 weeks at 50mg ED
Nolva lowers IGF levels, so drop that.
Aromasin:at that dose (12.5) will raise your testosterone levels by about 60%, and also help out your free to bound testosterone ratio by lowering levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin
Clomid run: 300/150 for a front load then 100/100/50/50 to help your FSH/LH rebound.
I enjoy keeping the test at a level for an as needed basis. no need to jump the dosages up majorly each cycle
hope this helps bud. Let me know if you have any questions
Wow, Thanks for the quick response bro! Why should I drop the HCG? Should I run the Aromasin from day 1 and continue it until the end of PCT? I had a detached retina as a kid and I've heard clomid can cause eye problems, any thoughts on this? I was debating running ED injections and enjoy pinning so no biggy!
AnonI personally haven't had that issue with clomid.. if you give me some time ill do research on it.
Do the prop with ED injections. it will fair a higher constant level in your system.
HCG in simple terms is a short fix for a possible problem. it kicks your LH production but right as you stop.. your pituitary cannot reach a high enough stimulus to continue.. so you're right back to square one. Stick with the Aro and load the clomid like i posted. I love me some exemestane anyways!
run the cal throughout the cycle!
Joose, why would your run Tren on a cut cycle? I figured the Var and Prop would be good and save Tren for a bulk. (just wanted some clarity on Tren's affect)
AnonIf this is what he is leaning towards..im just trying to help him with protocol.
Tren will dry you the fuckk up. as well as lean you out. It produces a different quality of lean, cut up muscle.
Ah, I've always read/heard people throwing tren in on a bulk, not a cut. Good info!
like most steroids, tren can be used for either.
yea most people use tren for cutting, leaning out cardio sucks ass tho while on tren causes shortness of breath
It can be ran with both bro.
AnonTren is for whatever you want you can run it bulk or cut. Theres a reason its 5x as anabolic as test.
5x as anabolic as test, thats the key. This is why it should only be ran by those with years and years of cycle experiance.
Bingo. The more powerful the weapon, the more skilled the user must be. I would say it is for vets only. I never plan on using it, personally.
Tren is a great cutter bro, the sides suck ass though.
And the sides are what keeps me at bay from Tren. I've heard too many horror stories...i'll have to grow my balls quiet a bit more before I consider it. I'll stick to Test
Truth be told bro, everything you get from tren can be achived with other compounds and a great diet.
Very true, The classic Test, deca and npp stacks have worked very well for me!
AnonMaybe try NPP/Test Prop with Var.. that would fair pretty nicely.
Totally High Jacked this Thread (Sorry JFB). I guess that was a better point I wanted to make. Isn't there other things better to cut than Tren? I completely agree with Prop and Var. But you answered that...Again sorry for HiJacking your thread bro!
AnonProp/Masteron
If it aint broke dont fix it my man.
AnonAgreed 100%