as far as I'm concerned, it's just like tren ace. I get the same results off 3 250mcg tabs as I do from 600mg of tren ace a week. I always run my test e around 250-300mg a week with it. But I notice both size and leaning. I'm sure if I upped my calories back to 5000 a day I'd see a lot more size. It's just crazy with the cost of it and the mg comparison that u see the results u do. But I love it. It has its downfall like I said cus I'd never run it more than 4 weeks, but it beats the hell out of pinning ace everyday, especially if you wanna give ur injection sites a break for a while. My current favorite lean bulk cycle is test e at 300mg a week, tren ace at 600mg a week, masteron enanthate at 500mg a week for twelve weeks and during weeks 8-12, I throw dbol into the mix at 50mg a day. Alot of people like anadrol and tren, but the gains I get from the dbol and tren at the end of a cycle are ridiculous. I remember I used to be so scared to try tren because of the sides and then when I did, I was able to run it at 600mg a week with no sides... haha Everyone is different I guess. I don't even have a sleep or a temper issue on it. I just feel like a god and get huge. But yeah, the oral tren melts fat and bulks you for sure. Definitely more so than var. As with anything, diet is key.