+ 5 GENETICS are an important piece to the puzzle.
To all the newbies and guys that ignore genetics, I'll make this quick as I've seen various discussions on gear dosages today. I've always said that Genetics will always be a key factor, not high dosages. Now does hard work and dedication help? Yes.
This is a pic of Mr. Olympia Ronnie Coleman with with mother who was over 70 years old in pic. May she rest in peace. She is my focus not Ronnie.
His mother never competed yet had a daughter with this same type of muscular physique, not to even mention Ronnie. This picture doesn't do the mom justice as you would have to have seen her up close in person like I was fortunate to see her up close. I've never seen an older woman look like that seriously and I've said that a few times on here. Hope this gets some folks thinking.
Genetics Genetics....
This post is not to discourage anyone at all. I encourage everyone to be the best physically that you can be. What you're blessed with someone else may not have and vice versa. Train well and smart my friends.
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Good point man. You hit the nail on the head. Trust me my intention isn't to discourage folks but I can see how this post could discourage. And if it's that serious I have no issue taking this post down. It's just lately I've seen a few members, mainly newbies considering crazy amounts of gear for cycles. Maybe I'm overreacting but it confuses the hell out of me. I mean look, we all take risks taking gear but that risk can go up and become even more severe being reckless with gear. Some guys just seem to think juice is that magic bullet that's going to transform them from Bruce Banner to the Hulk overnight without any consequences or better yet without any regard for consequences. I've been in this game long enough to know better than that lol. Hey sometimes the truth hurts .
JasonmcsherryYeah and just look under any of the big pros pics/videos and there are tons of people saying "with tons of steroids I could do that" and they honestly believe that. Also, their are some hyper-responders to gear. They just look at a bottle of test and gain 30lbs of muscle lol.
In my family we have bad joints and backs. No way I could ever be a competitive powerlifter. After 4 years of football I needed shoulder surgery, knee surgery and back surgery. I can't even think about doing deadlifts or bent over Rows ever again.
Good point brother. For some odd reason some guys just can't comprehend what you just said lol. Like I said earlier I can train all day every day for the 100 meter dash and I STILL wouldn't ever run a 9.57 second world record race. At some point reality has to set in. Nothing to do with having no confidence.
No. What some people don't comprehend is having to change the title to a thread. And listing a bodybuilders mom's physique as to be a certain criteria in order to make the grade. If you posted the top 10 bodybuilders in all of their moms had a great physique like Ronnie Coleman's then I guess I could see your point to making this thread. Sorry to poke holes in such a closed-minded perspective bro. Genetics certainly do play a role in this lifestyle. But it's not the only "key" that's naive to think so. A key is one. It only unlocks one door. If the title said one of the many "keys" I wouldn't be wasting my time trust me. I think hard work ethics and mental fortitude are equally tied if not above genetics. Look at the fat dude butter bean boxer. Never seen him fight or just looking at him you would say this guy is going to get his ass whooped. Not the best genetics yet he still got in the ring and put a shame to these so-called genetically gifted physique boxers. That tells me that his strength endurance and will to win. It's also a key which is what I went over over and over again below. I'm sorry if my brain only speaks on this pseudo fictitious ego.. if you want to win that hundred meter dash, then keep striving for it. To say nope I'll never do it because I don't have the genetics it's just naive and creates a self shortcoming of our own perspective of ourselves. These dude said I can and I will win. That's mental fortitude, whether that's a genetic trait or not we all don't know enough to make blanket statements on the topic that is all bro. These guys didn't make it to the stage by saying nope I just can't do it, I don't have the genetics, I'll never get there. Do they have good genetics, yes. I don't think many people here are going to use enough gear or are even striving to be on that level or to step on stage. Even the newbies. That's reality more than anything else. If Tom Brady was the best quarterback of all time, do all the other quarterback say, I'll never get there so why bother trying, heck his father had a hell of an arm. Most of us the only competition we are in is with ourselves. Not other top-tier bodybuilders. That's a good point to make. Unless you or me are on that level with those guys then I don't think we have much opinion to say on the matter. Point blank. I can't speak for them or make a judgment as to what they actually went through to get there. Right?
I didn't read all this but ok I gotcha. Cool.
No worries. In general I think a post should be about or a thread the best for everyone on a topic like this. Not one with motive or intentions to fill one's personal needs, like looking out for newbies or anything else because that's not what I got from the original title or the original post.. so it's confusing when a person counter argues and then all these sideways points come up.
I'm not here for myself or my ego or to reassure myself or any of that I'm here to enjoy, speak my opinion, and or help others. If you're worried about newbies then start a thread that directly says you know you shouldn't be using a ton of gear. That you're worried about their genetic limitations to the massive amounts of gear. That is all bro have a good day. Like I said I could care less about other people I care about myself and helping others in the correct manner. I'm not trying to be negative or a detriment to anyone's goals I'm trying to actually do the opposite..
Hey you feel how you want to. What's typed is typed. You can keep making your points but what's done is done ok. Should be easy to figure out, a few members did already. That's life. Later
Hmmm, my take is good genetics can help you; but it's not a requirement. It can just help get you there faster than others. I mean if someone has a higher insulin sensitivity, then sure that's quite the advantage. But we can all supplement testosterone and or growth hormone. I think the guys that are naturally leaner and recover well, have higher levels of those due to genetics. I think the mindset may even top genetics. The dedication, perseverance and consistency. Plus a lot of fking food and a lot of hard work!! In terms of Ronnie Coleman. Yes it has been scientifically proven that the African race does indeed have more muscular skeletal growth than other races, as well as higher densities within muscle bellies
Well sir so that's proven about the African race huh? So look everything you said is true but if I do all those things that you just mentioned in your comment, do you think I'll look like Ronnie Coleman? No sir...negative! Not gonna happen, and I'm an optimist but more importantly a realist.
And I bet that a ton of other famous bodybuilders mothers don't look anywhere close to that, but they still won medals! There's so much variance in the human genome, some genes don't get activated unless certain environmental factors happen. Do I ever think I'll have the time money or dedication to get anywhere close to this guy status? That's where reality sets in. Even if I was genetically gifted
But, what I'm saying is you would need to do everything that Ronnie Coleman did. But for a longer period of time. How much longer will be depending on your genetics
But that's just my take no matter what the race, does he have an advantage because he is black, I would say yes. I think it mainly comes down to how much extra work the next guy has to do. One guy can accomplish goals in two or three workouts a week, the next guy might take five or six days and simply will never have the time, to come anywhere close. But some guys do put in that effort and I've seen some amazing transformations. Which makes you think how much do genetics really play a role? Are some guys better at converting proteins yes I bet thats a key advantage too. We simply just don't know enough about genetics to say only so-so or certain individuals can accomplish these physiques... There isn't any protocol or genetic mapping to say, yes you can get there or no you can't ever.. so the limiting factor would be the time it takes. Some guys just recover faster than others, meaning they can get to the main goal quicker than others. My opinion is the only constraints on genetics is time.. if you did everything he did to the tea I bet you'd be pretty darn close, that's including the time it took. Definitely not fact statements just opinion
Ok that's understandable. Look make no mistake I'm not saying genetics is everything because other factors come into the whole equation, but man when you have a genetically blessed guy like Ronnie who busts his ass in the gym, who eats tons of food, this is the result man. There are other bodybuilders who train just as hard and eat just as much who don't look close to Ronnie. I'm just using Ronnie as an example as I think Flex Wheeler had the best genetics ever and even Ronnie admitted that. The thing is Ronnie also said that he out worked Flex. So that tells me genetics without a good work ethic can only get us so far just like Flex's case. It was well known that he didn't work as hard as others in the gym. My point is we can not ignore genetics like I've seen some do.
Do their superb genetics keep them from dying so young?
None of us that aren't competing will really know what the brink of our genetic potential could be with the inclusion of massive amounts of gear and time put into the lifestyle. These guys make money from their bodies and once that ball starts rolling. My point is, don't ever limit yourself like that mentally. Unless you have surefire proof that no matter what you do or how much gear you eat or how much you left or how much time you put into it that you'll never ever get to the next level goal like these guys. I just can't say that but, genetics is a key factor, but not the only factor. I think it's equally tied with many other factors lol
Do their superb genetics keep them from dying so young?
None of us that aren't competing will really know what the brink of our genetic potential could be with the inclusion of massive amounts of gear and time put into the lifestyle. These guys make money from their bodies and once that ball starts rolling. My point is, don't ever limit yourself like that mentally. Unless you have surefire proof that no matter what you do or how much gear you eat or how much you left or how much time you put into it that you'll never ever get to the next level goal like these guys. I just can't say that. It's a good topic and this is just my personal point of view, not arguing because I don't have the facts to make this argument I don't think anybody does, I'll try to spell it out a little further tho. And yes genetics absolutely do play a role that's a given, is it the leading or only factor that sets them apart from the rest? They are dying young, wouldn't their supposed God like genetics protect them also? But I'll say it again
Death doesn't know the difference between Super genetics and poor genetics. Death couldn't care less. But it's unfortunate that dudes have passed away.
I got ya and I see where you're going and I appreciate that. I'm confident, as we all should be but I tend to see things for how they are rather than how they should be. I know my strengths and weaknesses so it's not like I'm looking down on myself. I won't say too much because of privacy issues but when you see certain things and are around certain things it changes your mindset a bit. I know that doesn't make sense but hard to explain. Just know I don't look down on myself so don't think that. I know exactly my strengths and I try to get folks to embrace their strengths or find out what those strengths are at least. Know your body also. Know what it likes and don't like. That will go a long way man.
Fair enough bro, good points. What separates them from your average, is the MASSIVE amounts of gear they use. If it's all just about genetics then why do they need to take so much to even step on stage. Could they use what the average bodybuilder is using, and just be huge?
We don't know the potential of a lot of people with their unique genetics because they're not using massive amounts of gear. I think anyone who wants to run that gamble can sure have a chance to compete with them too a degree. If genetics were the main driving factors, then why are they dying so young? Couldn't they get above the rest of the pack and not use massive amounts of gear simply because of their genetics. We just don't see many people running the risk* they take and using massive amounts of gear for a very long period of time. Can't ignore that point. I think genetics definitely do play a part I just don't think it's a either you've got them, or you don't at all situation. I simply think it's a combination of good genetics and a massive amount of gear and getting to the goal markers quicker than the others can due to more efficient recovery factors or protein conversion/utilization. I think a lot of people can get there, it just might take more time, way more gear, more food, and more reps. Is everyone willing to put themselves through such enormous abuse to compete, that's where the mental part comes in. Are these dudes a little more tapped in some way than your average bodybuilder, I tend to think yes. Genetics most definitely play their part I think most of us know this, that's a given. I'm just trying to figure out what the point of the post is really lol. Setting the bar higher and higher is what these guys do, and they do that for a living. I don't think that's a goal that most of us here have anyhow. Is it respectable? Yes, the dedication and perseverance sure is. But to think most guys are pissing in the wind is a blanket statement. They all started somewhere, they didn't just wake up a huge. If you look at pictures from before they ever worked out, it would be tough to say yep they have the genetics or not. That's all my point is, on top of good or decent genetics, like a lot of us here have. There's other factors just as important. It's hard to really say because most of us just aren't willing to go to those extreme lengths ya know. And if it is all just genetics then I think that these top bodybuilders would know that, and use moderate amounts of gear and not be dying so young... Just trying to make a couple points bro, decent topic btw. And yes Africans have the highest variation of genes, which could lead to higher potentials, but what are these potentials. We simply don't know enough about genetics to map a person and say yep they are capable of to step on stage one day or nope they are not ever. Most of us aren't willing to follow those exact footsteps that these guys took, that's all my point is
Thats cool, you made your points but we aren't connecting on some of them. You say that genetics is a given well apparently it's not a given, why do you think I posted this lol? C'mon now. And no one is saying that folks are pissing in the wind. My point is my point. Just like the gentleman at the top clearly explained, genetics are important. To say that all we have to do is work our asses off then we all can look like Ronnie Coleman is a bogus statement man. Everyone won't look like him lol. Some may come close though. And you mention drugs being the main factor, again I have to disagree. Some of those genetically blessed guys don't have to use grams on top of grams. Now some do use alot but to say all do isn't true. Now of course if they're pros they'll use what most pros use as far as dosages. So on that we just have to agree to disagree. To me it isn't that hard to figure out, I mean I'm no expert at who will have supreme genetics but if someone's parents, like Ronnie's mom looks like that then we can assume that Ronnie will have good genetics and that's exactly the case for he and his sister. It's rocket science but it isn't rocket science man. Alot of it is plain common sense ya know? We all have something special about us, but there are those that have more things special about them. I cannot train all day long for the 100 meters and think I'll beat Usain Bolt in the 100 meters, not gonna happen bossman. And I was a 100 meter sprinter with good speed. Negative!
I can see what you're saying, but from the title of your post, you make it seem like genetics is the top factor for only reason these guys got to where they were. Are you able to tell by looking at them before they ever started working out that yep this guy has the golden ticket within his DNA code or not? That's my point. Genetics are equally as important as many other factors, I think that's the best blanket statement I can make on the topic sorry to indulge so much on it. Do any of us even want to look like these guys? No. Most of us don't or could care less. And what about to do to go to massive transformations, from being a toothpick or a giant blob, and then get ripped. I don't think most of us will ever know what the true potential of our genetics could be unless we followed in the footsteps of these guys exactly. I'm not here to make an argument on something I know nothing about lol I'm not a geneticist. I think the topic is partial to guys who have put in massive amounts of work and time and food and lifting. And a good point is not many people are admiring them for dying so young, and or want to even look like that. Ya know. It's a professional sport, based on profession. Do genetics play a role yes obviously. Is it the only key or else we shouldn't bother? No. Most of us don't have the same goals I just think the topic is pointless. If we could all just look at our mom and say yep I'm going to be fat later in life or yep I'm going to be ripped. That's just assaningn and or naive. Not trying to bash, it sucks these guys are dying so young. Some genetics huh. Are they dying because they're superb genetics can't handle it? Or are they dying from the extreme abuse of gear. Something to think about. Can certain genes be unlocked or activated, I just don't know enough on the topic to really say this or that for certain. But this is my opinion, have a good day brotha, got to roll
But if you were to ask these guys do you base all of your success on what was already handed to you in life before you ever started working out. I think they would say there are many other factors that are above that or equally tied to the genetics gifted. I don't think many guys would stand up and say yep I won the title because I'm just genetically or naturally better than the next guy. The key I think is taking all factors into consideration that's all. Can't just put all the eggs in one basket is all the point I'm trying to make. Also that it is truly a shame that these Greek god genetically gifted superheroes are dying so young... They ain't dying because they're genetic can't handle it they are dying from a massive amounts of gear. Period
Well your entitled to your opinion but the topic isn't pointless..maybe pointless for you lol. Nothing naive about looking at Ronnie's mom and Aunts and saying damn that's where he gets alot of his physique from. Common sense man.
He definitely did not just get his physique from his mom lmao!!!
There's so much more to it than that and that is all I'm saying okay man I can't argue. It's like beating a dead horse.
Let's see his physique before bodybuilding. And then make a judgment call on if he will ever step on stage, due to how his mom looks lol
I'm just making a very simple observation. I am asking what is your point of creating a thread that saying "genetics is the key" as if there's only one key that opens that door. I'm glad to see the title of the thread changed it makes much more sense now that is all bro. Simple. Not complicated
Lol well then quit arguing. If you don't believe then you don't believe lol
Yeah I can probably change the title, give me some ideas if you want to. The point was that we shouldn't rely on so much of gear and downplay hard work, diet and genetics. That's what I'm sticking to man because that's the truth. I tried to be clear in this post, the focus shouldn't be on Ronnie or looking like Ronnie but on the fact that using insane high amounts of gear isn't always the answer. My main target were newbies. There are pieces to the puzzle, not one big piece. And genetics is one important piece of that puzzle.
Dude I totally see that, and it's okay I'm just giving a counter argument, I'm definitely not trying to encourage newbies to use massive amounts of gear lol. Your spot on with what you're saying, everybody starts somewhere, whether it takes some person more time to gain or to recover, these are the limits. I think with massive amounts of gh use and hyperplasia, a lot of dudes could get there, but do they want to and do they want to roll the dice with their health for a sport they're not making money on. But I just can't tell a person you'll never get there no matter what. I can't be that judge. And it's not fair. Everybody's genetics are unique. These top competitors, yes they might have some Gene markers that are shared but, just like plants certain environmental factors are going to be the driving force on what jeans are activated and or expressed. If the title said extremely hard work perseverance and genetics, then yes I would tend to agree. But I couldn't just say the only or only reason these guys got there is due to their genetics and only that.. I just can't. Totally opinion based though. And I most certainly cannot say to a person you shouldn't be using that much gear because you don't have the genetics to do so... I'm not a robot that can read the future you know lol. Just like everything in life we all start somewhere or started somewhere. It's The balancing act, what are you willing to risk in order to see your true genetic potential with the inclusion of massive amounts of gear. Simple
I hear ya. Again not sure you are understanding me. No one is saying you won't get there. What I'm saying is your genetics will play an important part in you getting there along with hard work and other things obviously. Insane high gear dosages is NOT the answer without hard work, diet ,good genetics etc. It all goes together. So that's as clear as I can be on that. Not like I said this person won't make it or that person won't make it...lol man that totally misses the point of this whole thing. Nothing wrong with presenting other side of argument. But focus is on the newbies.
Now I'm confused lol. The title clearly states genetics is the key. Then has a picture of Ronnie Coleman
Did I miss something?
Good genetics, insane amounts of gear, lots of hard work. I think I was pretty clear on that like over and over lol what's obvious bro is that genetics definitely do play a part. I think most of us here know that. Completely a given. If a person has a goal I can't be the one to say you'll never get there unless you have genetics like Ronnie Coleman or flex wheeler. I just can't say that. Pretty prudent point and clear as day. I don't try to back pedal or spin it any other way. Thats all
So what exactly is your point again??
Do these newbies have what it takes? Who knows. I could care less. I focus on my own. And if you're somehow in the league of Ronnie Coleman and flex wheeler and are schooling us. My apologies as I bow down LOL
Scratch that. I see you change the title. From genetics being "the key". As if it was the only Factor..Good move. There are several keys on that ring. That was my whole entire point sorry I had to drive it home. Not all of us are as stubborn to our beliefs. I can sure be hard-headed though lol
Again this post is for the newbies so it's not a given.You can disagree with me man and I can disagree with you. But everything should be clear as day now. My stance is my stance.
Whos spinning anything? Bro the title is changed. I mentioned that to you earlier remember? Yea a picture of Ronnie Coleman and his 70 plus year old mom so I don't know what your missing man. I've addressed what I addressed clearly up top. Not sure why you keep mentioning how you'll never say this person isn't going to be this or that...I've already addressed that man. I was clear on that so yea now you got me confused. My stance is clear man.
I don't know I guess I'm very hard headed my bad. If these other top-tier body builders have moms that look just like Ronnie Coleman's then I guess I'm just a complete idiot..lol
It's all genetics, that's the key right there. Nothing more nothing less nothing else. I just don't agree. I took it wrong I guess. But, I actually haven't changed my stance at all fwiw not trying to be passive aggressive in my replies. I would just hope that my opinion would be taken into light as accepted as such. An opinion. How many times do I have to say that? Not argued constantly. Arguing a person's personal opinion is fruitless. That is all. I'm not arguing with myself over this lol my stance has stayed the same I'm not the one changing a title to a thread. OK then bro thanks
So after reading the top you still think this post is about all genetics right? Wasn't you the one who asked me to change the title? So yeah guess we both are confused now. The title now is appropriate, it wasn't then. That's life. And yeah no need for you to argue. Everything should be clear. My stance is my stance. Later