Personal Opinions Desired.
Evening Gents,
New to researching the SARM world and am interesting in giving a cycle a whirl. Just trying to gather some personal opinions for those who have the experience with these that I don't.
A few that have intrigued me were, Ostarine, GW, RAD, & Laxogenin. I'm looking for some advice on a stack. From what I've read it'd basically be couner-productive and a waste of money to put Ostarine & RAD together so what would you recommend there? What are thoughts on Laxogenin? Seems interesting, would it be a good fit into a stack such as Ostarine and GW, or should it be ran seperately? I mean does anyone have experience with this/ does the lax seem legit?
Also, some sources I've noticed come in both liquid or capsules.. Preference there?
Lastly, pre-puberty gyno was removed about a year ago so that's obviously a concern of mine.
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I ran Ostarine and while on it, I felt great. I could feel a difference in my joints - perhaps placebo - but whatever you do, don't skip PCT. Even with it, I had trouble recovering. I ran Nolva 40/40/20/20 and still took another couple months to get back to normal. Was very sluggish and the twig was a bit limp during that time.
Gotcha.. But I was reading this group and also saw you posted noting an oral cycle shut you down hard. Were you coming off this cycle when running ostarine? Or after you were recovered later in the future you ran it as a stand alone?
Yep, it was shortly after (~2 months) an oral cycle that I then ran Ostarine alone. I'm sure I hadn't fully recovered from the oral by then, and so adding Ostarine in just tanked me. Just silly on my part.
I wish I had been smart enough to get bloods to confirm levels both pre and post, but of course I didn't because reasons :S
You ran an oral only cycle and then 2 mo later ran an osta cycle, then you ran a nolva only pct???
You did this all wrong to begin with. Oral only cycle is a waste and a possible detriment to your health. I'm guessing you didn't run a real pct after this? Then you spend 2 mo shutdown and then go into an ostarine cycle. Mild, yes, but will also shut down with prolonged use. Then you do a 4 wk nolva only pct.
Nolva does not restart your hpta. It is in the pct to block estrogen from binding to your mammaries, keeping you from getting little girl boobies. It takes a very long time for your system to bounce back on its own, if it even will. Many times, it won't.
Not trying to be a jerk, but you could end up doing irreparable damage to yourself If not careful. Spend a little time researching a proper beginner cycle and pct.
Yep, I am very aware of that now. What can I say. I trusted the advice of some guys who were bigger than me. How could they be wrong, right?
Can agree with @BoMan. I used Ostarine (5-10mg/ed) during PCT of a stronger SARM cycle. Together with five weeks Tamoxifene, the LH and FSH (and therefore the sexual hormones) reached fast the old values.
I used several SARM several times, soon. But let me loose a few words about Laxogenin. I honestly didn't used it but it's known for decades. Why is it now so hyped? The reviews are - in my eyes - not confident enough. In theory, Laxogenin is interesting, indeed. But in praxis it has been showed, that it's not that effective as thought. I would safe the money for food or supps, but it's up to you.
Liquid or caps... it doesn't matter, honestly. The bioavailability should be the same. Maybe you could reach some percent points more with a transport substance like DMSO. I'm using liquids only, but also saw comparable gains with capsules or tablets.
Gyno won't be a big problem while using SARM. Of course, there is always the androgenic risk but there should be no conversion to E2. Nevertheless, you sould always keep an AI and a SERM on hands - you never know, if the product is contaminated with substances, you wouldn't use if you would know.
I'm actually using RAD-140, but it's too early to tell something about that. I'm using beside MK-677 and have nice pumps, increased energy and very high regeneration rate, but which comes mostly from MK-677.
LGD-4033 is nice indeed, together with S-4 I got an insane increase in strength. But the S-4 has some nasty side effects, the higher the dosage is.
Ostarine is maybe the mildest substance of the known SARM class. For PCT probably interesting, but in lower dosage than normally during cycles.
GW-501516 is outstanding, too. Could improve the bad cholesterole values while using LGD-5033 (now VK-5211) (and S-4). But keep in mind, that it has shown, that AICAR and GW-501516 increase Myostatine, which is normally not wished by bodybuilders. How much this rate is, I can't say.
But together with an anabolic, which decreases the myostatine levels itself, this shouldn't be a problem.
Thank you and @BoMan for your responses.
So your experience with Ostarine was mainly used in Pct, what was the stronger sarm cycle you used if you don't mind me asking.
S4 does honestly tweak me out a bit with the side effects reported, mainly the vision and hair loss I've seen also reported.
I guess I'm looking for a nice some what mild-medium combo somewhat like your Rad and Mk cycle. Would you tlike commend Ostarine in place of Rad? I guess as you said, it's too early to tell with the Rad.
You are welcome.
I used Ostarine several times only (and once together with S-4), once as part as a PCT and once as anti-catabolic component (this was a timeframe of nearly four weeks, in which I couldn't train or eat properly because of the hard working condition, but tried to keep the loss as low as possible).
The cycle contained MK-677 (25mg/ed, was too much, 12.5mg/ed are nice enough), LGD-4033 (8-10mg/ed), S-4 (60-70mg/ed) and some GW-501516 (started in the last third of the cycle and over the PCT, 10-15mg/ed).
Was a very nice stack, gained 8kg of which 3kg were water (of MK-677). Holdable 5kg after a nearly three-month cycle isn't that bad at all. But unfortunately, also this gets lost, if you quit eating and training, no illusions haha
The side effects of S-4 were very odd: after waking up I had some black "moles" in the vision (not in the eye). When looking in light (e.g. mobile phone display), the moles went away and I hadn't a problem during the day. During summer it's a bit annoying when you walk from bright places into dark, vice versa.
During wintertime I had the worst experiences: driving a car was dangerous as hell, because it was already dark at 4p.m. Also had problems to walk on a pathway without lights.
Nevertheless, vascularity and the strenght were crazy, especially on 70mg/ed. I split the intake in 4h-time periods, morning, pre-workout, in the evening. When taken right before bed, the vision side effects were much harsher than taken in the afternoon.
Also, the more splits I had during the day (experimented from one intake to up to six intakes every day), the longer was the side-effect-free time. Instead of getting these vision side effects with low intakes per day after 10 days, the side effects came after nearly 17 days with higher intake ratios.
The actual cycle I'm using starts with RAD-140 (first five weeks) and MK-677 (until PCT). I will kick RAD-140 out after five weeks and start taking LGD-4033 (5mg/ed, because of the longer half life as a basis) and YK-11 with 5mg/ed (three intakes per day) and finish the cycle with them.
Not a wise choice, when looking for "safe" components. I'm monitoring the stuff with bloods works, so at least I will know what happens on the measurable factors.
RAD-140 is interesting indeed, to reduce androgenic effects from e.g. Testosterone. Taken with Ostarine, you will have a stack of high anabolic rate and lower androgenic effect. Could be a good cycle, I was also thinking a lot of this. I'll use this definitely, maybe already in winter together with MK-677.
Depending on your age and your aims, Ostarine and MK-677 already are a dream-stack. Imagine the effect on elder people.
Ostarine vs. RAD-140:
Ostarine: Phase III, "safer", cholesterole values could decrease, liver toxicity is low (that makes a 12 week cycle possible), nice gains (but don't expect too much), nice pumps, no on-feelin, dosage depending you won't get a shutdown
RAD-140: Phase 0 (Phase I planned, but not started yet), unknown on different blood panel factors, liver toxicity unknown, could be low to moderate, gains should be higher than on Ostarine, lethargy possible to possible shutdown
But always keep a SERM and an AI on hands. Every single time.
In case of MK-677 you want maybe monitor your prolactine values as well.
Great stuff thanks. How you feeling these past couple days with what you're on?
Technically Ostatine is legal yes? I've seen some supplements on nonsense websites including them in their products.
Reason I ask is with regards to employment random checks. I understand most say they're not looking for that but I'm on an ambulance and one lady recommended we even write down if we take creatine cause that could pop... I was like uh... Isn't creatine natural? Not that we'd get fired for it but putting it down would look better in case something was to pop. Of course I wrote a vague "Creatine/workout supplements"..
Nearly two weeks on RAD-140 and MK-677. Very nice up to now, I feel mainly the MK-677. The RAD-140 is relatively smooth (up to now). Maybe that will change sometime.
Theoretically, Ostarine (as MK-2866) is patented by the issuer (GTx inc.). I don't know the legal situation in the USA honestly, I'm not living there. In UK for example (also not my home country), the offering of research chemicals for research purposes is allowed. There are also a lot of (official) companies like Sigma Aldrich, wich are selling e.g. MK-677 (of course officially testet and 99.9% pharma quality guaranteed). But as a private person, you will not be able to buy this stuff.
Depending where you live, there are a lot of different laws. In the german-speaking parts of Europe for exapmle, it is allowed to have 3mg/ed/person (that means 90mg per person per month) for the own consumption. Of course, with the available products you are exceed this amount by far. But theoretically spoken, it would be allowed.
They will probably make a drug test, but not a specific doping test. Creatine itself won't pop up on the doping screen. They can measure the creatine via the creatinine in the blood. If it's high, the probability is high that you are eating a lot of red meat or takting creatine as a supplement. Just say, you are high amount of meat (or taking creatine, whatever you prefer).
If they will measure the sexual hormones too, they will have a further overview about the current situation. If you would taking exogenous testosterone, the testosterone level would be very, very high (out of the range). They will guess, you are abusing testosterone.
Normally, they are focussed on testosterone values (when looking for doping stuff). Ostarine for example will decrease - depending of the dosage - the total testosterone value, but the free testosterone value will be the same. The ratio from free to total will improve.
The HTPA will - dpending of the doage - receive a moderate hit, but no shutdown. They have to test specifically on Ostarine, which is a very very small probability.
Therefore, don't be too nervous about that. You made a good choice with "workout supplements". In the worst case, that your bloods would be catastrophic, you could say, that the stuff you are taking could be contamined with other substances.
With regards to the testing my company would normally perform would be a urine test. Maybe in a rare scenario it'd be blood work but I highly doubt a urine test would show GW50156 or Ostarine. Although adderall would pop up.. Am I assuming too much safety I don't know haha I guess I'm just confused what'd pop and what wouldn't.
But with regards to the test Levels I completely understand that.
I guess in your opinion what would be your two suggestions. Clearly there's no comparison to the real deal.. But your opinions for some endurance and mild gains
I've done a lot of experimenting with these compounds so I'll give you my honest opinion.
Ostarine: This minimally suppresses natural hormone production, so this compound in my opinion should be used during a PCT from an AAS cycle and while not on AAS. In my personal experience Ostarine does make a difference and will help keep any muscle gains, or help speed up recovery time while not a cycle a bit.
GW: this is not really a "sarm" but it is a good compound for anyone looking to increase cardio. It will help your body be more efficient during cardio and will help you burn fat while doing cardio, but won't do much if you take it and don't do cardio. I've used this compound during a cut and it definitely helped step my cardio productivity up.
Laxogenin: There's not much scientific data for this. Personal reports from people who have used it seem to find this compound useful. I have not tried it, but will be soon. I am going to invest in a compound that has Laxogenin and Epicatechin. Epicatechin does have some scientific studies behind it. I'd use this compound like Ostarine. Lax and Epi are both plant based and non-hormonal so they will not hinder natural hormone production and would be best used off cycle or PCT.
Rad: This compound seems to suppress natural test production and though I have not used RAD myself, I have used LGD on a solo run and after 6 weeks my natural testosterone production had diminished enough to where I was experiencing a lot of lethargy. I would assume this will be a side effect with RAD, where it will cause lethargy from test suppression. Rad seems to be very beneficial on a cycle of AAS though because it will help protect against prostate issues and other androgenic side effects.
My two cents, Ostarine, Lax, and GW are good. But these compounds don't require a PCT. the hassle of going through a full PCT with LGD wasn't really worth it, though I made some nice gains. If I'm going to endure a PCT it's going to be after an AAS cycle.