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Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:51
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+ 7 EQ only cycle begins
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Tomorrow will start my 1st day of running strictly EQ @350 a week. I will not be adding any other compound to the mix not even test e or c. Why 350 and not 400 or 600 or 800? From a lot of my research it seems the lower dose is perfectly fine as I am not looking to bulk up or cut myself to death. I am thinking of running it for about 14 weeks and frontloading 600 for 2 weeks to get me going. I have read so may "stories" about no change in libido or strength or gains for that matter. I am curious by nature and in order to destroy any myths I am guinea pigging myself to it. I will keep everyone posted and start a cycle log tomorrow night after 1st inject. Wish me luck!
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AnonAfter looking back on the posts made on this page really make me proud that you had the courage to make this post. Sometimes I can come off like a bully and I apologize if I came of that way. You didn't back down and remained polite and respectful. In return brother I offer any support I can give. I'm not a dr or a scientist but ive run lots of EQ before and have a good idea about aromatization and Ancillary use. Whatever I can do to support you I'm happy to help. Best of luck on this cycle.
your knowledge here on other posts has helped me from making some bad mistakes so for that alone i would never "disrespect my elder." I always look forward to your responses in threads because you take experience and apply it and help some, and but hurt others. Thanks is all I can say.
its been awhile since I was researching lots of cycles, a few years now but this cycle I have read about several times and also wondered about the possibilities but i could never do it as im TRT. Alot of other sites talk about some weird cycles that we would never preach or encourage here on eroids, and for the most part im glad, but it also puts us at times in a bubble of staying safe and not outside the box. this is a cycle that I personally would try if I were not TRT, worst case scenario you start feeling like crap at some point of the cycle and add a dose of test, not that big of a deal.
Just want to chime in here. I do not agree with this particular "experiment" because I do not think it will provide anything of credence to the community. What you are doing will not "destroy any myths" but will only be the experience of a single member. This is by no means a "scientific experiment" for there is no control group, no team of knowledgeable scientific staff, no extensive daily blood tests to gauge fluxuations throughout the entire body... just a simple blood panel to go by... a tad irresponsible (and maybe a bit grandiose) so at the end of the day it gets lumped into the category of "stories" that you have read
My .02
I agree with almost everything that you are saying. And although this by no means constitutes a scientific study I do think that it provides a data point. And the more data points we get the more we can ascertain until actual scientific studies are done. You have to start somewhere and unfortunately with EQ this is all we got.
So I do not think that this should be regarded as a scientific study nor should it dictate how people proceed with AAS but it will provide insight for more of the advanced users in the community Who are looking for additional data points to develop and fine-tune their knowledge base. And based on that fact I think it has merit.
Is there a way we could move this to a invite only group or something? I would feel comfortable doing that as I don't want any eager beavers thinking this is a standard protocol. I would HATE to have to redo everything again and all the posts from our members.
Hopefully this will straighten things a bit I AM NOT DOING THIS TO GET BIG LIKE AHHHNOLD. I am happy with my body for the most part and I am doing this to harden and lean what I already have. Like I said to WHYNOT if getting big was my goal then why am I wasting my time with this "inferior" compound? That's the key here that everyone is fkn skipping right over. This is not a game. Why is under 400 a waste? "well grygst72, it's a waste because it is so weak and you need 1000mg to get big and strong." Big and strong; everyone's definition of the 2 will never be the same. In my eyes I am big and I am strong, I don't need enough of this to kill a horse to get my results and that is what I am trying to achieve for MYSELF.
read this exerpt from http://www.geocities.ws/Colosseum/Dome/8412/products/equipoiseiii50.htm
Some bodybuilders had generally claimed that the administration of Equipoise had been very effective for “cutting”, which had been of course. very beneficial prior to contest preparation. These cutting effects had often been further amplified when Equipoise had been stacked with a low androgen such as Primobolan. For this reason, bodybuilders who had also been dieting, had also frequently combined Equipoise with Winstrol Depot (currently, not available in Mexico), and still had experienced a dramatic increase in muscle hardness.
However, if Equipoise had been used in combination with Testosterone. it had generally had proven to have further enhanced the strength increases dramatically. Therefore, many athletes had reported that the administration of Equipoise had produced consistently good results, with few associated side effects.
In most of the general studies there has been no mention of simple test being used such as E or C. It's always been stacked with weak ones like Primo; that aggrevates DHT levels; Winstrol; another cutter that has mild properties Look at this exerpt:
Males:
For most male athletes, the weekly dosage of Equipoise had generally consisted of approximately 6 to 12 ml, or 6 to 12 cc’s (150 to 300 mugs) a week. If the common 25 mgs version which had been found in Mexico had been used, frequent or very voluminous injections had been necessary. Consequently, this often had resulted in inconvenience and painful
injection areas due to the required multiple injections. However, for most male athletes, 2 cc’s (50 mugs) a week, which had been taken every second day, for a total of approximately 6 cc’s per week, appeared to have been sufficient. Advanced and ambitious athletes had often increased their dosages to approximately 2 cc’s (50 mugs) daily, in efforts to have achieved dramatic results.
Dramatic results; I don't give a shit about. Does anyone read what I write or even look at the examples by clicking the hyperlinks?
Here is my personal view on the subject after years of hands-on experience. It is always a good idea to incorporate testosterone into every cycle at least at a TRT level. It has nothing to do with the amount of gains one can make but the overall well-being of the user. Remember testosterone doesn't just play a key role in muscle building but in a whole plethora of things Inside the body. That is the same reason you should use hCG on cycle, you don't just have LH receptors in your testes they are found all over the body.
Having stated the above. I think that you can run test free cycles and have amazing results doing so. I have done this and have coached many through the process. But remember that good cycle results don't mean optimal health or well-being (It may, but not necessarily do the 2 correlate, Just look at your typical Tren cycle). Having said that if you are running a test free cycle you need to make sure that the amount of androgens is still relatively high. If there is sufficient androgenic components to the cycle the user will be fine. In this particular case I don't think EQ at 350 mg will provide enough androgens. The bare-bones minimum I would have to say would be 600 mg and 800 mg would be ideal.
Your theories are based on what? We both know only 1 case was done in humans that was inconclusive and then none were done after that. I like your answers to posts because they contain useful information and get straight to the point; but what I think a lot of people are missing here is that this is not a test to Build a ton of muscle. I believe that is why people are jumping down my throat because they pigeonholed themselves into a belief that test HAS to be done in every cycle without even trying to NOT do it because of internet scares or their own doubts. If getting big was my goal then fuck EQ I would have jumped on the Tren train and not wasted my time with this "useless compound unless you inject a million mg's a week."
I honestly wish people were more like you Whynot where investigations were done and studies were fkn read and not "skimmed to end results." I'm doing this to harden my muscles I already have and to get a better understanding of why these compounds are used. If I add test or an AI or any helpers I am fkn lying and cheating myself. Is 800mg a week good? I'm not sure. Horses are not given that much and they respond like fkn champs at doses less then 500mg every 2 weeks! Are we animals? In a sense of the word we are but we don't weigh 1000 pounds or more so smaller amounts should be optimal when your goal is to harden and lean and not "pack on more size." I am pretty much comfortable at the size I am at which is not big but certainly not small. Their is a psychological addiction in this game that more is better and bigger is better, certainly not the case in my eyes.
Thank you for your compliments. In this particular case it is not really based on scientific fact but based on my 25+ plus years of exposure to AAS and working with countless athletes. So it really amounts to basically nothing more than my observations coupled with deductive reasoning. Unfortunately like you said there is not a lot in the scientific community about EQ.
Now just to clarify, my stance on testosterone being implemented at at least a TRT dosage is not for the muscle building properties that it will exhibit. Let's face it 125 mg ( give or take) is not going to do shit when compared to 800 mg of something weak like Primo ( and yes I have experience with Primo only cycles). My advocacy of it is that it plays other roles in the body that are a lot more important for overall well-being and health, it's not really because you need it to make other compounds work. It's for reasons beyond that.
Now a lot of the sides that people wish to avoid like ED, can be avoided with the omission of testosterone if the overall androgenic component of the cycle is high enough. That was the point that I was trying to make. As you are aware all compounds are both anabolic and androgenic, and the ratios are skewed differently between compounds, so if you take a mildly androgenic compound but raise the overall milligram dosage high enough so that the cumulative effect of the androgens combats some of the side effects associated with lack of testosterone you are pretty much good to go.
So in my opinion 350 mg of EQ is not going to be androgenic enough. Now since you are looking to lean up you should take into consideration that if there is not enough androgen receptor stimulation it becomes almost impossible to lose body fat. This fact is not debatable, what is debatable is whether 350 mg of EQ is enough to accomplish that. Hope this clarifies my stance.
AnonBro welcome to Eroids! Glad members like you are jumping in the forums. Regardless of the results of this experiment this has been a tremendous example of the spectrum of Eroids membership. This thread has opened my eyes to difference of opinion as well as my own close mindedness. That's something I do not ever want to be. This website is all about exploration and shared experiences. So many of the posts in here after combing through them just now make me very proud of Gyrgst72 and every contributor on this page. Hope to see more of your contributions.
Thank you for your kind words. And you are definitely right this forum is a lot more tolerant and open-minded than some of the others. I've always been a little baffled as to why it hasn't caught on as much as some of the others.
Agreed. I will share more information at the beginning of next week on some other findings I am experiencing.
Looking forward to it. The only other point I would make is EQ does not convert to estrogen as aggressive as testosterone but it does convert. At 350 mg I don't think you would need an AI but if you get into the higher dosages I would highly recommend it.
It is pretty cool that you are doing this type of experiment. My only recommendation if you really want to learn something from it and have it be of any value, is to do blood work every two weeks. Bloodwork is really the only way to know what's going on. So the more data points you have the more relevant this experiment becomes and the more you can learn. Also keeping a log of your mood and well-being as well as your overall energy levels will be helpful.
Bloods every 2 weeks were going to be part of my cycle; unfortunately that has been backburned due to my loss of work and even my TRT is going to suffer if I don't get paid soon. My well being is very important, but my family comes 1st and foremost. I will be getting bloods drawn in a few weeks and if I'm getting paid by then it will be on an ongoing basis.
My heart goes out to your situation and I hope that it resolves itself soon. Not to sound insensitive but if you do not have the budget to do this properly and you are on TRT I would make it a priority to make sure you have everything you need for TRT squared away and abandon this experiment until you have the funds.
You are doing something that is outside of the norm, Even if it's not for the sake of the community you still need blood work to make sure you are okay. Just food for thought. I know that it sucks hearing that but unfortunately sometimes we can't control what life throws at us but we can control how we react to it.
I have 50ml's C and 25ml's E to get me through; I have stocked up on Ai's; I have a bottle of TNE; I have 60ml's of prop. I made sure befor starting that fallbacks were readily available ESPECIALLY the TNE lol. I am optimistic at this point that I wil be good; I have 2 more months before the shit hits the fan and I will be rocking by then.
AnonThis makes complete sense. I can rationalize your observations quite easily. Every single EQ I've ever run has started at 600mg minimum and I ended up bumping it to 900mg because 600mg was weak IMO. And I ran it for 20-24 weeks as my best results did not happen until after week 12 and the most dynamic results were around wk16-20. That's when the real magic of EQ happens.
I think there is a lot more to it. I think it is not because EQ is weak it's that it is not very androgenic. As far as the anabolic qualities of it go 350 mg is more then enough to impart a positive effect on Muscle growth. The problem is the lack of androgens. A lot of the side effects as well as a lot of the positive effects of compounds are directly corresponded to the androgenic component of the compound.
I guess if one wanted to be creative enough you could modify your training to make a low Androgenic compound work (This would probably be geared more towards recovery and cutting the Volume of workouts), But why would you want to when there are solutions that are simpler and better.
AnonSo I'm just interested in what the motivation is? Especially being TRT. Another thing is EQ even with a front load the best result IMO are attained around wk 12-20. You'll be getting a couple of weeks of the premium effects. Also I just question the whole point. I do not believe EQ is a compound I would ever associate strength gains with. I'm not trying to knock you I just think you're throwing a mediocre compound to attain strength gains.
I am on your side on this one; it's a compound where little studies if any have been done. I've been researching the effects on horses and the results were always better then expected. So I started researching human use and found so many contradictory posts and answers. So in a sense I figured what the fuck; I'm already shut down; get a blood test halfway through. I WILL be getting bloods drawn halfway through this to make sure I am not on the verge of meltdown. No matter what if and when I know I'm reaching a danger level I will not hesitate to get some fast acting test back in the mix and shut down the cycle. So far nothing bad is happening as far as I can tell; but then again it's only 2 weeks now. Strength and endurance gains were massive on horses and they were only on less then 500mg every 2 weeks per 1000 pounds. So if we base any science on that the typical human does not need 800 every week to get the same enhancement. Although to contradict myself again I am not a horse either lol. Let's just see how well or bad this leads and make our judgements based on that. So far I am optimistic. I promise it will be great but guarantee nothing.
I am NOT getting involved here and this will be my only comment....... i bet money when you have bloods done that your not suppressed badly, your Estro will be lower, and free test will be higher!...... dont ask me how i know this due to this topic being a "hot potato"... i will not respond in open forum.... PM me when you have the results please bro.
P.S. do not run Ai on this experiment it will fuck with the results.
No AI is being run either. When I get the bloods I will post them. On a side note, my acne has cleared up on my back and other tell tale signs of estro are non-existent at the moment.
AnonNobody gets shut down in two weeks nor would anyone get high estro from EQ or testosterone for that matter in two weeks. I'm done here man. Last comments, Ur boasting about something that IMO would not be happening anyway. Aromatizing and high Estro sides do not happen in two weeks. And if they did happen I'd say ur running more than
Just EQ and something short estered. Let's agree to completely not agree any anything that is written on this page.
RustyhookerI ran eq all alone before. No ai at all. Pre-eroids ai came in other forms. No loss of sex. Sex was actually better in that "pump" from rbc will hit all "vascular" areas. Recovery was eady as well. I would not recommend a novice doing it. But I'm going to repeat.
Readers must remember....all bodies can react differently. Dont try it til you have the experience to overcome any deficiencies
AnonI got nothing but love for you and brother Viking but I respectfully disagree with this being promoted. I can't be the only one who thinks promoting cycles with zero test and AI should not be the new standard in these open forums. Can't this be done in a group like the Advanced group where folks can't just log in and read it? IMO this is irresponsible to promote
I see my name mentioned i must respond.... in no way am i promoting anything bro... notice i never returned to the thread i created re-this subject knowing full well it was too"underground" to be an eroids topic.
Like i said higher up this thread i will not respond further on this subject.... but nothing will ever stop me from doing my own experiments with my crew back home, neither will i share any results due to this site not being geared up for this type of stuff YET LOL
AnonAbsolutely brother. You know I'd give you the shirt off of my back. I have your 6 and the 6 of every member of admin. I don't want to be a distraction for anybody. If you don't mind please delete all of my comments on this thread and I give you my word I will not return to this thread. The OP is a respected member here and I apologize to him and everyone who've I have made feel uncomfortable by my posts. I'm a lover and a fighter But this topic is not worth upsetting any of my brothers here. Sincerely bro I apologize I didn't mean to offend or upset a single person.
brother THIS is what we do here... if THIS was a problem then it would have RED INK splashed all over it and probably get locked down...
You did not offend me; if anything you opened my eyes a little more to what this is. I want you in any of my op's because your knowledge is definitely needed. I respect you because I read your posts and you make such solid points that sometimes you leave me scratching my head and asking "how the fuck did you know?" I hope you reconsider deleting your posts.
lol... hey no! im cool with this whole debate brother.... this is what its all about as far as i am concered, if we didnt have debates like this we wouldnt have personalities and would all be doing the same old things............ BORING!
Keep bringin it bro im all in for freedom of speech and beating a problem out!....... thats how the wheel was invented :)))))
With the greatest of respect. You've missed the point. He's not 'promoting' anything. He's just running an experiment on himself and posting the results. He has enough experience to know if it's going wrong. If you disagree, that's fine and you have put your point across.
AnonI get the point. There's not a whole lot I don't get. So according to what ur saying as long as someone has experience and tag something as an experiment it's ok and everyone is supposed to agree? Sorry. I speak my mind and have been very respectful and will never insult or treat anyone with contempt or disrespect. The day a respectful debate is no longer allowed on Eroids is the day it should be shut down for its lost all credibility when that happens. Remember the thought processof this website are that an open forum is called open for a reason. It's open for anyone to post. If opposing thoughts are unwelcome here then like I stated this should be posted in a group with access restricted from opposing thoughts.
I'm not saying that at all bud. I'm just saying this cycle isn't being promoted. That's all. It isn't a cycle I would run. If experienced people can't try new theory's then we wouldn't learn much would we. Good debate though
I'm at a loss for words.
Due to aromatisation being halved or non -existant brother........... good shit.
Im ahead of the game here bro.. i dont sit around talking roids all day i dive in the fkn deep end and experiment.. i put that post up re-EQ and got the sour feeling from it so never returned to the thread..... didnt stop me playing though hahahah
Sweet. I can join the ranks of the leaders and not the followers.
This is interesting , I will be curious to see how you do ! Keep us posted..
I am interested to see how the bloods look. Maybe you could do a couple tests spaced out, say week 8, 12, 16. EQ is in my quiver for the next cycle (April), I am still thinking Test with it, but maybe even run the test at a low dose.
Then again, if you can run EQ and not even completely shutdown....
Edit: Just read my lower post from a week ago, lol. I am OCD!
Thanks for testing this for everyone. Are you going to get bloods 4-6 weeks in to see how shut down you may be? +1
I'm already shut down lol TRT here. I'm going to see about getting a blood privately but the nearest one from me is 2 hours away. If I let my doc do it I'm finished.
Yea, I see that below now. So much for that...
Mighty brave of you to use this cycle to help educate the community. Good luck, I hope it goes well for you.
I hope it goes well too. Although I am sure it will; if it succeeds then we can put to rest the BS about someone saying you have to have test in an EQ cycle.
This has definitely has me intrigued. I will be following this thread. What are your goals for this run. Basically what are the reasons for doing this and what are you hoping to get out of it?
From what I gathered in the Vet perspective is that this was given to horses to give them more endurance; healthier appetite; and more strength. Since so little testing was done on humans or research for that matter noone can truly say what it does for us. What I am looking to get out of it is what role it plays in us as far as gains, strength, and appetite. So by taking it by itself I can judge what changes happen to me as far as my workouts and body is concerned. Only after this will I have enough information to know what other compound can be added to either intensify or compliment it. I have phenylprop on hand in case my dick crashes to be safe but from what I read some people suffer libido loss after 8 weeks and some lose nothing. Some say strength goes up and some say nothing. Well; what do I have to lose? Besides a couple weeks but at least if its a failure I had a chance to give test a break from my system after 3 years. Rusty has already done a cycle like this so I have some support in case things get fucked up. I am hoping for the best, and expecting the worst.
So how often do you plan on having your blood done? This seems like it is necessary rather than going off of just feel. This way you have hard data to go off. I respect the fact that you are doing this research on yourself and I believe it deserves a plus one. Good luck bro
more then likely I'll do a blood halfway through although im not due to see my doc until april. If he asks me why im elevated I have a followup for that.
RustyhookerIve done it successfully. But since everyones different have prop ready. I was horney as Hell and body changes were damn amazing. I added provi in the last few Weeks and the fat dropped. Hope you have as mych fun as i did. I'll be repeating that cycle myself starting april
Just saw you're trt......definitly will be following. Just keep your prop handy since your functioning is different.
I got about 15ml of phenyl prop100 just in case something starts to give; but I think I'll be fine.