posted Fri, 03/07/2014 - 18:07
5146
Keto for muscle/strength gain.
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Has anyone read Jon Anderson's Deepwater? Or followed Marshall White's progress on Deepwater?
The diet calls for 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight and 1 gram of fat with minimal carbs.
These guys are having incredible results getting bigger, stronger and leaner. Has anyone else tried it. It calls for a very large amount of food.
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Keto will kill muscle tissue
I have no experience with that diet in particular but I have been on keto before and I will never ever again do it lol after a few weeks I was feeling so awful and weak though my workouts that my workouts became terrible and finally one day I realized, what's the point of this diet if it makes me so tired and weak I couldn't even lift well? I'd recommended against it bud but hey some guys out there love the keto diet. Just my 2 cents.
Cutting carbs out altogether IMO isn't necessary to keep fat off. Carb cycling is much more effective and less tiring lol
BetterOnTopProtein can be converted to energy just like carbs can be converted into protein. You need carbohydrates to keep insulin levels elevated. Minimal carbs=Low insulin = minimal nutrient delivery= minimal gains. Dont be fooled by the illusion of a cutter. When anyone drops a significant amount of bf keeping the same exact lean body mass they look way bigger than when they were carry that extra fat.
I appreciate the reaponse. I know Jon Anderson (Deepwater) and strongman Marshall White are adding strength and size (definitely strength) doing zero carbs.
BetterOnTopZero carbs? Maybe if hes not human. But if you dont provide your body a sufficient amount of energy. 1 its not going to perform optimally. 2. Its not going to recovery at your desired rate. 3. Your ganna feel like crap.Of course hes gaining size and strength on minimal carbs and in insane amount of protein. Its because hes on steroids. Your body can convery protein into energy but an insane amount of protein is foolish. Thats just unnecessary stress on your kidneys. So unfortunately believing that every gram of protein you consume is going to get used to build muscle just isnt true. Yes protein enriched with bcaas builds muscle but you need a form of energy to build that muscle up. It doesnt happen by black magic unfortunately. Im a personal trainer and have been a competitive bodybuilder since 16. This is my life and its essential I know my shit for professional purposes, but if you choose to listen to strongman meathead its completely up to you haha.
I asked the question because I wanted feedback. My wife is a nutritionist so she knows a thing or two. Carb night has helped people make amazing gains. Look up Jon Anderson and see if he's a typical meathead. Bodybuilders have used keto diets for decades and made gains. Carbs aren't a building block of protein and muscle. Fat can be used as fuel.
BetterOnTopWhat do you need feedback for if your wifes a nutritionist?
She deals with normal people and hospital settings. Not a lot of pro strongmen and powerlifters go to her for advice.
BetterOnTopYou think a strongman is ganna know more about nutrition than a nutritionist? Doesnt make any sense. Regardless I couldnt have simplified the process of building muscle any more. Believing this guys method is just as foolish as believing ronnie coleman got that big by taking muscle tech. Well he got big so you have to believe him right? Good luck wiht your goals.
Kind of like believing a personal trainer over guys that aren't faceless and compete every chance they get. And the steroid thing, aren't we on a site called eroids?
Do some research. A lot of pro bodybuilders were on meat and milk only diets and were huge in their time.
Thanks for having an open mind that led to an open discussion.
I agree more with you here. Fat is the best source of energy. Im also a personal trainer and studied human physiology at University. Carbs are absolutely not needed at all. The only thing that happens when I start increasing carbs is I start storing fat, no noticable increase in muscle gains or recovery time. Yes your muscles will stay fuller looking if you eat carbs but that doesnt really mean anything except on the day of the show or shoot or beach trip or whatever. After the first 2 weeks or so the vast majority of my clients tell me they feel much better and clearer headed on the diet i give them, which is a meat and veggie diet with some eggs, fruit, nuts and cheese mixed in. And oils like olive and coconut oil and butter, yes butter is good for you. Yes like you said most of the old school bodybuilders were on a high protein and fat diet and they were huge. I also deal with normal everyday people. Now dont get ke wrong here, im not saying carbs are evil, but There is absolutely no reason the average mostly sedentary person ever needs to consume even a single gram of carbohydrate from a physiologic standpoint.
BetterOnTopIf fat is the best energy source why are carbohydrates broken down and used for energy before fats? Also why do our muscles store glycogen in our muscles for later use? And the reason your storing fat by increasing carbs is because your caloric intake is above your caloric output. Carbohydrates dont directly repair muscle although they are needed to help repair muscle in an optimal amount of time. Do a test for me bro. I want you to live off olive oil as your fat source for a month with zero carbohydrates. So that means you only get chicken fish steak and eggs and olive oil. Let me know how you feel by week two. After week two of this diet if you feel normal still then go ahead and continue recommended that diet to your clients, but if not please read up more on nutrition before giving nutrition advice to them. Im not bashing you or trying to start an argument im just trying to help you out here.
Thats the diet ive been following for the last 2 years. Best 2 years of my life. With plenty of green veggies of course. I dont wanna argue with you tho. Different strokes for different folks I guess. I know it works for me. The first 2 weeks is actually the hardest. The cravings set in towards the end of week 2, but if you get passed that and get into ketosis, then you feel great and have even energy throughout the day. After a couple months it just seems natural that those are the foods you eat. You forget about starches. I did actually try to reincorporate carbs at the beginning of the EBC and it felt strange to be eating them, like I had to force it lol. Now im back to meat and veggies.
Also remember I deal with mostly sedentary, desk bound obese people. They have different dietary needs than hard charging athletes. If I had an NFL player as a client, then ya, id have him eat carbs.
I agree after the first 2 weeks it feels great. Biggest problem is it can be socially awkward eating out with relatives. More and more info is coming out that promotes carb free lifestyles. Some of those following are top flight athletes.
BetterOnTopI too deal with the general public. I like to use myfitness pal with all my clients. Every single of of my clients are eating carbohydrates throughout the day and all of them that are sticking to the program and doing as I say are losing weight. Losing weight is not about what you eat its more about how much you eat. Its a simple science. Energy in vs energy out. If you burn more energy than you consume than your body has to get it from somewhere. Thus the fat loss. Now dont forget your dealing with the general public. You are right they are all obese lazy fucks. You think these people wanna give up carbohydrates and go straight to cave man dieting? Your statement of having more energy doesnt make sense. Ask any competetive bodybuilder whos given up carbohydrates during their contest prep, they feel like shit because carbs are your first line of energy.
BetterOnTopMan all great points, looks like you know everything you dont need this site looks like your ready to just go pro.