posted Thu, 05/09/2013 - 06:07
2334
Please comment on my cycle
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I plan on running this cycle for 14 weeks
weeks 1-4 50mg of dbol
weeks 1-14 cyp 500mg broke down @ 250mg twice a week
weeks 1-4 test prop 100mg EOD4 Then the last 4 weeks as a taper
of course my standard PCT at the end
my question is would you up the cyp and decrease the propionate or keep it the same, this is my 5th cycle and I am adding the prop for the first time. Or would it be better to add tren ace in the place of the propionate? any comments on this cycle would be greatly appreciated, also just fyi I do not respond well to nandrolone decanoate in the past. thanks in advance
35 male
6feet 4inches
223 pounds
around 13.5 -14% body fat
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carguy78That was my understanding as well, I only use it if its needed. From what I have read estrogen is a critical part in building muscle, and it only becomes a problem if it gets in excess. I assume everyone is different and responds differently to compounds in there body. I have to agree with VIKING about one size fits all approach. but its nice to here every members opinion.
AnonA different angle on Estrogen.
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/estrogen-and-test
AnonWhy is the prop in there ? Esp for 14 weeks . Why dont you try upping the cyp dose a little and only use the prop till things get rolling.
You also didnt mention your AI , or any HCG youve got that covered right ?
OOPS sorry, just noticed you said 1-14 was a typo , you know you can go in and edit that right ?
Read the thread mr jumpy lol
carguy78I do now thanks. as for the HCG yes but my AI I have never suffered the side effect of AAS at the very most a little water and oily skin at the most, but I do keep anastrozole on hand just in case. I have always been lucky with this.
AnonWell now hold on a minute here , I believe an AI does more than just control side effects . Your lucky high estrogen doesnt have obvious sides, but if you are injecting testosterone, then it is at some point converting to estrogen . I believe you can better optimize muscle growth if you keep that estro number down . So even though you dont get puffy nipples, or hold water, you might want to consider the AI as part of the cycle.
Rock the boat time here...... estrogen is an anabolic substance too bro and plays a big part in mass cycles.... I for one am not a believer in running Ai throughout a cycle and prefer to have it "on hand"..... again this is personal choice and the common practice of all the pros and highly successful BBs I know,.. if you choose to run throughout that's YOUR personal choice and I am not knocking it but please lets get away from the "one size fits all mentality"...... comment is not to raise an argument but to allow folks to be more open-minded instead of just making SRCs richer with massive ancillarie sales.
Lemme explain further... caber gives worse sides than any tren or 19 nor.... get my point here bro, use only if really fkn nessacary if at all imo.
What sides does caber give that are worse then Tren Vike?
Well for me personally it creates the worlds worst migraines that lasts for days on end and it hits me with deep anxiety feeling that could be on a par with depression.. that lasts about 3 days after taking it, I get so down its untrue but clears up again after about 3 days, when this happens I quit running it and everything is fine even with sometimes 2grams of tren A/E floating through the system I am fine... only time I use it now is when I run dual 19s tren/deca like right now on comp prep.. heavy winstrol use hits the joints and tendons so I use a low dose of deca just in the background to help with this and there is no way you get away from running tren A at this stage for cutting so hard so that's the dual 19 scenario for me.... again I stress I am not promoting non use of these ancills but I believe they should only be used when really needed if not prone to prolactin issues.
OK I got ya....I thought it wasn't something I have not researched that had long term negative affects. I love Deca as well for it's joint healing properties. I have only done a few tren cycles and must say I don't think my body was in the best possible shape to gain the most benefits from them so I will wait till the time is right. I am getting ready to run an Eq and Sust with Winni finisher cycle soon. The same one we have talked about. Looking forward to seeing how I can tweak my body on sust with these compounds as apposed to regular Test E.
AnonSorry to say this, but deca doesnt really heal anything. Every time I come off deca , about two weeks pass and my pain is all back. Deca only helps while your on it. I wish it did heal :(
Heal was a poor word choice.....alleviate pain and dryness would have been a better way to put it.
AnonWell I only say it because I was really just super sad when my pain came back. I remember thinking I was all better but then after stopping as I said above, it all came back. Now I just keep deca or NPP as part of my constant.
To add to that, I found because I was feeling less pain and my strength goes through the roof on Deca, (it really is one of my favorites), that I was more prone to injury that I did not realize I had until after cycle and the Deca had worn off. I feel your frustration deeply brother. It is a dangerous property when you just ignore common sense on cycle and push past the barriers of your body.
I back this 100% from a personal experience and scientific perspective. Most competitive BB'ers I know have a similar philosophy to Viking on AI's, on hand "if needed". Estrogen not being dropped should theoretically yield more gains, but of course comes hand in hand with an increased risk of gyno. When you know your body as well as someone with Viking's experience does, he knows the compounds that can cause him gyno problems (Deca if I remember our discussions correctly?), minimizing these risks to a very low maybe even negligable level. A risk, none the less, and one that should be taken by those that are very experienced and aware of the consequences.
This isn't something that generally gets put out there, because we worry about someone lacking the experience deciding he needs no AI or caber on his tren run and ends up with a pair of c-cup tits.
Do I run AI's on all cycles - No. When my BF is higher I do, when I'm lean, no unless I have to.
Thanks for the added explanations my brother.... I only type with one finger so I try to cram instant knowledge into a post sometimes missing the deeper explanations until the thread opens up more.... I think I got my point across that I am not promoting zero use of Ai... but to simply use it to disadvantage a good cycle makes no sense to me... maybe this should have been taken to the advanced section.. dunno! its time people read some of our out of the box theories for a change it promotes deeper knowledge imo.
P.S. yes deca was my personal enigma but I have it controlled now with mast and proviron after years of experiments I finally got the dosage protocols spot on lol.
AnonHmmm interesting and yes this may even capsize the boat ;)
Someone had once mentioned to me you werent big on AIs but Im glad to hear it from you instead , and Thank you for taking the time to explain.
So even if a blood test came back with my E2 at say 700, but nipples were good and dick was working, you'd say no AI then ? I thought Estro inhibited new muscle growth ? Isnt that why as men approach middle age and test declines while Estro goes up they get a gut ?
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkYou are spot on regarding regular bloods, as tread puts it "use your bloods as a roadmap" good way of putting it think lol... example.. if my bloods came back with e2 readings like you quote first thing I would do is tear down my current nutrition plan and rebuild it with as little sodium/salt and zero processed foods, fluid intake would be re-assessed quick sharp and now would be the time to brong the "on hand" ancills out to play.... also keeping a sensible BF% year round also helps to ward off e2 conversion in my exp.
Your "gut" comment cracked me up... lol this is my whole reason for giving advice on these boards then folks just don't have that problem... any deposits of adipose tissue (fat) is just like a sponge for aromatisation to occur.
AnonOk now it might be time for me to " throw a wrench in the gears "
1 situation is like you, where lifting and muscle building has been a part of your life as a constant, so I can see how with the chicken or the egg in your case its increased fat causing high estro.
But now what about in my situation, Where I was once lean and fit , but 10 years passed in which I got fat and never worked out. Now Im 42 and struggling like mad to loose any BF, and every time I do I loose muscle with it. So I hop on test, and vioalla just like that I start dropping BF and gaining muscle. So in my case is it the higher estro of a fat 40 yr old that is hindering my fat loss ?
So I guess my question here is do you think your plan to run no AI fits only with a guy like you whos been keeping BF low throughout his life, or would it also apply to a guy like me who didnt enter this game till his 40's and fat with "middle aged happy husband gut " ?
I read that a couple of times to fully get to grips with your situation... if while running test you are dropping fat/increasing muscle.. that's great!.. if diet is fully in check that's even better!.. if you still suffer from aromatisation problems on every single cycle but using Ai stops or lowers it that's great too!... that means you have self-experimented to find what works best for your genetic make-up..... to experiment further you need to try both protocols brother with the compound you know best so you can get accurate results.... please don't take it that I am preaching NO Ai for everyone here lol
carguy78what would you recommend as a dose and how often would you suggest to take it?
AnonWell Id recommend you take a blood test to really measure where youre at, and try to keep the E2 number btween 20 and 40 , lower 20's being optimal. I'll bet even though you arent getting sides your E2 numbers were off the charts.
Try either Aromasin or Arimidex , start off low like .5 mg Arimidex EOD or 12.5 Aromasin EOD
Right now Im taking 12.5 mg aromasin ED
carguy78Sorry I made a typo. test prop 1-4 weeks and at the last 3 weeks sorry for that.
trying to add as much bulk as I can is my goal.
Still no need for a prop and d.bol kicker.... for mass go upto 1gram test cyp with a prop kicker first 4wks at 100mg ED.... then bring the prop taper into play at wk 16 to 20 same dosage.
carguy78That makes sense I will drop the dbol thank you. but as for tren ace you would suggest to wait later down the road? I Have read so much and I get different suggestions from different sites.
Easy answer here instead of saying the same old "youre not ready bs" tren A is ideally suited to cutting cycles bro... in this case it has no place... there is the answer
carguy78Thank you sir I appreciate the straight answer it does make sense now. there is so much BS out there its hard sometimes to get correct information.
Heres a +3 karma to add to your collection purely for having a descent mature attitude bro... good luck with the cycle, hit the protein and carbs hard for mass and keep training intensity high to help keep BF under control as you go ok
carguy78Thank you
Whats the significance of adding prop through the whole cycle? Why not just up the cyp, kick start with prop and tbol? I wouldnt suggest tren ace yet. If youre looking to add another compound, i usually suggest bold cyp. Minimal sides, increased vascularity, & steady gains that stick with you after PCT.
Whats your ultimate goal with this cycle plan please bro?..... I cant just get my head around why you would want to run prop for 14wks .... a ramp and taper yes.. but full term no point.
I would use prop as a taper at the end. There isn't a whole lot if point to running both esters for the whole cycle. Typically you would use prop to kick start while you're waiting for the cyp to kick in (but youre using dbol as a kickstart instead), or use it for two weeks after last cyp pin to avoid test crash before pct.