Forum: First Cycle - Pre Cycle Blood Work - What Do You Think? ~cnqryourbody, 2016

Your Comment

Bulkdaddy
321
10/03/2016 - 08:22

i take back what I said! +1 for the research but you could gain more weight naturally! I would wait till you are heavier to run a cycle! At least wait a year and see where you sit at then. The turtle wins the race...

Owes a Review × 2

Deviss
3
10/02/2016 - 10:09

here is all needs to know and do a beginner

cnqryourbody
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09/20/2016 - 15:59

Just got back from the gym i'm at 12.3% BF.

MedDx
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cnqryourbody
09/21/2016 - 01:41

That's a good BF%.

cnqryourbody
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09/20/2016 - 12:32

bigmurph, Dacky, MedDx I just added all 3 of you as friends.

MedDx
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cnqryourbody
09/21/2016 - 01:37

Accepted. Thanks.

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Makwa
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09/20/2016 - 04:47

+2 for all the research you have put into this
What really has me concerned here is your Low FSH/LH and fairly low T levels for someone your age. What time of day were these bloods pulled? Running a cycle now may completely wreck those numbers and then look where you are going to end up....TRT for life. It is not fun, believe me. I would actually like to see some bloodwork taken first thing in the morning if these weren't.

You are doing the right thing cutting down first and then bulking. You should be able to pack on some quality muscle that way. I would actually recommend that you try bulking naturally first. I think you will be really surprised at the results and you wouldn't have to worry about recovering your HPTA either. At your current stats and where you will be starting with body composition. I could easily see 2+ lbs of lean mass a month being put on naturally. I wouldn't expect you to gain any more lean mass with a cycle at this stage of the game so why risk it. You will put on some additional weight with the cycle but that will be just due to glycogen loading that will disappear after cycle. I don't really envision much more additional lean mass on cycle vs off cycle because you have a lot of natural potential left so why not maximize that first.

cnqryourbody
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Makwa
09/20/2016 - 12:12

Alright since I finally have some time to reply, just got off work I apologize. My bloods were pulled at 10am on Saturday morning, I fasted for 12 hours beforehand. I am going to get my diet together Saturday and start bulking Monday. Going to hold off on the cycle even though I have my Test E and will have my Nolva/Clomid soon. If it goes bad in a year then so be it, fuck it as long as I do this right that's all I care about.

MedDx
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Makwa
09/20/2016 - 05:07

We are on the same page, bro...his fsh/LH has me wondering about what other Hx we need to obtain for full understanding (i.e.) social history, injuries, etc.

I'm with ya on further BW results, too. Plus, maybe even include thyroid and lipid profile...which could give an indication for further interventions elsewhere using peptides...kinda thinking out loud here...

I'm under the impression his recovery would be challenged after cycle...

cnqryourbody
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MedDx
09/20/2016 - 15:58

What other info would you like? I do not mind sharing as long as I know what info I have to give. I work construction 9 hours a day and then hit the gym and train hard. I do 10 min HIIT and 20 min on the bike before starting my workout. I train like a mad man. But injury wise, I've broken my ribs when I was about 12 and then when I was 18 I got into a motorcycle accident and broke my wrist into 3 places. Had surgery and it has been fine ever since. Other than that I have no allergies to food or meds. Does a calorie deficit suppress the HPTA and Thyroid? Think I may have read something about that, not sure if that would affect my levels at all just throwing it out there. Also I do smoke marijuana, could that have anything to do with it? I prefer it over alcohol.

MedDx
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cnqryourbody
09/21/2016 - 02:36

Does a calorie deficit suppress the HPTA and Thyroid?

That's a good question. I know after three days of no food and minimal physical activity our bodies will begin to demineralize. I could see that situation affecting basic body functions, then as a tertiary (secondary to demineralization) result, see changes in the some of the metabolic/hormonal functions, too. Some individuals may respond different to daily calorie deficits, than others.

Marijuana raises AST. Your AST is normal. So, your mj administration, must not be a lot. MJ can have an effect on endocrine system, too, as it does on CV, Pulmonary, Nervous and Renal. Everybody is different. I use MJ and i use low dose test. Surprisingly, my FSH actually increased between last blood draws from 1.5 to 3.2.

Broken bones stress the body for sure. Thanks for the history. Believe it, or not, you're on an awesome path right now and we can help you stay on it and succeed.

Glad you're here. Stay focused, stay strong, stay solid!!!

Dacky
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cnqryourbody
09/21/2016 - 02:23

Fella maybe you may want to consider cutting back on your activity slightly. At the rate you've described your TDEE is going to be exceptionally high which may make building mass pretty challenging. Have you ever tried to calculate your estimated TDEE? If not I suggest you do using a Harris Benedict calculator.

Besides this my suggestion would be to stop doing the HIIT and the bike. Use dynamic movements and stretches to warm up instead. You're at low body fat already so the cardio is juga going to hold you back at this stage. Do a 45 mins walk once a week if you like. I'm not sure how many days a week you lift but you probably need to limit that to 4 times per week or go one day on one day off. Remember you grow outside of the gym from food and rest.

I'm not sure why you are worried about a calorie deficit affecting your thyroid and HTPA. You need to be in a surplus. If the concern is if there is potenial damage from being in a deficit previously then the answer is there are certain metabolic adaptations a that take place when in a sustained calorie deficit. These will see natural testosterone being somewhat supressed as well as your metabolism (including thyroid). The metabolic adaptations are quickly reversed out when going to maintenance or in a surplus.

I hope this helps a bit.

cnqryourbody
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Dacky
09/21/2016 - 02:36

Thank you Dacky, I was just concerned because I was wondering if that could have maybe been a cause of my low test levels and low FSH levels. I lift 6 days a week right now. Was only doing the HIIT and cardio because I wanted to shred some weight but will stop now that I'm going to bulk. Now that I'm at 153 I will have to recalculate my TDEE and macros (will use Harris-benedict calc. Pretty sure I'm gonna follow a diet @magwa posted about. Progression or cyclic diet. I want to gain lean mass and his programs sounds spot on, I would like to at least try one of them or both.

Dacky
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cnqryourbody
09/21/2016 - 02:42

Excellent mate. Drop those training days down and drop the cardio. Following Makwa's plan is perfect right for you in your current state. Make sure you get 8 to 9 hours of rest per night and I have no doubt you will be adding quality mass in no time.

As to your low FSH and Test numbers it's really hard to say. If you had been in a sustained deficit for sometime when you tested then this could be a factor. I would simply give it a few months and once you e added 20lb test again.

Hit me up anytime bro.

MedDx
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cnqryourbody
09/21/2016 - 02:39

Yes calculate it...I used 156 for your weight. Keep in mind, as your weight increases, you should recalculate your BMR for a new TDEE. You're doing good bro!

Dacky
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MedDx
09/21/2016 - 02:47

I think he should apply the highest factor given his activity level. So that gives him a TDEE of 3270 rounding down. At 5k calories he will grow just fine :-)

cnqryourbody
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Dacky
09/21/2016 - 15:26

Lol so should I eat 5K cals or should I do the progression Makwa talked about? I can do the traditional bulk/cut if you think that's best. I would probably start with 4K cals if that's alright.

Week 1 TDEE (3270 cal)
Week 2 3270 + 250 = 3520 cal/day
Week 3 3270 + 500 = 3770 cal/day
Week 4 3270 + 750 = 4020 cal/day
Week 5 recalculate TDEE
week 6 New TDEE + 250 cal/day
Week 7 New TDEE + 500/day
etc....

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Makwa
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cnqryourbody
09/21/2016 - 15:37

2K over your TDEE would be too much. You would definitely grow but I don't think you would be pleased with the results.

cnqryourbody
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Makwa
09/21/2016 - 15:56

That's what I was thinking. I'm going to use your plan. I'm going to recalculate my TDEE and write my diet out then post it here for more feedback. Would love to hear your feedback on it. Thanks for the help

Dacky
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cnqryourbody
09/21/2016 - 20:33

Yes sorrry for the confusion. I 100% agree with Makwa. It would be foolish to simply increase to 2000 over maintenance. You will need to build to there. I was merely trying to give you some insight as to how you could realistically estimate you're maintenance TDEE. Lets see what you put together.

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Makwa
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cnqryourbody
09/21/2016 - 15:57

Put it up and lets see what you got.

cnqryourbody
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Makwa
09/23/2016 - 05:51

Here's the first two weeks before I continue on with the last 2, after I gain weight on the final weekend of my first months bulk I will recalculate the #'s and write the diet out for the following month. Just want to make sure i'm on a solid start before I continue..

Bulking Diet (154lbs start)

English BMR Formula
Men: BMR = 66 + ( 6.23 x weight in pounds ) + ( 12.7 x height in inches ) - ( 6.8 x age in year )

66 + (6.23 x 154) + (12.7 x 66) – (6.8 x 25)

66 + 959.42 + 838.2 – 170 = 1,693.62

Harris Benedict Formula
• Extra active (very hard exercise & physical job) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.9

1,693.62 x 1.9 = 3,217.878 or 3,218 calories to maintain current weight.

Week 1 (maintenance)

Meal 2: 9am
1 oz almonds Blue Diamond (28g) | 160 calories | 14g fat | 6g carbs | 6g protein

Post Workout
1 scoop GS EMC Whey | 130 calories | 1.5g fat | 4g carbs| 24g protein

Meal 7: 10:30pm
Chobani NF Plain Greek Yogurt (150g) | 90 calories | 0g fat | 7g carbs | 15g protein

3,227 Calories (9 cals over) | 128.5 g fat | 238g carbs | 289g protein

Week 1 TDEE (3,218 calories)
Week 2 3218 + 250 = 3,468 cal/day
Week 3 3218 + 500 = 3,718 cal/day
Week 4 3218 + 750 = 4,968 cal/day
Week 5 recalculate TDEE
Week 6 New TDEE + 250 cal/day
Week 7 New TDEE + 500/day

Post Workout
1 scoop GS EMC Whey | 130 calories | 1.5g fat | 4g carbs| 24g protein

3,479 calories (2 over 250cal increase) | 131g fat | 279g carbs | 306g protein

I have the luxury of being able to eat the same things and not get sick of them. I just prepare them differently each time. First two weeks i'll have steak and eggs for breakfast with my oats etc. then the next two weeks i'll throw in two tortillas for more cals and make 2 steak/egg breakfast burrito type deals etc. Makes everything more convenient for me personally.

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Makwa
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cnqryourbody
09/23/2016 - 06:19

You need to restructure your macros. Your pro/carb/fat ratios are all over the place from meal to meal. You need to even those up a bit. That will help with energy levels and cortisol management. Structure your meals so that each meal has the following ratios 30/40/30 (P/C/F). The proper ratio for each of your meals assuming 7meals/snacks would be 35g P, 46g carbs and 15 grams of fat based upon your week 1 maintenance level cals for example. This may sound nitpicky strictly adhering to these ratios for each meal but if you want to go from being average to elite this is where you need to start.

cnqryourbody
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Makwa
09/23/2016 - 11:11

Sorry it took me so long, check this out. It literally took me a couple hours to write this out. My main goal is to go from average to elite.

4 calories = 1g carbs | 4 calories = 1g protein | 9 calories = 1g fat

35g P 46g C 15g F per meal
140 184 120
980 1,288 840

Protein 30% of 3,218 = 965.4
Carbs 40% of 3,218 = 1,287.2
Fats 30% of 3,218 = 965.4

7 meals
Macros Per Meal
P = 137.9 or 34.475g protein (35g)
C = 183.8 or 45.95g carbs (46g)
F = 137.9 or 15.322g fat (16g)

19.5g fat | 42g carbs | 41g protein

MedDx
612
cnqryourbody
09/24/2016 - 02:42

It's like day and night with the restructure....I can actually see the balance occurring as I continue reading and scrolling down thru each meal. I always learn something new here every day. I included this forum in my profile.

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Makwa
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cnqryourbody
09/23/2016 - 11:35

Looks good. Consider each one of those meals a block. Each block has the proper ratio of macros. So right now you are having 7 blocks a day. Now you can also do a half block for one of your snacks and then have 1.5 blocks for your lunch. This way you can play around with blocks and have some smaller meals say for snacks and have some larger meals (blocks) for lunch or dinner etc. So now you can adjust blocks and just make sure you have done 7 full blocks by the time you go to bed. Now when you need to increase cals, just stick with the same ratios or you can add in another meal (block). Also remember that you really don't need to adhere to that ratio for your meal just before bedtime. Just get in a good 20-30 g of slow digesting protein.

Now one place you can also look to increase the amount you eat is during your Post WO meal. So maybe multiply everything for that meal by 1.5 so you are eating 1.5 blocks for that meal. That can help make up for the needed cals if your skip the carbs and fat during your last meal of the day. Also if your largest meal of the day is your Post WO meal, you need to wait at least 3hrs after that meal before you go to bed. So for me it is my PWO meal at about 7pm or so and then three to 4 hours later I have a big glass of Fairlife milk and go to bed.

Hopefully everything is somewhat clear here, but if not, let me know.

MedDx
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Makwa
09/24/2016 - 02:26

This is very helpful. Thank you!!

cnqryourbody
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Makwa
09/23/2016 - 11:55

Awesome. I like the way you refer to them as blocks and I completely understand what you're saying. I'm going to write out the 2nd weeks diet as blocks and try to have smaller and larger meals. Going to play with it a little, I will post it later on tonight or tomorrow. Thanks for all the feedback and help! All the info has been really useful. I can't wait to start bulking Monday.

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Makwa
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cnqryourbody
09/23/2016 - 11:59

Relieved you understand what I was trying to say. Wasn't sure if I was really clear or not.

cnqryourbody
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Makwa
09/24/2016 - 05:50

** UPDATED ** Added week 3 below also and week 4

Here is week 2 - Added an additional 250 cal block to my breakfast and hit my macros. Diet is pretty much the same just added some more egg whites at breakfast, a tortilla for a steak & egg wrap with hot sauce, a whole egg and some low fat powdered PB2 in my oats.

19.5g fat | 42g carbs | 41g protein

Another block hitting macros (almost – barely off) Throwing these in below where meals lack.

19.5g fat | 42g carbs | 41g protein

8.25g fat | 26.5g carbs | 17g protein

19.5g fat | 42g carbs | 41g protein

MedDx
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cnqryourbody
09/28/2016 - 03:27

Nice work. You're a helping me with some new ideas...keep up the good work...

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Makwa
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cnqryourbody
09/26/2016 - 08:07

I think you have got the hang of it now. Remember those weekly jumps in cals are just estimates. If you are not gaining weight like you would like, bump the cals up even more. Everyones metabolism is different so you need to see what is going to work for you and not be locked into only a 250 cal bump each week. With the weekly bump in cals I would also recommend that your workout becomes progressively more intense each week to take advantage of the increase in cals each week also.

MedDx
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Makwa
09/28/2016 - 03:29

X2... :)... when you say workouts should be more intense, you are meaning extra reps on light weight days and moderate increases in weight on heavy weight days...OP is really doing well....

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Makwa
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MedDx
09/28/2016 - 05:10

Progressive overload. It could be more reps, more sets, more weight, lest rest between sets. Each workout just needs to be a little more intense than the previous to keep gains going strong. I usually start out with my base workout and then each week I'll add in another set for each exercise. At the end of the month I'll set up a new base workout and continue on. I personally need to totally switch things up every 4-6 wks or my gains really come to a halt.

cnqryourbody
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Makwa
09/23/2016 - 08:06

Alright sounds good give me a little bit of time to restructure this diet and I will post the revisions.

Dacky
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Makwa
09/23/2016 - 06:42

Interesting and not to hijack the thread but I think of this slightly differently. First I decide on how much protein I want to target. As he's not cycling I don't see any benefit in going over 1.2g to 1.3g of protein per lb of body weight. Then for a bulk I set my fat macro at 20% of total calories and the rest goes to carbs. Now clearly this changes on cycle when I would shoot my protein up quite a bit higher.

So for 3200 calories I would get 200g protein, 70g fat and 440g carbs. Totally agree with your point about about splitting this across all meals as evenly as possible.

This is what works for me and it goes to show how many different ways there are to doing this. I'm going to give you're approach a go when I next bulk. Thanks for the info.

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Makwa
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Dacky
09/23/2016 - 07:04

I'll try and make this long story short. As luck would have it I got to talking to this guy in the gym since we were the only 2 in there on a saturday night. Come to find out he is the trainer and nutritionist for the athletes at a major college. He was in the area putting on a seminar. After our workout we went for our post-workout meal together and what this guy knows about training and nutrition blew my mind. We talked for almost 4 hours and he set up a diet and training plan for me. I have him on speed dial and he is going to work with me. Can't believe how I lucked out here. Every 3 days we tweak my diet based upon energy levels, gains, and a whole bunch of other variables to help maximize my gains. He realistically expects me to put on about 1lb of lean mass every 45 days and possibly more (all natural, since I can't cycle right now) until I hit my goal of 20 more lbs of lean mass. The attention to detail has to be meticulous. Everything is weighed, measured and logged, even the time when I eat my meals and how my energy levels are between meals. All of his elite athletes go through this process. I am still trying to wrap my head around the information overload from him and it is hard to put 4 hours of his consultation into a post but as I become more familiar with the process I'll be able to drop more knowledge bombs. Anyway, those ratios are a snippet of what he has me doing so far.

MedDx
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Makwa
09/24/2016 - 02:07

Great info Makwa...I like the idea the trainer has regarding tweaking diet every 3 days...energy levels, gains, and a whole bunch of other variables is where I need some refurbishing. We need to open up a forum about the variables affecting gains/losses depending on bulk/cut. This is the info we need up in here...lol..and you did get lucky meeting the trainer with that kind of knowledge.

Dacky
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Makwa
09/23/2016 - 08:04

That's awesome. I guess you lucked out and we will all get to benefit as your drop some new info. Looking forward to it. I'm particularly interested in how you go natty. As you may know I am natty myself at the moment and will likely be for the next 6 to 12 months while we try for a baby. First plan is to drop another 7kg of fat and not lose any muscle and then bulk again. Diet needs to be optimised for this. Thanks again.

Dacky
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cnqryourbody
09/23/2016 - 06:01

Nice layout and good planning so +2 for that. I would be interested in Makwa's view but I think you could lower your protein down to 200g and use the extra calories from here to increase carbs. I would also drop that fat macro down quite a bit say to 80g and add extra carbs. You want to carbs to grow. This is what will allow you to add strength and mass which is a virtuous circle. You don't in my view need to have fats so high on a bulk.

cnqryourbody
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Makwa
09/22/2016 - 01:40

Alright will do give me until later tonight or tomorrow night. Been going to sleep a littler earlier after the gym the past few nights. Usually I have trouble sleeping over 6 hours, haven't in years so I'll take it! I'm going to try and get it written out tonight though.

MedDx
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Dacky
09/21/2016 - 04:37

Even better, bro....time for him to start gettin busy...

MedDx
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Dacky
09/21/2016 - 02:34

If the concern is if there is potenial damage from being in a deficit previously then the answer is there are certain metabolic adaptations a that take place when in a sustained calorie deficit.

Previously was how I read it, too... Also, GREAT analysis on the cardio prior to his workout.

I calculated his BMR w/activity using 1.55 (5 days) and got 2639, rounding up...

That macros i posted along with 5K calories would give him an awesome start....even with 4 days would be good too... nice +2

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Makwa
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MedDx
09/20/2016 - 05:42

I'm under the impression his recovery would be challenged after cycle...

Totally. To young to risk the lifelong implications when just as good of gains can be made naturally right now. With more robust FSH/LH and total test i wouldn't be quite as concerned but I would still be recommending to get those easy natural gains first.

~~bigmurph~~
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Makwa
09/20/2016 - 04:56

@ cnqryourbody this is great advice from a really good member. I would definitely respond and ask him some questions if you have some.

+1 makwa great advice as usual brother

cnqryourbody
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bigmurph
09/20/2016 - 11:57

Just got off work, definitely going to reply to everybody. I'm about to eat a small meal and then I'll have about 45 min before I hit the gym. I couldn't open this post on my lunch it wouldn't show up due to site maintenance.

MedDx
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bigmurph
09/20/2016 - 05:01

Yep x2...agreed

DfromPhilly
639
09/20/2016 - 04:38

Plus 1 to get you out of the negs. You're listening to advice, and clearly did a good amount of research before you came looking for more help. The only thing you missed on your research is that you need more of a base for it to be truly beneficial, and you're listening to they guys telling you this. It's good to see people that actually ask for advice and then follow it, as apposed to just looking for a cosigner and not listening to anything anyone says... fuckin A man, I applaud you.

Since you seem like someone who actually gives a fuck about their body and doing things right, over the next year while you're beefing up naturally and doing more research, give this checklist I put together a glance. If you want to be safe you should be able to answer all of these questions before you cycle. You have at least a year to do more research so I'm sure you'll be more than fine by then considering the research you've already done.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/steroid-cycles/answer-these-que...

And give this a look too in like 2-3 years. When you start thinking you want to play with fire, this will remind you to stay out of the forrest.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/steroid-cycles/for-the-average-...

cnqryourbody
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DfromPhilly
09/20/2016 - 15:57

Thank you for posting the first link, I actually just printed out the list and over the next year i'll just continue to do research on all 56 topics (I think, something around that number). I'll just check off what I can answer and focus on what I can't then check those off. Print out the list. And do it one more time. Why not? I think i'll actually put together a binder full of info on all the topics (no i'm not bullshitting).

The second link was actually really good, something I haven't actually read about or seen talked about. I like your point of view, speaking on experience. Really good advice about diet. I love all the info you had about gear and the main 4 you can get by with. But even though I have macros counted out and meals planned out, I really need to dial in my diet.

DfromPhilly
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cnqryourbody
09/20/2016 - 16:40

I'm glad you liked the posts, but I can't take credit for the second post. That's irongame... I just agree with it from every angle. And remember those are the 4 (I choose tbol over dbol) forever, no matter how far you go along (short of pro obviously), but you shouldn't need anything but test for you first few times.

A binder is a little extreme but whatever helps lol. Glad your taking your health seriously and trying to do things right.

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19.5g fat | 42g carbs | 41g protein

19.5g fat | 42g carbs | 41g protein

8.25g fat | 26.5g carbs | 17g protein

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