+ 1 BLOOD RESULTS, ADVICE PLEASE
So, 7 months after completing my cycle of test cyp and anavar, with a pct of nolva/clomid 4 weeks. I have now gotten A FULL blood panel of male and female hormones.
i am not sure what to make of them, i have been feeling really slugish, unmotivated to do anything, depressed and general low libido and weak ejaculation. My doctor says that because its within normal range then he cant do anything but ITS ALL AT THE VERY LOW end of normal.
- cycle was 12 weeks of 500mg of test cyp last 6 weeks 80mg of anavar
- pct was nolvadex and clomid dosed at 40/40/20/20 and 100/100/50/50
Really need advice as to what to do, as its been a long time off cycle and I want to recover, I don' think I am?
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LH = 1.9 IU/L RANGE = 1.20 - 8.60 IU/L
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FSH= 1.9 IU/L RANGE = 0.00 - 19.00 IU/L
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PROLACTIN= 184 mIU/L RANGE= 56.00 - 278.00mIU/L
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Serum oestradiol= 91 pmol/L or 24 pg/ml RANGE= 73 - 275 pmol/L
Serum Testosterone= 12.4 nmol/L or 357 ng/dl
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Go too another doc or rather an endo and have him/her run your bloods again. Most likely they will try to kick start you with some Clomid. Your Pituitary is not producing enough or is not releasing it's magic, It worked for me. I have really good relationship with my endo-I am a diabetic-so I'm honest with her about gear, she runs bloods for me on and off cycle and helps me with Pharma PCT products. Probably not very ethical but she would rather help me do it the right way then try to fix what I fuck up in the process... Just my humble opinion
Ima take a stab in the dark, and just go with the reference ranges, bc I'm not familiar with these measurement units.
If this is 7 months after your cycle, then it's safe to say, these are your baseline figures. It's doubtful that the cycle you have listed is the culprit. That's not really an aggressive cycle. So, don't trip there bro.
Hypogonadism and hypotestosteronism is more common today that people realize. Something is obviously affecting your gonadal levels, bc your right at or below the lower threshold for LH and FSH. There are therapies that will help you elevate them without AAS, and your doc would most likely take that approach over trt or HRT.
What I'm saying is that ancillaries can stimulate the axis to raise production of LH and FSH, which will raise production of test. Clomid is what your dr wil most likely prescribe if you see him/her. It's cost effective and much better of a treatment than being a slave to the pin.
I am not hypogonadal. My LH and FSH baseline figures are at normal range. My test however is another story. So, HRT is my only option there.
Your pituitary is not releasing or producing the hormones LH and FSH in sufficient amounts to keep your test levels healthy for some reason. Why? Only an endo could tell you that. But therapies like clomid should stimulate release/production. If they don't, then the next therapy would be hcg or HMG, which essentially supplements the deficient hormones while keeping natty test flowing.
Hope this is helpful.
Thanks for the advice brother, yes my previous cycles before were pretty harsh orals so that could be the cause of my shut down now and i am really uncertain of the legitmacy of the pct i took because i didnt really bounce back and recover my libido, mood and lost a bit of mass as well and its really been a will.
I am thinking may be a nolva and clomid restart but i am unsure on dosage and how long to do for, and weather the effects on the hpta will be positive permanently or only for a wile and go back down. i really do not want to be on trt or hrt for life man.
cheers,
I'd the standard pct protocol at the least. Maybe a go 3 weeks at 100 on the clomid. Clomid will stimulate pituitary release of LH and FSH. Nolva will do this too but not to the same extent. Nolva will help counter estro some tho, and yours is naturally elevated for some reason. Run your bloodwork 4-6 weeks after you finish this protocol and post them up. Send all 3 of us PM's with the link when you do.
As for your question below about the hcg, I'd say no. Hcg is an exogenous hormone so it will have a suppressive effect on the LH and FSH natty release. That's what you're trying to correct.
The hcg blast would be more beneficial to someone like me who's natty LH and FSH are normal but test is low. It could help stimulate the leydig cells in the testes to produce more efficiently again. Then I'd need to follow up with clomid and nolva to stimulate the natty release of gonadals at the pituitary again.
i agree........ its either another heavy bout of clomid to see if that brings levels back or some serious talk with the Doctor....... myself i would hit clomid and nolva first then if that fails .. visit the Doc.
I have had this problem in the past a few times because i didn't choose to go TRT until i was 51...... clomid/nolva always brought me back to life even after some seriously heavy bouts with stacks that could potentially have had my HPTA crushed while i was still in my 20s.
I cant stress enough.... pharma grade products!!! must be used.
Thanks for the advice brother i think that will be the best bet for me, would you not suggest any hcg usage? or just nolva and clomind at say 40/40/20/20 and 100/100/50/50. I forgot to mention that before this cycle i did do some harsh orals and some pro hormones that could of messed me.
When you done this in the past where the effects on your FSH and LH permanent, because i have heard some cases of recovery and then the levels begin to dip down to un healthy again, or was this not the case?
Cheers,
You could even drag that pct out to 6 weeks. Nolva 40/40/20/20/10/10 and Clomid 200(if you can hack it)/100/50/50/25/25. HCG isn't going to do any harm, go for it. It's possible that first big week of Clomid you'll feel depressed at that dose.
Make sure these are all 100% legit pharma grade.
I bounced back pretty good bro so i see no reason you shouldn't! you're young enough that's a good thing...... HCG in this case sounds good too..... i usually do not push HCG much but in this case it will do more good than harm so yeah.. go for it
Thanks man i am going to do some research on the dosages i should commit to,
but any suggestions from yourself? would it make sense to do say a 2 week run of hcg 500iu EOD with nolvadex and then finish with 4 weeks nolva and clomid?
appreciate it.
I'm in agreement with Doss here. It's conceivable your levels have just not bounced back, but unlikely from what you've run. It does happen though, exogenous hormones are very difficult to predict.
Thinking out loud here, are you confident your serms were legit? Pharma grade? Could they have been bunk?
You could try kicking off with another run of Clomid, or talk to your doc. Considering what you ran, there's no real need for you to tell him/her you've been on gear. If it were me, I'd probably go to the doc. You're a young guy with a lot of time in front of you. No point making life any more difficult!
Bro to be honest im not sure because as the results show my bloods are pretty poor!
but my previous cycles before this one were just oral steroid and some pro hormones so that could have also shut me down however i did pct with nolva with the orals.
I did go to the doc to get these bloods! i told him no libido etc and the guy said these levels are "normal", but he doesnt know the steroids usage.
Thanks bro.
Sounds like your fishing. Looking for someone to say cruise. Like the doc said you are in normal range.
Bro, since when was 357 ng/dl test level for a 26 year old man ever normal?? that is what a 70 year old can expect and everything else is at the very low end, there has been some damage and i feel like crap and cant get an erection.
im not fishing, just want some advice from some one whose been there, or can shed some light.
Maybe find another doctor, or Endo. Try another PCT. I'd try everything I could before having to stick a needle in my ass for the next 50+ yrs
I know people on this website have been there before and would know the best thing for me to do, honestly the way i feel now is suicidal.
GUYS I NEED SOME HELP, PLEASE!?
how long was the cycle and PCT........... ie 16/20 wks with PCT 4/6 etc
The cycle was 12 weeks of 500mg of test cyp and last 6 weeks of 80mg of anavar
week 14 began pct
pct was nolvadex and clomid dosed at 40/40/20/20 and 100/100/50/50
Please any advice?
Do you have any pre cycle bloods to see where you were at beforehand?
I'm not familiar with those units of measurement. Never understood why the founders of America, who came from Europe, decided to bastardize every unit of measurement.
I dont want to take matters into my un enducated hands because i will fu*k myself up even more than what i have done.
The IU/L conversion to mIU/ml is exactly equal so what it says there is what it is in mIU/ml if that is what you used to.
i did the conversion for the testosterone from nmol/l to ng/dl
but for the others i am not sure what the conversion is but as you can from the ranges they are at the very low end of the normal male scale.
Vike and Cat can dial you in brother. Plenty of knowledge floating around in those two heads.
Thanks, i hope for some good advice here
mental it is brother Doss.......... i still talk in pounds and ounces and they made us fkn metric ????
Haha.
We're the only damn country that uses the standard system. Always trying to buck the system..
I have some friends that live in England. Sometimes we have to sit there with our damn calculators to relate. Like with the difference in fuel cost and consumption. You guys use liters, we us gallons. They're consumed per kilometer but here it's miles. How far is this? Hang on, I have an app for that.
What unit are used to i will try to convert?
Unfortunately not, but I know had a strong libido and overall felt much different.