+ 1 Advice for an Old Gym Rat?
My next birthday, I'll be sixty ... it isn't a "middle aged crazy" thing, but I do feel like I need to find out what my body is capable of, if I'm ever going to do it. I have been a member of these forums for quite a while now, and I have seldom posted myself, but I never cease to be amazed at the knowledge and experience I see here. If anyone has experience training with a guy my age, I would certainly appreciate some advice.
Here's the background. I'm 5'5" and 170 pounds. I started training more than forty years ago when I started boxing at 132 pounds but I didn't have the hands for it. At 132 pounds, I could bench 315 ... that just led to some pretty involved hand surgery and extended physical therapy.
It's peculiar to me but now, almost forty pounds heavier, I'm not nearly as strong (I bench 225) but I haven't expanded my waist much ... I wore 29x30's in those days and now wear 32x30's. Other than when my hand was pinned together, I have never stopped training, and I still follow the same regimen my coach preached because it makes perfect sense to me, especially at my age.
Basically, and to keep it short, he believed that resting muscles was as important as stressing them. He preached a six day schedule: Extension Exercises Monday/Tuesday; Legs, Abs and Back Wednesday; Flexion Exercises Thursday/Friday; Legs Abs and Back Saturday. Cardio is Jumping Rope, StairMaster and Tread Mill.
All my life I marveled at Franco Columbo ... he is the same height as I am. I am under no illusions that anything like that is possible, but I would like to know what three, age appropriate, twelve week cycles could make possible for me this year.
That's my question. I want to do three, twelve week cycles this year with the intent of losing some fat, but packing on as much muscle as possible.
I'm comfortable with my existing exercise routine, as well as nutrition.
A couple of comments I would share with my younger brethren.
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Guys in their 20's who work out all look good ... if you keep it up, just wait til you're 50. I have an entire closet of Under Armor shirts that most guys half my age would look ridiculous in. I'm not as big as I'd like to be, but I have no trace of a bulge anywhere I shouldn't. Believe me when I tell you, women have no end of athletic guys to pick from at 20 ... over forty, there's almost nothing out there, and over fifty, it's just plain desolate.
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Don't let the Viagra/Cialis commercials fool you. Sure, there are a lot of guys out there who are 50+ with "performance problems," but if you look at who they're sleeping with ... I'm thinking you'd have problems too! Further to my point #1 ... there are some drop dead gorgeous women over 35 who have nothing to pick from. My wife is just a few years younger than I am. It's hysterical to watch young guys stare at her ... she's the result of extraordinary genetics and a lifetime working out.
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Enjoy your life, but take the best care of yourself that you can. Getting old is the BEST of the two potential possibilities that you have to look forward to but, if you take care of yourself, you can enjoy a life over 50 that most of the guys in your peer group can just vaguely remember.
Anyway, if someone can share some experienced guidance regarding cycles, I want to see what better living thru chemistry can make of me by the "Big Six O."
Thanks
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i just want to give you a different point of view since 99% of people around will tell you how to cycle instead
you are fitter than most people specially those at your age, do you think stressing your heart at 60 years old is a good idea?
third comment "take the best care of yourself that you can" you dont seem to follow it
Ok then in the absense of anyone else posting a steroid cycle for you here goes,
Given your quite high TRT doseage of 500mg/wk sustanon we will use that as a base
A 12 week cycle with a 4 week kicker of Anavar at the beginning and end of the cycle,and frankly I'm impressed with Masteron so lets add that as well.
So
Sustanon 500mg/wk weeks 1-12
Masteron Enanthate 200mg/wk weeks 1-4 then 400mg/wk weeks 5-12
Anavar 30mg/day weeks 1-4 and 50mgs/day weeks 8-12
Split the Anavar into taking it twice daily say initialy 20mgs half hour before workout and 10mgs 8 hours or so later/earlier.Three reasons for this.Firstly splitting the doseage will be easier on your liver,secondly given the short life of orals it will reduce the peak and trough of the doseage,thirdly the psychological gain of the higher pre workout doseage.
Finaly take TUDCA when on orals to protect the liver.
And of course your Nolvadex as you already use it.
A few other points,
I personally like to cycle my training on both the poundages used on core exercises and volume of work done,at the same time tighten your diet a bit each week, the last 6 weeks should be tough but the fat just rips off.Don't go below 1000 calories below your maintenance levels daily or you will burn to much muscle.
As has been said you need to do cardio and shake up your training routine,I believe in progressive weight training where you strive to do more over the period,rep range 8-12 in most exercises.
A couple of tips for fat loss I've found work quite well,I train in the morning from fasted overnight,a cup of black coffee along with my supplements help stimulate the nervous system and release fat into the bloodstream from the bodies stored fat for use as energy,weight training is done first to deplete the remaining glycogen stores and have peak energy for the heavy exercises,then cardio to burn up your stored bodyfat.I train 30-40 minutes with the weights then 25 mins cardio giving it all I've got the last minute get that heart racing :).
Thanks for taking the time to write.
I'll give this a shot and report back.
I've always followed the morning ritual you describe ... work out in the morning on an empty stomach with some coffee to start my heart.
Thanks
seriously you havent used any of those compounds and you are just gonna use em all..... ? good luck with that and figuring out what works well for you, what doesn't, and what's giving you those sides you are going to have to deal with ... that's a great cycle lets throw the kitchen sink in while we are at it ...
Hi KodiakGRRL,
A completely valid criticism, I’m aware adding two new compounds at the same time makes it difficult to see what is doing what. Given that I know this why did I recommend it? Let me explain you may in the end disagree with my reasoning but at least there is one.
I’ve added exactly the same compounds myself with the addition of Tren E (baby dosage) and the results have been amazing, my diet is tight minus 800kcals a day below maintenance yet I’ve gained 7 lbs in two weeks and it isn’t water retention, rock hard muscle and noticeable increase in size and reduced fat levels.Quite frankly given the results I’m experiencing I’m just so impressed that I recommended the combination to the OP and I’m sure he will be more than happy with the results. I left out the Tren as taking that needs to be a personal choice I’m afraid curiosity got the better of me. On the question of sides for the OP Anavar is pretty mild and the dosage is low also when he comes off the first run of Anavar we increase the Mast E dosage still a pretty moderate 400mg/week so he should be able to see the effect of that compound alone over the next 3 weeks, he is well experienced with sustanon and what he can expect with that.
The only change I would make would be to increase the Anavar
Weeks 1 and 2 30mg/day
Weeks 3 and 4 60mg/day
Weeks 8 and 9 60mg/day
Weeks 10/11/12 100mg/day
All orals doseage split up twice daily as explained previously.
I like to increase the doseage due to the fact I try and lift more progressively throughout the cycle peaking at the end.
You can say that you turned out fine .... and that is probably true... However, you have no clue as to what his biochemistry is like nor do you know how he'll react .. no one of us here is going to have the same exact results running the same exact compounds the same way ... ...
I completely agree, he must monitor progress and take note of any side effects,tweak the doseages and ratios and judge for himself.
But without prior knowledge of the compounds how will he know what sides to attribute to what compound and consequently know which compound to tweak ... too much guess work and way too much room for error resulting in the probability of a rather nightmarish cycle should he get it wrong .... just my opinion though ;-)
You know what your talking about, I winged it a bit myself but liked the combination hence the reccommendations but it does complicate things. Not something I would generaly reccommend doing.
If you've gained 7lbs in two weeks, it isn't all lean tissue. Look at it visually, get a 1/2lb steak and look at it. You've added one of those daily? Not possible, not even close.
Lol I love when people tell me they gained some crazy amount like 20 pounds of muscle in a month lmfao!!!! I die everytime man. I got a who lifted for 6 months 2 years ago and he's always telling me "tone it up man I gained 30 pounds of muscle in 6 months" I just look at him like not you probably gained 6 pounds of muscle since you were a noob and the rest was fat lol I love busting people's bubble on that shit!!
Hi robx12321,
Well that is a lot of steak :), I did agree with catalyst that most must be water retention given that we're 98 or 99% water, good hard gains though although maybe best to add one compound at a time generaly speaking.
Hi Catalyst,
Your probably correct but it is a good quality gain,very dense unlike the water retention gains from Test E for example,very happy with the combination so far,I'm on the 4th week of Anavar now so will come off that and double the doseage of Test,Tren and Mast to 475mg Test (blend 350mg and Test E 125mg) and 125mg/wk of Mast E and Tren E.Only sides so far some night sweats and seem to be running warmer than usual LOL.
Might as well add another Tren story,
Young powerlifter I know was stacking with Tren for a contest (he won) but found himself chasing a cyclist down the road,I don't know what he did to trigger him?Given Trens rep probably just looked at him funny,fortunately for both of them the cyclist was too fast for him and got away,He's off the Tren now due to that incident but will use again as he loves it.tren Acetate BTW
welcome OGR ;-)
I m sorry if I repeat some of the postings below but what strikes me is that you have the foundation (sure would like to see a pic if you could) but, in order to pack on the 'size' which mind you is different than strength, you will need to consider making some changes to your training .... not that what you are doing is incorrect but you can't forget that your body's mission is equilibrium and homeostasis ... balance if you will. You've got to change things to shock it into growth ... change training, change up the diet, change it up when you get comfortable ... change up the cycles .. change in ALL areas of your life, if embraced will lead to growth, mentally AND physically.
Confidence leads to success............ success leads to even more confidence then Boooooom the magic becomes consistant, everything becomes achievable.
Change............ leads to Evolution...................... the Key to life imo
Embrace it ;-)
Holy fkn shit!............... i dont wanna be that age then............. i better start training quick!!......... Lmfao!
Welcome to eroids...... Age is just a number, without trying to blow my own trumpet....... i am living proof
We have a number of older Gents on here who are superb physical specimens... i am sure a bunch of them will show up in this thread.
I showed up .. I m not old nor am I gent though ...lol.. just nosey ;-)
LOL Viking, but respectfully, I must say that you might want to reconsider what ya want ... there is only one way I know of never to be that age ... and that's not a good option. LOLLLLLLLLL
; )
i will be 56 in 4mths brother............... still feel 30 something
Hi OGR,
Your coach is right about recovery mine is way down on when I was in my twenties and thirties,having just lost 6 stone largely without steroids I would say try cutting the body fat naturaly at first then consider steroid useage to maintain muscle mass for the last stone or two.
If it helps I generally use a 12 week cycle gradualy increasing poundages and workout volume whilst tightening up the diet bit by bit,the last 6 weeks or so are pretty tough but the fat just falls off.
I have just started steroid useage now on my third week after I peaked on my last training cycle,I find more benefit for steroids when you've peaked and a bit over trained,just using baby doseages as I'm trying Tren E for the first time along with Test E and Masteron E,just a half cc or 62.5mg a weeki of each and an Anavar kicker for the first 4 weeks and the last (12 week cycle).I've put on 7 lbs in two weeks but dropped one and half inches from my waist and noticably harder physique and a bit stronger.However if this is your first usage I wouldn't add all these compounds keep it simple as advised here and use the lower water retaining steroids maybe sustanon and anavar start pretty low and see how they effect you and adjust from there.Have nolvadex on hand in case of gyno problems (sore nipples).
I'm glad you mentioned Nolvadex as I forgot to say that I take a pill, once a week with each injection, and always have. I'm not sure whether gyno issues are common at the Test dosage I've always taken, but it seems like cheap insurance to me.
7 pounds in 2 weeks ... that's awesome.
The weight gain was a surprise as my diet is very tight at the moment,however the tren,mast and anavar combination plus a bit of test is working miracles on my physique (not forgetting the hours of training mind you).I'll adjust the doseage up a bit but not going crazy.
I also intend to improve my quality of life by chemicals lets call it TRT plus,it makes such a huge differance to the way you look and feel and energy levels,unless your lucky with your GP or private they seem a bit tight with the doseage taking you into the bottom of the normal test range in your blood tests,much better to be in the top half of the range IMO but go by how you feel.
Should also add I take TUDCA with the oral steroids,it was mentioned on here as being designed to reduce the damage they do to the liver,use the magnifying glass at the top of the page its quite a useful tool.
Good luck in your journey
Welcome OGR, digging your perspective, especially #2 lol. Ya I've worked with guys your age and at the moment I got a few who are doing well with a little direction.
What is your trt dose and what are your Test serums, free test and estro looking like on average? Or latley?
Any other health issues besides the hand?
Focus on a direction...gain muscle or lose fat. With that your cycles, diet and training can co exist with where you wanna go.
Don't get too comfortable with any routine..that is when you will plateau eventually.
Short term and long term goals...what are they?
Years ago (maybe 6, I don't really recall), I got connected with one of the HRT mills. They put me on 400 mg of Test Cyp a week. That's really quite a racket ... to stay with it, they require a lot of testing that seemed to me more about generating billing than was medically necessary. While overseas about three years ago, a doctor recommended Sustanon 250 at 500 a week. That seemed to work better, but I suppose that's strictly subjective so I cannot really say. I've been getting it thru Naps ever since.
All the doctors I have dealt with said that PCT is not the same for guys my age as it is for the younger crowd but, frankly, I questioned that since my numbers were not that bad and testicular atrophy doesn't appeal to me. A few times a year I've done HCG at 10,000 ... 1000 per day.
I cannot tell you what my labs are as I haven't done any in years. I suppose I'm operating on the theory that doing the same thing the same way should be expected to yield the same results. If I remember correctly, my initial results were just over 200 and they stabilized at about 800 with HRT.
I tend to assess effectiveness by ... well, let's just say if I ever need Viagra/Cialis, I'll know I need an adjustment! I've got friends my age who feel lucky if they "get lucky" once a week ... that's just too pitiful to contemplate. The theme song to the movie, MASH, would be going round and round in my head!
(That's, "Suicide is painless," for those who may not know that theme song)
As far as the routine goes, the general theory is a constant but I like to mix things up within that system. I always follow the same general system (five days rest between hitting the same muscle groups (Flexion/Extension) and a little shorter period between hitting legs, abs and back, as those muscles are designed for more consistent stress (at least according to my old coach).
I can only say that no matter how I mix things up within that system, I've never had joint, tendon issues. When each series comes around again, I feel up to hitting it hard again.
Goals ... Short term (meaning by year's end), I'd like to cut a little fat and add as much muscle as possible. I'll train as hard a my old body allows and, if someone can give me some good age specific advice, I'll push the chemistry as far as seems rational. Long term, I'll just maintain wherever that takes me the best I can on the 400-500 mg of weekly test that my body seems to like just fine. If necessary, assuming one of our resident experts can suggest a 12 week cycle that my body likes, I'll figure on doing that once a year.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
I agree with the medical field being a racket. I'm trying to wrap my head around why you are prescribed 500mg of test wk. Surely you must have researched that it is a high dose. Do yourself a huge favor and get your bloodwork done, 6 years on that dose straight cannot be good for the body.
thats a constant cycle!!............ thats waaaaaay beyond TRT lmfaooooooo
I am just taking this all in. I have a very difficult time believing any physician wouldn't find themselves in a tough spot if they were prescribing doses that high.