+ 4 PCT that worked for me
I read how people state theyre PCT and only mention the SARM and Ai but your body needs more tools for a proper recovery
"THIS IS WHAT WORKED FOR ME NOT SAYING OTHER PCT ARE WRONG I DIDNT LOOSE AN INCH OF MUSCLE NO WHERE IN MY BODY AFTER THIS PCT I MEASURED EVERY BODY PART"
Anyway I used Clomid 50mg for 4weeks
Nolvadex 40mg for 3weeks
And Arimidex .25 every 2 or 3 days
1000iu of HCG a week for 5weeks
And Mirtazapine 15mg a day b4 bed this greatly lowers cortisol
When your body has no Testosterone after a cycle Cortisol is higher in the Ratio of Test:Cortisol makeing your body a Catabolic enviroment
The following Vitamins helps a man Testosterone
•Vitamin E-The best is D-Alpha Tocopherols with Mixed Tocopherols
•Vitamin B12-MethlyCobalain is the best
They are best due to their they have a higher value is bio-absorbability
•Zinc-Zinc Picolinate will help u
produce more Testosterone oats have alot Zinc
•Vitamin C-helps ur body keep Testosterone at healthy levels
Did u know vitamin C is the vitamin most used in the body right now ur body is depleting vitamin C as u read this lol
•Vitamin B6- P-5-P Pyroxidal-5-Phosphate sorry if mispelled doing this off the top of my Head
I mention these specific forms of the vitamins due to these have the best Bio-absorbability in the body meaning you dont pee out most of it
This is why cheap multivitamins make your piss more yellow and concentrated due to the extra vitamins getting voided out
Now lets get into the Herbs i used
•Rhondiola and Gingko Bibola are awsome in keeping your Testosterone/Cortisol ratio at an anabolic favor and reducing catabolic tendency of the Human Soma
•Testsofen aka Nuginex
•Extenze great herbals ingredients to raise your testosterone
•Korean Red Gingseng paste directly from south Korea great in Helping getting your HDL/LDL back on track and lowering Cortisol
•OATS- full of many vitamins and minerals and good to get ur Cholesterol back in place
Foods that Help
eat 1-2 whole eggs a day
Testosterone is a steroid
Steroids are Cholesterol derived meaning Cholesterol is converted to Test
Also eat plenty of Mono and Poly Unsaturated Fats they are loaded with Omega 3-6-9 essential for Testosterone production(eat Nuts Avocados fish oils almonds etc..)
DONT BELIVE ME ASK THE SCIENTIST LOL BELOW ARE LINKS TO MY RESEARCH I SPENT ALOT $$ and TIME TO FORMULATE THIS PC
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8792655/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6816576/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6727359/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19568709/
Hope this helps add your expirence with ur PCT im more than happy to learn more and add to my future PCT
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mirtazapine:
I would not go over 15mgs a day as most of the common/uncommon sides come from doses 30mg or higher. With all of the side affects to this drug i wouldn't recommended taking it.
Eating a clean diet high in Vitamin-C content fruits/veggies or a vit. C supplement will help with cortisol.
read: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/173480
Also Zinc will inhibit cortisol production see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1702662
Just my 2 cents!
Here is a abstract from a study on mirtazapine, from NIH
(link) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10451911
Psychoneuroendocrinology. 1999 Oct;24(7):769-84.
Effects of mirtazapine on growth hormone, prolactin, and cortisol secretion in healthy male subjects.
Laakmann G, Schüle C, Baghai T, Waldvogel E.
Author information
Abstract
In the present study the effects of acute PO-administration of 15 mg mirtazapine on the growth hormone (GH), prolactin (PRL), and cortisol (COR) secretion were examined in eight physically and mentally healthy male subjects, compared to placebo. Mirtazapine is a new antidepressant agent which does not inhibit the reuptake of norepinephrine or serotonin but is an antagonist of presynaptic and, presumably, postsynaptic alpha 2-receptors as well as an antagonist of postsynaptic 5-HT2 and 5-HT3-receptors. After insertion of an i.v. catheter, blood samples were drawn 1 h prior to the administration of mirtazapine or placebo, at time of application, and during the time of 4 h after application in periods of 30 min. Plasma concentrations of GH, PRL, and COR were determined in each blood sample by double antibody RIA methods. The area under the curve (AUC) value was used as parameter for the GH, PRL, and COR response. With respect to GH and PRL secretion, mirtazapine did not show any effects in comparison with placebo. However, in all subjects, the COR concentrations were remarkably lower after mirtazapine compared to placebo, the difference being obvious in the mean value graphs 60 min after the application up to the end of the measurement period. The t-test for paired samples revealed a highly significant difference (P < 0.01) in COR-AUC-values between the mirtazapine group (mean COR-AUC: 1558.07 micrograms/100 ml x 240 min) and the placebo group (mean COR-AUC: 2698.86 micrograms/100 ml x 240 min). Further studies have to elucidate the question whether the demonstrated inhibition of COR secretion after application of 15 mg mirtazapine is caused by central or peripheral effects of this substance.
You forgot Vit D.
The latest studies by the Endocrinology society show that 25mg of clomid daily along with 5000iu of Vit D increases test levels by the equivalent amount as 100mg of clomid ED.
So for those that dont like the side effects that come with clomid these findings are very helpful.
BTW, it's more about what you take on cycle that aids recovery and not what you take post cycle.
Also none of your links have any relevance whatsoever, sorry.
DragonovYea bro i agree i do take D3 just forgot to post it
D3 definetly helps tesosterone
Do you have a link for the Vita D study?
Can you elaborate on what supps to take on cycle that will help during recovery?
I don't but i may be able to find it again as long as i read it on the internet, i have sources from news letters and subscriptions, as i study andrology and endocrinology i read thousands of articles.
The most important one to aid recovery of HPTA function is hCG.
Because we are talking about an axis and all four parts of the axis need to be working then it's important that the testes are functioning so the PCT meds that you take post cycle can actually do what they are intended to do.
If your leydig cell receptors are not receptive to stimulation from GnRH because they have been inactive for many weeks/months then you aren't going to start producing your own testosterone anytime soon.
The next most important med is an AI (many people think i dont get gyno, i dont need an AI) the reasons and benefits however for taking a low dose AI are numerous.
The main reason is that estrogen is approx 200 times more suppressive than testosterone and as you know, we hate suppression.
Other problems associated with high estrogen from aromatization are listed below.
*It can affect your libido and sexual function.
*It causes fatigue (ask anyone if they have experienced so called test flu on the first cycles, 90% of the time this is due to the huge increase in estrogen).
*It raises TBG, this causes bloat and puts a strain on your kidneys.
*It raises SHBG, this leaves less free test for you to grow.
*It is also a causative factor in enlarged prostate, do you really need this when exogenous test converting to DHT is also another causative factor in BPH.
Basically just using these two meds on cycle will double the speed by which you recover, the faster you recover the more of those hard earned gains you keep.
"If your leydig cell receptors are not receptive to stimulation from GnRH "
I think you mean LH
Maybe it would have been more helpful to say LH, but GnRH is a hypothalmic decapeptide known as LHRH.
But yes you are correct, i do mean LH.
It's not that it would have been more helpful, It is that it is correct and what you said was incorrect.
DragonovVery true GnRH is what stimulates the Anterior pituitary secrete LH and FSH
MakaveliCD7The one thing that needs to be understood by all is the everyone is going to be different. ..many years have past with newer drugs that work even better now....u have to find what works best...but now Adex is awesome on cycle but u must understand that it just occupies that enzyme for a bit and releases which if u are in ur pct u will rebound basically as soon as u stop taking it...that is where aromasin comes in bc its a suicide inhibitor which means it hangs on to the enzyme until it dies so the rebound issue is not there. ..I love me some letro on cycle but I know when I stop I better have aromasin in me bc it will have a rebound of almost double. ...HCG is so debateable bc I feel with the proper pct being utilized at the start of ur very first cycle u really have a great chance of recovery. ..However I definitely think that if u are running a hard long cycle it's a must have on cycle starting the middle point all the way until 3 weeks before pct unless ur labs historically warrant the use it can bring u extra estrogen war in the pct....but that's me understand. ...others run it with no problem. ...I'm not a huge fan of herbal remedies bc the can fuck ur blood pressure and affect mental as well... I believe ur always safe if u stick with the simple basics bc its tried and true over and over again and I'm speaking this from my own variety of experiences as well as crash and burns....best thing a person can do for themselves is blood work bc it tells you exactly what is going on in your body at that given time and like Guru Tread-m says u can road map ur body on cycle. ....Also focus hard on ur diet bc an ass load of guys drop the ball on this....ur nutrition and diet will play the key part in ur retention and recovery bc notice when you run ur pct u have no real loss but maybe some water but check urself 2-3 weeks post pct that's where the decline starts drastic. ...If u will learn to know exactly what works for you and ur body in recovery u will always have a successful pct.....best part about eroids there is an absolute wealth of knowledge all pooled in this site so u have the keys to get the most out of ur cycle and ur money for that matter. ...hope this helps others out
nah arimidex can be used without any worry of rebound. You have to understand that because aromasin binds permanently the body SYNTHESIZES MORE aromatase.
This cancels out the benefit meaning aromasin is no better. lol
DragonovHow many cycle hav u ran man?
In my past to pct i didnt think arimidex was a bad choice but i thot i listen to these guys since they got more experience
DragonovThanx for the insight brother
Yea this site is definitely giving some good Advice
Im gona give aromasin a go for my next PCT
BillLumberghhcg is suppressive during pct. still like the different outlook.
as far as naturals here's what I have done, never as a PCT more just to maintain healthy natural hormones. this combo makes me have frequent wet dreams if that means anything.
-d3 5000iu ed
-omega3 oils- high quality over 3 grams of dha/epa ed
-Vit C -4 gs ed
Acetyl-L-Carnitine 2 gs ed
DragonovGood call on the D3 cant belive i forgot to mention that one gret input
I have some Acetyl L-Carnitine my gurl dnt use
Ill add it to my regimin
Thanx
Sirk1981Thanks for taking the time to write this up. +1
It's awesome that you put all this work and effort into this. And it's even better than you have a willingness to share this information. I understand your eagerness to help the community but unfortunately this information is counterproductive in a huge way.
Most of the studies that you cite are based on rats which to me and a lot of other people in the scientific community is worthless in terms of actual effects in humans. Don't get me wrong experimenting in rats is where it starts but then the concepts derived during those studies are confirmed verified or disproved in human studies.
Now onto the more serious problems.
Mirtazapine Is antidepressant. May sound good on paper not the best thing to have as a standard protocol. There are groups of people that would not respond very well to this medication and their overall well-being and mental status would be greatly affected and PCT would be the least of their problems.
HCG during PCT is a big no-no. its suppressive, so in other words it's counterproductive to the other medication. hCG should be taken during the cycle to prevent testicular shutdown as well as an overall sense of well-being and body function.
Armidex Is also a no-no on PCT.
You have to understand the concept of PCT. first of all you just finished messing with the body's hormone profile. its under a lot of stress. You need to provide the best environment for recovery and that's not by introducing a whole slew of other compounds Some of which are counterproductive. I am not trying to be harsh nor discouraging you from contributing but some of the stuff you say can be outright dangerous.
DragonovThanx for guiding to use Aromasin for my next PCT bro i greatly appreciate it i found some cool info on aromasin
Gathered some info about aromasin
Thanx for guiding to use Aromasin for my next PCT
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/aromasin-men-...
DragonovHey thanx man always good to hears someones opinion and experience
Im not gona lie Miratzapine wasnt ez taken i felt kinda sleepy the first couple days
I learned this method from L.Rea Author he is a very huge guy it made sense to so i tried it. Thank god i didnt loose any muscle tissue.
As for the HCG there are many people who have their say on it people like Rich Piana love the idea of HCg during PCT
Some Dr use HCG as an alternative to TRT
HCG i imagine can be surpressive if used in great amounts but HCG isnt Exogenous Testosterone its a LH look a like. Which go to the Testicles which the Ley Dig cells convert it to testosterone and as long as an Ai is present E2 shouldn't be a problem.
I choose arimidex cause i everytime i looked up PCT i read forums including Eroids that with Aromasin their E2 was still high
But maybe their Aromasin wasnt legit idk
But thankfully this worked for me
I did do a Blood test I had Insurance at the time during PCT my Testosterone was at 900 and E2 well in range.
But i didnt do a blood test after PCT but my sexual appetite was healthy.
But definitely next time i will do bloods b4 during and after
PS Im not saying your wrong nor that Im right i guess i got lucky but if you can E-mail me a good SRC for Aromasin please i will try that
Cause if im not mistaken i think i read Arimidex lowers IGF and Aromasin make it higher idk this is from the top of my head
Thanx again man
You are absolutely right there are a lot of people that have their say on hCG. But the fact remains the same it is suppressive at any dose which makes it counterproductive. That's not an opinion that's a fact. Rich Piana Is huge not to mention he is a super cool dude but doesn't know shit about PCT based on the comments he has made publicly.
"Some Dr use HCG as an alternative to TRT" I don't understand the point you are trying to make.
"HCG i imagine can be surpressive if used in great amounts but HCG isnt Exogenous Testosterone its a LH look a like." A look-alike, what does that even mean? And there's nothing to imagine its suppressive PERIOD.
"HCG isnt Exogenous Testosterone its a LH look a like. Which go to the Testicles which the Ley Dig cells convert it to testosterone and as long as an Ai is present E2 shouldn't be a problem. " LH Is not converted to testosterone. And just so you know the E2 that comes from the testes cannot be controlled with an AI...... because it's not converted its created. Learn your stuff before you talk this nonsense on the boards. You need to understand this stuff yourself before you go explaining it to others.
FR send!
have a question ;-)
AnonVery informative response +1
Thank you.
Add at least 3000mg of L carnitine. You will like having sperm again.
So you take the HcG after cycle is finished? So there will be one week that you take HcG without any SERM cause u said tamox for 3 weeks nd clomid for 4
DragonovI continue to use Arimidex while on HCG
SARMS dont stop the conversion of E2 from Testosterone they inhibit the negative feedback loop of the HTPA by tricking the body that there is no more E2 in the body by blocking E2 receptors.
Ai inhibit Aromatase enzyme which is the lil factory of converting E2 from Free Test
Anon+1 on the information but Arimidex in PCT I would definitely not recommended. Aro definitely
DragonovThanx for who ever gave me more Kool points