posted Sat, 12/14/2013 - 10:44
2591
depression during pct
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So after heavy cycles I tend to get depressed really bad the first 2-3 weeks of pct mainly a deep sadness assuming from clomid which I feel is necesary. Has anyone got any tips to avoid this from my experience is all in the head if you can think its only pct get on with it its easy and temporary,but its hard any help appreciated:)thanks
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eryximachusI think the association with clomid is overrated. Steroids, by themselves, have a wide variety of emotional effects. And at this point, i can say that running tren for example leaves me with much more depression than others. The depression is definitely not due to the PCT drugs alone. There is no question some withdrawal syndrome is at play.
A couple thoughts in no particular order
1) Clomid is one of the most proven drugs for restarting. I do not think it is wise to use other substances in lieu of it.
2) Lithium is very cheap, works fast, and works very well for a wide variety of depression. Even better, it does not make one particularly "high". Take it at 150mg 3x a day, which is half of the minimum dose for serious mental illness.
3) Reconsider cycling, and certainly reconsider heavy cycling. People have really fucked their lives up from cycling. Ask yourself if it's worth risking your job, your relationship(s), etc.
4) Modafinil works great for fatigue and lack of motivation. It is hard to get as it's controlled, but amazingly, another form is OTC: Adrafanil. I personally like it better than the Modafanil I get from India.
5) Keep to a strong, strict PCT for the first 4-6 weeks. If you're still feeling bad after that, there is no shame in using proviron.
i think youre assumptions of clomid are wrong. clomids sides are widely known among AAS users, depression, paranoia and other emotional ups and downs, i do agree that during PCT your emotional status can reflect the compounds you ran. clomid is a proven PCT compound simply because it was one of the first, so its got that cult like bro-science following when in fact during reboot of LH and FSH levels it falls incredibly short of toremifene and nolvadex, by nearly a 10 to 1 margin. also i think suggesting using anti-psychotic meds for PCT reboot is a poor decision, PCT is about getting the hormones going in the htpa why would you suggest messing with brain chemistry also. ive covered these topics in depth many times. it seems the old bro-science is hard to die. please read some of my threads about PCT, OCT and the compounds for them. i mean no disrespect.
eryximachusI'm sorry, but had you spent any time studying this, you would know that clomid has many scientific studies backing up its use. This is hardly bro science. I'm amused with your mentioning of nolvadex, because one thing you WON'T find, is a single medical journal anywhere in the world that shows a successful restart using nolvadex.
I mean, bro, you realize an isomer of clomid is now in Phase III trials for TRT use, don't you? It's in the wikipedia article!
And, for the record, lithium is a salt and basic element. It is a mood stabilizer, not an antipsychotic. It has proven antidepressant properties as well, and in general it is much easier to tolerate and works faster than say, prozac or any other SSRI. If someone is feeling bad, it is a cheap and easy solution.
i ma not here to argue, we both have good points. i dont want this to be an argument of who knows more. this is not what im about, its about learning and progressing. i do agree with you and i think you missed that point. so if i offend you i am sorry its not my intent., i go out of my way to avoid insults. its all about the brother hood and learning so lets keep it that way please.
sorry
eryximachusWell, it's very simple. Bro science means theories unsupported by clinical trials. Real medical science has such support from clinical trials. We have vast numbers of clinical trials regarding clomid. It is used regularly by endocrinologists.
Suggesting there is anything superior to clomid for increasing LH and FSH is simply flat out wrong, and THAT is pure bro science.
As you do not seem well versed in this subject, I would suggest you keep your accusations of bro science to yourself until you have the time or inclination to read some medical journals.
im not going to continue to argue, there is no purpose to it.
I am well aware of many studies backing up clomid use and use in TRT so please dont make an assumption that i dont study what i talk about, everything i comment on i can back up. im not getting into a pissing contest. i post what i know to be factual if you wish to challenge it please post links to disprove it. nolvadex is more effective what 20mg of nolva does it takes more than 100mg of clomid. they are structurally alike, classified as triphenylethylenes and both serms nolvadex being the stronger of the two nolva's ability to be more responsive to lh and than to raise gnrh is more significant than clomid to. some studies have shown clomid to be more than 300% more effective. i think the lack of studies is its off label use. nolva still is widely labeled only for female use relating to breast cancer. nolvadex (tamoxifen) is commonly prescribed now as a male fertility drug because of its ability to rasie sperm count, lh, fsh and GNRH. i have never really looked for a specific study about AAS reboot use with tamoxifen but the studies i have read have dramatic differences in their ability to raise these hormones. i suspect there is a study if not several and i will look. if i am wrong i am sorry. when i say bro-science i am not attacking the drug or what it does but the fact that there are more suitable drugs that are more effective with less side effects and the culture of AAS world seems to stick with what we know often rather than what is new or changed. also in the comparison, there has been several studies of toremifene for htpa reboot, breast cancer treatment in men and women, and for fertility treatment in both. toremifene has been shown in many studes based on the findings when comparing to be the most effective at reboot. one study showed it was almost 400% more effective than clomid.
when i look at studies i look at #'s not its use, in the study group how much does it raise the things we need for reboot. lh. fsh, gnrh, lipid effects, igf effects, estrogen response, pre and post testosterone, and if available sperm count ratios. you cant generalize studies. look outside the box, this is how doctors and pharmacuetical companies find new uses for drugs.
eryximachusI don't think you understand.
There are NO studies regarding nolvadex that you describe that have been performed on humans. There are NO endocrinologists who use nolvadex. What few doctors have been involved with this, such as Michael Scally, have always used nolvadex in conjunction with clomid.
Toremifrene is new enough that I've yet to see any significant studies, nor have I heard of any doctors using it. As it is structurally similar to nolvadex, I'm dubious.
You might very well be correct, and I am certainly open to new suggestions, but clomid is proven. It works. Suggesting otherwise is just wrong. Moreover, this are your BALLS we are talking about.
Why risk using a drug that has been out for five years when we have one that is proven to work?
It makes no sense.
i wrote a thread about toremifene based PCT eliminating clomid. clomid was hell for me. i have had several friends try it and other members on here PM me about their tore PCT progress and results. notably all have said how much faster theyve recovered, how much better they felt physically and emotionally, and all that ive asked have had no issues with depression or lows as many do on the standard clomid/nolva PCT also many noticed a greater ability to maintain and keep gains. im attatching a link to the post i made i hope you review it and consider trying it.
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/toremifene-pc...
Just wanted to say your not alone. After the 12th weeks of my last cycle I fell into a depression and lost all engery. I felt weak and became sick. I stopped going to the gym and the cycle. Doc gave me some zoloft and another prescription but I don't feel they helped. Depression lasted a week and a half, lost sex drive, it's been 4 weeks now and I am now felling back to normal and ready to get back in the gym. I hope this doesn't happen my next cycle but I'm looking into getting depression meds before hand just in case. Depression can be a scary ass thing to go through. It has taken the life of two people I knew. People should be aware of this and seek help if needed.
Not that I'm an expert but Zoloft and most SSRI (anti depressants) take weeks to develop to a level in the brain to start working and also getting off of them can be viscous on your mental health My opinion is that unless your diagnosed clinically depressed don't go for the anti depressants, they'll most likely put more stress on your mental health then they would help. Not trying to be a dick and correct you or anything it's just I have a lot of experience with this being a recovering addict and seeing these taken under the wrong circumstances.
I always assumed it was clomid but I have experienced the same thing.
Cheers guys ill look into tribulus ect. Iv also read about tapering and im gonna try that this cycle. Im gonna do a 10 week test e @ 750pw and 50-80mg ed dbol kick starter with 2-3 weeks taper using test prop and hope for a speedier recovery than previous 20wk test deca and test tren cycles. Although I did feel completley fine 2 weeks post pct so Its defo the pct/initial crash turning me into a wimp...
Fenugreek, Goldenseal and Tribulus! That will help greatly for those pct blues! Also I concur with Omnom tapering out with Test Prop will help.
I found tapering my test down for a period of time after dropping all other compounds helped a lot with the transition.. vs just going from 500 mg of test to nothing shocks the shit outa your system with no warning
Thats a good idea, could you give a discription on how you would do that? Btw congrats on 200karma
I know exactly how u feel. I try and go out with friends more often or even find yourself a new GF to distract your mind with different activities, im sure there is some medications that help but i rather keep it "natural"