AI for Adrol and Dbol Stack? Nolva -v- Aromasin
I'm just looking for anecdotal evidence form persons with experience. Scientific is always vague so real life is my desire.
I plan a four week 'bump' into this cycle of Anadrol and Dianabol stack of 100mg (adrol) and 50mg (dbol) respectively, split into two daily supplements (50/25 x 2).
I'm running Deca/Test/Eq (600/1250/800) and results are fantastic. I keep a bit of Tren in there too, but lots of warnings from pros about 'instant' bad sides in the most experienced with too much 19-nors, especially in combination. I am hammering my calves and quads in an attempt to get them up to par with what can only be described as a runaway chest.... top deck is exploding whilst legs are being stubborn.
Will Nolva (Tamoxifen) be a suitable AI? I have routinely used Aromasin (Exemestane) in short runs and it works well, but I want a smoother routine for my body these last eight weeks of bulking. I hear some chatter that Tamoxifen may not be suitable, however. Should sides take me over, I have Letro on hand and plenty of Aromasin to go back to old protocol, but like stated, I want to put more 'stability' into the AI of my cycle.
Has anyone stacked d-bol/a-drol into a like deca/test cycle with Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) with success? Did you feel the results were better than on Aromasin? Worse?
So far, I am up about 16-lbs of very lean gains with another 20-lbs desired (even 30 if possible) and I want to put a large portion of that onto the legs.
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Darron614I'm gonna keep this short and to the point...
Nolva = SERM
Aromasin = AI
There is only one AI to choose from here, so there should be no debate. Save the Nolva for PCT.
What good is an AI for possible gyno from oxys? it doesn't aromatise via the CYP450 family of enzymes, It aromatises through a different pathway so an AI will do jack.
Also to control gyno issues on dbol can take a dose of AI that affects gains because dbol converts to methylestradiol which has a 30% higher affinity for binding to estrogen receptors in breast tissue.
jeez, talk about posting bad advice.
This is the one to you should stick with nolva bud, you'll be glad you did.
shirlsguyOrals add some bit of confusion to a simple matter. I am very lucky that AAS seem to take to me quite well, so in this case, I am not 'battling' sides, but more trying to get the most out of my cycle. This alternative conversion process is the one I was looking to get to, I just became confused. I'm out to limit estrogen conversion because of all the meds combined into a pretty advanced (to me) stack.
Now, if I get onto Nolva, and sides hit me, I could always run a blast of Letro? I am indeed quite curious to see how a bit of Nolva affects this cycle... it is going well, but like anyone investing money into regime and diet, I want to get full returns. About 20mg ed a nice starting point on the Nolva?
The 10mg nolvadex is all you need to prevent gyno from anadrol. If you still get gyno it will not be from the anadrol but from the test/dbol. So yes letro will help while you are on nolva if problems arise
shirlsguyIf I could learn to say so much in so little! +1
VewiYou said below-----"Tamoxifen can raise serum testosterone by (large numbers reported) "
True but this is only after a cycle, or not on a cycle. Tamoxifen does help in the raise in serum testosterone because hit helps your testis make more LH (LH is what your body uses to make test)-- nolva helps restore the hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - and the natural production of testosterone but it also helps sperm motility, and sperm count.
Taking this on cycle will not help raise your test, no matter what you think, it cant happen it..
That's why in a PCT you use Novadex and Clomid.
Novadex--makes LH in the testies
Clmoid--works by blocking estrogen at the pituitary. The pituitary sees less estrogen, and makes more LH. More LH means that the Leydig cells in the testis make more testosterone.
shirlsguyThis answers a lot of my dilema... I am naturally TRT so raising my level to even double would not help my situation. This makes more sense, thank you.
Thing with drol is it does have an effect on estro and prolactin.. it is not that out of this world for a guy to find himself with leaky nips on drol.. others my not have this issue but if you get it you won't be happy.. smartest thing to do is keep prami or caber on hand just in case.. otherwise yeah I like drol/dbol.. the strength and pumps are pretty intense. I choose to inject them to help with toxicity.. as for nolva I just throw it in when nips become sensitive
You're right mate, it does have an effect on E2. Trouble is, is that people don't always get bloodwork to prove it, so they are clueless and just carry on. The last time I ran anadrol was a year ago, it was incredible alongside test, the mass it puts on you in a short span of time is great.
If you lower its dose and throw in a lowered dbol dose is has a synergistic effect.. wonderful pump and strength gains
Definately something I will look into, if its even better than stacking anadrol with test. Dbol is good too but the loss of appetite really did a number at first until it passed.
shirlsguyThat synergistic effect is what I am after. That seems consistent throughout bro science.
Anadrol can cause E2 issues as it is suggested that though it does not aromatize, it can activate the E2 receptors or stimulate E2 through another pathway, so an AI might not be considered effective as they deal with the aromatase enzyme only - whether it is blocking them like letro's ability or destroying them like aromasin. Tamoxifen is a serm and could be suitable, but it acts as a weak estrogen, so I wouldn't want to use it with a 19nor like deca - be prepared for gyno. It does happen but we are all different, so you may be fine. I have never stacked anadrol and dbol together but have run each one with test at certain points in my life. My two cents brother, I hope it is of some benefit to you.
im running this cycle test/deca,eq and had a dbol kickstart, im going to add drol in soon, havnt used it with nolva although somebody did advise me too, i decided not to take that advice and im using aromasin, i added letro in for 4 weeks, then switched back to aromasin! i like what j223 said!! so x2 on that!!
shirlsguyLots of good feedback here. I too use the aromasin, but wondered if I might see some nice results from Nolva for the eight weeks remaining. Pages of claims about benefits from Nolva so I'll probably give it a run. I really have very little estro sides, perhaps for a stint when I load up a cycle, but they dissipate and seem not to come back. I use Caber for the 19-nors and even there I don't seem too bad off. I do get some nice white tips to the nips, which tells me I am pretty much pushing the threshold (just right I believe) and that less would not be good there. I am pretty sure I have that side dialed in.
Mostly what I want to avoid is the on and off method I end up with the suicide inhibitor.
So, here is what I am thinking now: Nolva 8-weeks, Letro 4, weeks while knocking down accumulated BF from the bulking and then a textbook PCT for a good solid Christmas Vacation rest to my body. I MUST go off cycle for a bit this winter.
I never thought of the Letro as a regime... always thought of it as an 'uh-oh' med when things just got too far. I don't want to do a 'cutting' cycle per se for November, but I 'do' want to exit this cycle with a nice short ester rip/winny finish while the deca clears... that Letro seems a nice touch.
I added the letro as I had severely high estrogen and developed a lump under my left nipple, with in a week it was gone, but I continued my letro protocol, honestly I felt amazing!! I love letro it made me feel so damn good all the time!!! yea I run caber aswell, expensive shit!,
never needed anything for drol. it doesn't aromatize and its not gonna cause prolactin issues.
The main thing is keep estrogen from testosterone and dbol under control with an AI like adex
Oh let me add that you only take nolva with drol IF you start getting puffy nips, but only if you need it.
shirlsguyI'm also thinking of anecdotal benefits (like immune and lipid)... though, of course, that has the offset of possible reduction in IGF.
Right now, I am running bareback for the AI, just cabaser for the 19-nors. As I was running Aromasin, not worried about any rebound, so I will add your feedback to that above and continue w/o unless sides appear and then go with the Nolva. Like I said, I can always jump on the Letro if things get hairy.
Cheers, you always have good feedback. Thank you.
Why exactly are you completely avoiding aromasin?
shirlsguyI am looking to avoid the suicide inhibitor effect and see how my body reacts to just a bit more available estrogen as I have been on cycle much longer than should have been. As much time as I run with no AI at all, I think I should be fine, but absent a complete regiment of blood work, I just want to try out first hand.
Also, I read a lot of bro science that says Tamoxifen can raise serum testosterone by (large numbers reported) and with a deca/test cycle on old school numbers of 2:1 well, I'm depleting prescription SUST 250 by 5 amps per week... well, if I can run Nolva and increase serum test.
Lastly, I just want to see if Tamoxifen can carry me as an AI through a heavy test cycle and no better time to risk bloating than on a good bulking cycle.
I suppose ultimately, I just want to see how I run on it. I have always been an aromasin man and certainly no complaints, but I want to see how the other half live. This is a good time period to risk a couple negative sides as I have plenty of time to work them out.
ok so you don't like adex and you like aromasin but you don't wanna take it? You should add some proviron at least bro just for SOME estrogen control. You are not going to grow more or less with or without an ai or nolva!!!
The raises testosterone stuff by ai's and tamox have more to do with being on pct! Since you are injecting testosterone you can raise them as high as you want! Get some proviron and add that in for some free test and to help with keeping estrogen under control if you wish to not use an AI
shirlsguyProviron has caught my eye a few times. Answers are great in this thread, I am getting a better grasp. If I go the proviron route, I believe it will be a completely new cycle next year, but for now, I am thinking much more of just sticking with the Aromasin....
"... if it ain't broke, don't fix it..."
Vewi--