When to decide..Time for a new compound?
This is a question for personal reasons but also a general question that may help others.
I have currently only used test and DBOL and I'm on my third cycle.
I'm still seeing great results and I'm not on the "more is always better" wagon.
My question is when did u guys integrate additional compounds into the mix. How many cycles under your belt before you started using tren if you have ever uses tren.
And if I was to decide to incorporate something into the mix in the future, what would be a good stepping stone?
Understanding that certain compounds may further be benefited from depending on what ones goals are at that time, that would fall under the individual to research these specific compounds further than determine possible side effects. Proper dosing protocols, half life, ancillaries that may be required etc...
If you care to chime in I would just like to here how many cycles u have done and when (which) cycles started being different as far as upping your doses or adding more compounds. Maybe when u did your third test only run and noticed u only put on half as much as your last knowing your diet was spot on
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Drop the dbol and try winstrol.
In 17 years I bet I've done nearly 40+ cycles, but I don't keep count. Bro, the way you have written your post suggests that you may believe that the right cycles and compounds are the key to sustainable growth. No matter what compounds you run, as you get bigger and stronger, progress will slow down. Were this not the case, the Olympia stage would be filled with men at a 400+ pound stage weight after all these years and all the changes and developments and evolution in steroids and peptides but this is not the case.
Your question has no "right" answer in as much as - well you should introduce Tren after your 6th cycle and see how you react. Or, after cycle 8, it's time for Trestolone (MENT). If you're getting decent results with basic chemicals, continue to use them. If not, you can experiment but the wisdom here is only one new compound per new cycle so you know exactly how you react to that drug.
The standard runs like Test/Deca/dbol for a bulker can serve you well for years. Yes, you can up the doses as time runs on. The goal should be always to figure out what you need from personal experience and not get excessive as you will be just wasting chemicals, throwing money away, and damaging your health with nothing to show for it.
Changing your training methods and finding out what kind of program makes your body grow and feeding yourself will eclipse anything you think you can accomplish with anabolics.
BendTheBarbellYour right I should've worded that differently. And that's why I'm asking so I can learn. But it makes sense the way u guys r putting it and the bigger u get the harder it is to put on mass
The more u guys comment the more dumb I feel for asking but mostly I just wanted to see experiences and when u guys incorporated New compounds and why. The vast detail u r sharing is awesome though and is clearing some things up
And yea I was sort of thinking certain compounds worked better for certain ppl. But yea I really should've proof read my thread before I posted it :-/ sorry guys. But I mean for instance I jumped on a DBOL kick start for a test run on My 2Nd and current cycle to have the BENEFIT of the kick start. It was only my 2nd cycle so there was no other need to add dbol to the mix other than the fact it is very fast acting. I'm using it again for that benefit but nothing else because I liked the results. But to b specific let's say I wanna continue a cycle to pct while waiting out the esters of test e. Would u suggest to someone test p? Or something else like var or winny? That's just an example. I know guys who use deca for their joints and that's the soul reason they threw it in the mix. U guys r pretty heavy with knowledge so I apologize for sounding like an utter moron. Thanks as for ur reply I really appreciate it. I can read all day long but when I interact it seems to put pieces together.
Bro, you don't come off like a moron and I hope I didn't make you feel that way it was certainly not my intention by any means.
I think what you will find useful as a guide to how different cycles work is to look at the archives of the cycle log section for cycle proposals that were well commented on and reworked and ended with an endorsement from the community for the member to go ahead. In those threads you will find out how thinks work, how to wind down particular chemicals into PCT, why certain oral compounds are used on the back end of some cycles as finishers and the whole litany of questions you no doubt have.
You can find a properly laid out cycle with just about any compound you can think of in the archives. If you send me a friend request I will accept it and you can PM me with any bizarre questions you may have. I want you to take the time to do your own research bro. You will learn more than having me just spoon feed you information to use a phrase we use often around here. No questions are stupid bro, but you must not be lazy.
BendTheBarbellThx I'll pm u. Err I didn't look hard enough for that section thx for the advice. I may delete this thread seems pointless now :-/
I wouldn't delete this at all. Why? Because we have members with your same question lurking in the shadows that don't have the confidence to post. Please leave this.
RustyhookerI used winny/test in spring and dbol/test winter for many years. If your diet and gym is good you can look good keeping simple.
Curiosity later on got me trying new ones. Tren is a monster that I dont enjoy.
If i didnt have fucked joints as it is making most days in the gym painful id run prop/winny instead of var, jeez would i save a ton of friggen money, and not have to worry about underdosed or fake product.
RustyhookerI ran top notch winny at 50ed split. My joints cant do it either. As a youngster just 30 was more than enough, right from pharmacy.
I like var better but it kills my appetite. Perfect if cutting plus the strength boost is impressive. But forcefeeding is there too. Lol
BendTheBarbellWhat I would like to do in a FUTURE cycle is add a little something at the end while waiting out the test e esters. I was thinking var because it is mild or maybe even just prop sense it's less costly.
Var is a nice finisher for a cut, for a bulk it doesnt make much sense, like rusty said and it effects me the same way its murders ones appetite, unless youre just immune to that but it definiely suppresses appetite in most people. But for a cut, its a great thing to add at the end after youve been busting ass cutting fat for all those weeks, then you add var for say the last 4 weeks of the cycling while youre pinning and run it during the two weeks youre not and waiting to start pct and if youre lean enough it will really harden you up, bring out the vascularity, give you that dense hard look, and give you some pretty fucking awesome strength gains even while dieting and cals and carbs are low. It just depends on your goal, if your just bulking then a prop taper at the end so levels never drop, and its so much easier to figure out when to start pct, 3 days after your last shot of prop pct starts and if it still hasnt fully cleared at most 5 days after last shot, so if you start your pct 3 days after you only lose 2 days of pct. Compared to long esters where you could lose a week running your pct meds and them doing nothing because 2 weeks was not long enough to clear. Or you could run your dbol the last 4 weeks leading up to pct, Ive never had much success using "bulking orals" at the end of a cycle, not sure why they dont blow you up at the end like they do in the begenning, but youre fimilar with dbol so you could give that a shot. If it works strength will go wild again, despite what everyone says dbol is king of muscle building, no other oral will put that much actual muscle on you in that short peroid of time. So you youll gain a bunch of new strength, add a few more lbs of LBM. So you got some options here.
But the most important part is if bulking increasing those calories, and recalculating your macros ever few weeks to match your new bodyweight. Adding dbol or prop at the end wont do much of anything if you havent increasd your calories to match your new bodyweight. cause during a cycle you should be atleast 10-15lbs heavier towards the end and adding that to your bodyweight requires a totally new amount of calories and macros to gain and keep gaining.
Rustyhooker^^^^^^old school teaching. Thorough!
if your having good results keep it basic. i only started experiment with tren when i started competing, and even now with quite a few shows under my belt the only time i run it is the last 8 weeks pre contest. irongame has it laid out for you, focus on increasing food and killing the workouts and the rest will fall into place. food is always more important that gear.
as far as when you should start incorporating new steroids into the mix i think it all depends on your goals. if you really want to be a competitive bodybuilder, things change. if your just trying to look good at the beach then its a different ball game. at 26 years old, i would take your recovery seriously, that would leave 19 nors and EQ off the table for the most part, because they can be very difficult to recover from.
in my personal experience, i prefer in the offseason test, lots of it. nothing better than test and food for growth. at 190lbs and 5'11 you should be able to do plenty with just a decent dose of 500mg test. maybe when things slow down a little bit and youve got some mass on you, like 220-230+ you could consider upping the test to 750 or so and reevaluating your cycles then.
If your seeing results with that cycle why change it ? I know you get curious about all the different gear but when you start adding nor-19's you are also adding a whole new set of issues that may occur if you can stand a 20 week cycle. Equipoise would be a gentle compound to add hardly any if any sides but it has to be ran at least 16 weeks test e and eq with dbol kicker Don't even consider tren unless you are prepared for side central
BendTheBarbellI should've said tren was just an example. I'm nowhere near curious about 19s because I've researched and it's too much for me to fathem at my lvl of experience. I'm just curious about how y'all do things. Personally yes all I'm running is DBOL 30 mg ed and test e 500mg ew an exact copy of my last cycle I added nothing new. But I'm not gonna wait to learn :-) I enjoy hearing your experiences because it adds to the knowledge base. IF I ever add another compound I considered anavar at the end of a cycle in the future
I hear you on wanting to learn bro, I spent probably 6-8 months researching for my first cycle of just test, but it was pretty fucking cut and dry, i dont get how so many people fuck that one up lol, 500mgs long estered test, for me ai on hand, wait two weeks after last shot for pct, and during all that I learned all the typical sides etc etc, so it didnt take to long, by the time I was ready to start my first cycle I had a vast "book knowledge" of most of the other commonly used drugs. It just fasinated me to the point where I would spent alll my free time reading about it. Id spend hours everyday just reading about the different drugs, and in my mind I never thought I was gonna use them, i was just gonna run a cycle or two and be done, never ever get to the point of adding a new compound but I wanted to read all I could on everything i just loved it. I was the same way when I was natty and just started lifting, I spent those years doing the same thing, all my free time went to reading about different training methods, different ways to hit the muscle, target different parts of the muscle, all the kinds of differenet diets, how to optimiize natural hormone release, OTC supps, just everything i didnt wanna waste time makiing mistakes, I wanted from day 1 to be doing everything as correctly as possble so id start getting results from day 1. Thats just how i am when i get into something I REALLY get into it.
So i get it bro, just read and read and read, so many people post their personal experiences with different compounds on this forum and all over the net, so much info right at your finger tips. But reading and book knowledge will never replace hands on experience as we all react differently. For example I remember back before I ever ran anadrol, I had read about it god knows how many times, profiles on it, medical literature, peoples personal experience. I had ran dbol in the past and I would hold water on it big time, so when before i ran drol id talk to some friends and ask them about their experience with drol and how it compares to dbol and i remember them saying oh you think the water from dbol is bad, its way worse on anadrol. Then when i finallly ran it I hardly held any water, and the water I did went straight into the muscle instead of subq like dbol making me just look full as hell and strong as an ox. Not the least bit bloated at all. Thats just one example. I have many lol. But have run, read around.
Well honestly, the correct way to do it is when you are no longer getting results from your test and dbol. Which for the average gym rat just trying to look above average thats all one really needs. After using other compounds its made me wanna just go back to the basics like your running. Every cycle aim to further perfect your diet, and the results should just keep on coming. But if you ever wanted to cut Id use some anavar the last 6 weeks or so. After all this time cycling thats what ive came up with, test and dbol for bulks ( i like sust) and test and anavar for cuts. When my chaotic life becomes not so chaotic and I finally get the chance to compete and im not dealing with buying houses, wedding etc, then some other drugs will come into play. But IMO thats when it comes time to run a little more then just some prop and anavar, getting ready for a show, but only when youve ran the drugs before, you dont just decided to do a show and go from test and dbol to a stack of 4 new drugs. But for now just trying to add size and eating big and training hard sust and dbol works for me, and I add a little npp for my joints and to help repair this partially torn proximal bicep tendon and to lube up my shitty ass painful joints, and its got a nice anabolic effect. I dont deviate much from that cycle, havent cut in a long time but i will lean out before my wedding with what i said, some prop and var.
I dont think there comes a cycle when you only add half as much as you did on the previous, there becomes a size, when youre 5'11 190 I could put on 15lbs during a cycle easy, decent amount being muscle, now sitting around 230 those days seem to be over and 10lbs total weight gain im calling a success. This is why bodybuilders arent 400lbs, the bigger you get the harder it becomes to add muscle. I remember watching a video of ronnie, i think it was his most famous video and he talked about how so and so helped him add 30lbs over the last 7 years thats about 4lbs of muscle per year, blasting some big doses of gear and other shit we dont even use. See what im saying?