+ 1 Stimulants vs Hormones for strength (Pre-workouts)
I wanted to share my own experience and see if this has been the same for you guys. My goals are powerlifting and strength. I have gotten the best strength increases from caffeine and other stimulants as opposed to hormone-based pre-workouts like TNE, TRNE, dbol, tbol, winny, A-bombs and Halo. My reactions to some of the hormone based pre-workouts have been anything from raging boners with mild strength increase to lethargy with no noticeable strength increase. This is with consistent caloric surplus, high protein diet and sleep as skimping on those always leads me to failed reps. I have gotten better results out of using those hormone compounds in a cycle of at least 2 weeks in length though, but as pre-workouts they don't seem to be as effective. Has this been your experience as well?
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I take 3g l-citrulline and a 200mg caffeine pill. I will also throw in 5mg cialis occasionally. I’ll take the cia before bed since I train first thing in the morning. Works well for me—great pumps and good energy.
Dmaa it's not completely banned yet, and get some poppers. Makes you feel like an animal with zero crash.
Controlled substance where I am,
I am a little surprised I have not yet seen a source stocking DMAA. There is just something with taking DMAA + caffeine + listening to music which just massively increases my motivation to lift more weights, reps and stay in the gym longer till my muscles are cramped. Music feels so much more enjoyable on DMAA
Though I only take it for early morning sessions (40mg) as the noticeable effects are much more prominent and last a lot longer than caffeine. Regular high doses can cause ED.
it never gave me ED; BUT it gave me a feeling after I pissed that I still had to go. But my God; I take 100mg of it and I am lifting as if my life depended on it. If you do take it; you have to cycle it like sdrol. 3 weeks on 4 weeks off. I live where it hasn't been fully banned yet so I can buy it at some gyms in my area or I travel to the next state.
Sodium/Caffeine 30-45 minutes or so before heavy loads coupled with a large Nicotine dose (in the form of dip.)
Ya want @BullDozer5 in here pal - He's the Strength Tank on this site
Nothing ever put the weight and muscle on me like a quart of quality food at intervals, coffee before workouts and very planned sleeping patterns. Ten years of great workouts took me from 140-lbs to 225-lbs and we didn't even have whey protein. Sadly, age did make me dependant upon TRT doses for a better quality of life and it appears that my body won't reach a lean 100+kg without a bit more than coffee. But if your body is still raging on healthy diet and coffee, more power to you and well done! I do believe the rumours that Lee Priest would take a fraction of the AAS I do and he gets twice the size... genetics play the key roll. I'm taking a guess that you just have them.
AnonA little cup of coffee is all I use for pre-workout. I don't drink any energy drinks or use pre-workout mixes. I tried some pre-workout mix before and it made me feel kinda itchy.
TricepatopsThat is probably the beta alanine in the PWO. It has a mild flushing affect. Also your blood vessels are opening up so your getting more blood flow to your skin causing a itchy type feeling.
Anonit was some stuff called C4. The guy at the supp shop I go to handed me a few sample packs at the counter while I was buying some BCAA powder.
Its in a Chrome and Yellow cylinder isn't it?
I don't get much from caffeine so I really try to avoid it. Best for me is adrol 2hrs before workout with about 60g of vitargo and 5g creatine to load up the muscles.
I forgot to mention creatine, Its one of my staples. If I haven't loaded on creatine for a while, creatine HCL tends to load faster in my body than monohydrate.
If you have a diet of more then 3K calories, eating these foods will get you all the creatine the body needs, There are more sources, but this is to get you the picture. Why supplement if you already consume it?
Food Source Creatine (Amount/100g of food)
1 Herring Fillet (raw and dried) 1.1g
2 Beef patties (raw) 0.9g
3 Herring 0.9g
4 Beef steak gravy (juice cooked from meat) 0.9g
5 Salmon 0.9g
6 Beefburger 0.9g
7 Pork 0.7g
8 Black pudding (blood sausage) 0.6g
9 Dry cured ham 0.6g
10 Lamb, top round 0.5g
11 Chicken breast 0.4g
12 Rabbit meat 0.4g
13 Tuna 0.4g
14 Cod 0.3g
15 Beef cattle heart 0.3g
16 Ox heart 0.3g
17 Beef cattle cheek 0.3g
18 Falun sausage 0.3g
19 Hot dogs 0.2g
20 Mortadella 0.2g
21 Sausage 0.2g
22 Fish sauce 0.2g
23 Bovine tongue 0.2g
24 Frankfurters 0.1g
25 Bacon 0.1g
26 Milk 0.02g
28 Cranberries 0.002g
30 Lactofree 0.0001
I've preached Creatine for years - I find it works extremely well with Tren and Dbol for a huge increase in power and energy when lifting. Caffeine without a doubt does work but it makes me feel too edgy and anxious and DESTROYS my already small appetite whilst its active, and often puts me off my meal after training. Test Suspension / TNE is a hormone compound that without a doubt works for instant strength. I find it extremely effective before deadlifts for lifting bigger, works so so for bench. Dbol does work very well for pre-workout strength but you have to know how to use it - load it say 3 to 4 hours before training and consume as many basic carbs and dextrose thereafter with fluid to load the muscle with Glycogen. Its surprising the number of people who do not know to do this with Dbol. The other stimulants you previously had listed I have never tried as I know they will be too much for me if I already don't tolerate caffeine well. Halo and Abombs I do not find effective before training, but great as a general steroid for recovery overnight etc. Still to try Tren Base to see if its as good as TNE.
TricepatopsEver tried theacrine it is similar? Also they say if you take Theanine with your caffeine it combats the negative sides Jittery feeling anxiety etc.
No I haven't actually bud - Have you ever used Kre Alkylin which is PH balanced creatine? Supposedly its not as acidic in the stomach and causes less stomach upset?
TricepatopsNo I haven't used that brand.I used creatine back in the day and I was on date and had to fart. So I thought is was a fart it was actually a shart. Lol. So yea that would be a great creatine for me to try. I right now like GNC lit PWO it only has 250 mgs of caffeine but I don't take a whole dose and I add in some more citrulline and agamatine sulfate. Thought maybe if you wanted to try caffeine again those two might be worth trying plus l Theanine helps your body with stress and helps with the anxiety.
I may give it a try bud
Ohh yes if there is one thing creatine is excellent at its bringing on a full blown diahorretic shit within 10 seconds of drinking it!!! LMFAO Esp if you are on Tren too LOL I have learnt the technique on how to guess if its a shitty fart now - let it go into the colon as if you were to fart then halt the sphincter the very last second and 9 times out of 10 if it burns the inside of your ass its a no go!! Caught me out the last time when I was filling my car up with petrol - stood there thinking it was nothing more than a harmless fart then the dreaded follow through happened and I'm just thinking OMFG get back in the car as quickly as possible and head home - and hope no one sees the back of my trousers in the meantime .....
RustyhookerMany of those you listed arent pre-workout supps. And some you listed could be IF used properly.
My stimulant....coffee. If youre damaging your heart valves to lift an extra couple pounds.....go figure. Not for me
I agree with you, coffee (caffeine) is king. I've removed the reference to the other stimulants as they are are known to have some caused heart issues before.
RustyhookerMakwa posted 1 proper pre-loaded workout. Whats your choice and are you using them right?
Rustyhooker@gamejiachex .... maybe im goofy but i like outta the box thinking. Theres many ways to skin cats.
Half life is why i dont see many items as a pre-workout...yet, theres possibilities. If you know tne gas a half life of 4ish hours (oil changes timing vs suspension) then sure! Half is your peak...peak is wanted towards end of workout so you are letting the chem really fuel its reactions. Pin your dose 1.5hrs pre with your long chain carbs. Medium carbs and protein bout 30mins prior.
Downside can be an e2 spike but following good bloods and ai choices..... keep it in a good range. (Tne or suspension)
So sure youre now pushing the peak thru workout but digging deeper is what is really making that workout better? The food choices! Short chain carbs will spike your natural insulin responce and shove the bigger carbs and protein into your cells. Your chosen chem is doing its job in speeding uptake and use. And if youre blasting hard and lil added aggression/focus then you really kicked ass.
I've done my share of TNE, I just don't get that much more aggression/focus out of it, I just get horny as hell to the point that I'll skip my workout to bang some random tinder chick or even be tempted to go to the dark side with a cute tranny. The e2 spike is not bad, maybe a few tears while watching anime later or some acne, but i'm lucky to not be gyno prone and I have plenty of AI and estrogen blockers to lower it.
Thanks for the input though, I'll play around with pre, during and post workout nutrition to see if that makes a difference. I just normally eat fruits, granola, whey, washed down with some stimulant-based pre-workout 30 minutes before I start my workout. I warm up for 20-30 minutes and I'm pushing the heavy sets right at the hour (after eating). Drink another whey about 45 minutes during small break and do my volume sets last. I then eat a good sized simple/complex carb and lots protein meal after.
RustyhookerI just started that Vitargo like makwa mentioned to me a few weeks ago. Hes got food pland all laid out in his forums. But yes, those carbs/foods prior make good changes. Feeling a great pump gets ya pushing harder. Lifting weights only burns carbs. So thats a good base to review on timing
I have tried adrol, 50mg, 100mg, 150mg an hour before workout, not much difference after 50mg, there is some slight strength increase when using as pre-workout, but.. 50mg/a day for 2-4 weeks gives me way better results, crazy strength after 1 week. 100mg/a day gives me heartburn after a week even with TUDCA, NAC and milk thristle and its not much different from 50mg/a day for me. This is all with a base of test cyp 140mg a week (split into twice).
Something I forgot to mention, as I focus on strength I usually leave 1 day between workouts, if I miss sleep or something feels off I might wait 2 days between workouts.
I take it you have tried Trenbolone have you?
Yes, I had to lower my rep range when on tren E or Ace because I was running out of breath. I could handle the other side effects like insomnia, sweating and the cough, but the breath thing becomes an issue after 400mg/week for me, it starts to limit my workouts. I've only done TRNE oil mixed with TNE and winny oil, I got the cough once and I don't think I injected enough tren to get the breathing issues. It wasn't that much better for me than TNE.
What rep ranges are you typically training in?
usually 5-8 for squats, deadlifts & weighted Pullups. I had lower down to 2-5 reps while on tren because it was very uncomfortable to go higher reps. Bench and Presses were not affected.
I was going to say 2 to 5 is generally okay but 6 and over is always winding on Tren. I find Creatine definitely helps with getting breath back, in studies it has shown to increase aerobic capacity by something like 25%. You have to think if ATP is increased in muscle and general muscle energy as a whole, then recovery is always going to be much better and shorter. Dbol offsets the tren winded feeling somewhat also which is why I include the inject in my daily pinning routine. I have experimented with various rep ranges though in regards to fatigue - and if you are going to failure with every last ounce of energy and strength you have each time you will always be heavily fatigued for several minutes after, no way around it. I grinded out a deadlift last night and was knackered for 5 minutes after it, there was nothing left in me Lol
I often feel shattered with Adrol in training too, I guess this is down to the big increase in BP so when lifting big and heavy the heart is working much harder leaving you more breathless.
I have experienced some lethargy from Adrol at higher doses, 50mg is my sweet spot. I handle increases in BP pretty well as I normally don't have high BP so temporary spurts don't wear me down. I think its the liver that causes that tired feeling for Adrol.
I would say its the general feeling the drug has and maybe the way it affects the nervous system, Superdrol is the same. If you notice that removed lethargic feeling comes on straight away after taking them and the liver doesn't get affected that quickly. Its over longer periods of time where it suffers - This is why Elite lifters will smash 300 to 500mg Adrol per day for 3 weeks rather than 150mg for 8 as believe it or not it affects the liver less. It is where it is stressed for long periods and isn't allowed to regenerate for some time that it gets unhappy.