+ 4 Injuries / joints and ESTROGEN
As many of you know I've had my share of injuries and medical nonsense over the last few years. Theses days I've got no cartlidge in my left knee, my right hip and my right shoulder. Particularly when it gets colder, I get a fair few issues with joint pain / stiffness etc which certainly first help my training. Chemo earlier in the year doesn't seem to have helped a great deal either ;)
So, DECA is a good friend to me. Makes a fair bit of difference. As we all know, it's not the easiest recovery from DECA cycles so certainly not something that's involved in every cycle I run. What I have noticed is some days it's better than others, deca or no Deca.
Let's review what I'm running:
Test cyp
Sustanon
Deca
Anadrol
Mast
Proviron
About 4 weeks in. The last two weeks I'm creaking like an 80yr old. Why? So I checked my blood work. Nothing silly out of range, but my estro was towards the lower end of normal. So I dumped the mast and prorin largely as I find a slight elevation in estro helps build muscle. 7 days later, my estro was creeping up above the middle of the normal range and my shoulder considerably less irritated. Another week later, my estro was just above the upper end with my joints all feeling considerably better.
Am I telling you to let your estro go mad? No. Most definitely not. There's actually quite a lot of solid data suggesting high estro in men in terms of long term health is a VERY bad idea. What I am saying is there are other ways of helping the issue of aches and pains for those of us with a few miles on the clock. The game we play can result in injuries, having extra tools to deal with them is never a bad thing.
So my plan is to keep my estro just above the top of the normal range. I'm not gyno prone so I'm confident doing that. Should I start enjoying shopping, owning more than two pairs of shoes etc I will react with an AI. In the meantime, I'm a bit more pain free.
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You are right sir and found all what you talk about last cycle I did . Adex it's strong 0,25 e3d when I'm on cycle perfect keep the estro a bit high to build my muscles and not hurt my left shoulder the most common injuries for body builder.
RustyhookerBut then you have source preaching to crash estro to magically have more test flowing. We know that crashed estro stops all gains. But newbs dont...lol.
" Of course perfect world you run Proviron, Armidex, and Nolvadex so you have estrogen low, the T receptors open and the estro binding locked out as well and that way the T receptors are wide wide open and you are getting the highest possible effect from the T therapy. My theory on it anyway.
To me for the small cost of those ancillaries everyone should always have those in every run. Why have a giant engine and then choke the flow of fuel so to speak ? If you slow estrogen to minimal production, stop what is left from binding to T receptors and reduce the estrogen effects as well (and reduce it attaching estro receptors as well, and increase the T effectiveness by knocking out shbg & albumin..... well then You have a ton off Free Test left to be focused on muscle building and protein synthesis"
DECA and sust are my two favorite compounds. I don't bring my estro low especially in my off season need good amount of estro to help pack the lbs on. I also don't train every day , started training EOD and sometimes every two days for recovery. With the physical work I do everyday low estro would kill me. Only time I would run mast and proviron is contest prep. The only time I'm willing to deal with glass in my joints is contest prep an even then its a long shity road for a few weeks. During contest prep the last fucking thing on my mind anyways is libido and my sex life lmfao no energy for that shit.
This is why we preach to people blood work because if you don't get it , its all a fucking guessing game.
RustyhookerSore joints and feeling crappy, dry skin...yuck. the fish oils etc just cant fix the things your body needs. I like to be at the oilly and horney level.
Shoe buying.....haha!
I recently crashed my estrogen. I had bloods done about 4 weeks after I dropped my AI and my reading came back at "< 15". According to the labs, a normal reading is equal to or less than 39 for a 45 year old male. In addition to joint pain, achy muscles and slow recovery (or so it felt), my libido went to hell. Has anyone experienced decreased or absent libido in addition to the other symptoms?
Pretty classic low estro symptoms.
Ya I had the same symptoms. I did the same, crashed my estrogen, dropped my ai and it still took ages for it to come back to normal, at least a month if not more. Worst experience ever, libido was shot I literally didn't even think about sex, didn't wanna stay up for more then like 5 mins before my girl had or blow me again lol, every joint in my body hurt, I was tired all the time, wanted to sleep forever just overall terrible experience. That's when I realized how potent proviron is as an anti estrogen and how so many myself included underestimate it. I don't anymore I'm real careful about when I add it into my cycle now.
Yeah, I was taking 12.5 mg's Aromasin ED and 50 mg's Proviron. I dropped the Aro but continued with the Provi so maybe that's why my estro continued to stay low 5 weeks later when I had my bloods done. Thanks for sharing that.
The tightness in my left elbow got worse the last time I used an Ai, it's always slightly their but very more notable while estro was low. 2-3 weeks after it was back to normal just a noticeable slight tightness. If it ain't one thing it's another with me these days lol.
I'd compare the feeling to when I'm on winstrol, think winny was the possible start to my elbow issue, never had it till I tried win a couple of years back and it's been their on and off since. Dried joints are a real issue that might be the start of future problems this is my experience of making things worse for yourself.
I avoid ai's till it's absolutely necessary nowadays.
I'd describe it in the same way, but more severe than winstrol for me. My shoulder in particular does not like low estro.
I have tried everything under the sun for joint relief, glucosamine, fish oil whatever and nothing worked. Only thing that made my joints feel young again was letting my estro creep up on my last cycle. I do say that was even better than using deca around 150mg/wk. I have always been using provi with my trt, but I think I am going to quit that for awhile to see if my estro creeps up and see how the joints feel.
Exactly the same for me Mak. To be honest if I doubled that deca rose having my estro run a little high is still a way better option for me.
Giiiiiirl, let me know when we hittin up ferragamo!
On a more serious note, I've crashed my estro in the past, and I've had it on the lower range, and I must agree with you. Letting it go slightly above the normal range just gives a much better overall feeling.
Thanks for sharing your experience here. Excellent point. I must say having crashed my estro before the way it made me feel - especially my joints. These days I alway try and maintain at the mid to upper level of the range. Guess that where I feel the most "normal". Thanks again.
I find higher estro helps with my medical rehabilitation.
Wish I could afford the GH,Just read it helps the new tendon growth to push into the bones.
(attach)
That's my sweet spot as well. Lower I do look better but feel like shit. I feel a little softer keeping it higher but that's offset by feeling a whole lot better overall.
AnonSame here.... I once used adex to get my estro low and looked good but felt bad..... I like it a little elevated but not much
That's a good point you raised, definitely NOT a comp prep technique.