wolfy0434's picture
wolfy0434
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+ 2 Should I drop ai on cruise dose? Pics labwork

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B&c for years now. 5'10 215 to 220 lbs around 11% bf. Just finished a blast of 200 test 200 npp and 100 mg tren alongside 12.5 mg aromasin twice a week. Been on cruise for about 3 to 4 weeks with the same ai dose at 150 mgs test c Got bloods done and will post below. The ones that say Sept 22 are the current ones.

My cruise currently I noticed achy cracky joints and low libido. Based off the bloods should I drop ai completely or lower dose. In the last my cruise was 200 mg and would need an ai. Last time tried to drop it to 180 mg without ai and thats when my e2 came back over 100. Sides I got was puffy face and puffy nips. So what do you guys think I should do.

Also should I keep my pinning to twice a week? Or maybe even pin 150 mgs a week with one dose of 12.5mg aromasin on pin days?

https://ibb.co/VqS1BFT

Gh0st's picture

Not the easiest to read/interpret the labs you posted but assuming that is a most recent trough level around 780 and E2 at 12 as mentioned below. You’re pinning twice a week to get 150mg total. Test dose appears good for TRT but cutting your aromasin dose in half and reassessing symptoms as well as retesting labs in a few weeks weeks would be my first recommendation based on your history of high aromatization assuming you have symptoms with that as well. Like Rusty said E2 is important. Cardio/renal/neuro protective. Don’t want to kill it off, but don’t want issues with it either assuming that’s what your symptoms were related too and not diet or BP or other things.

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wolfy0434's picture

Thanks man. Would you lay off the ai for a bit then reintroduce it since e2 is so low? Or just drop it to one dose immediately?

And when would be best to take it once a week. Just pick one of my two pin days and take it then?

Gh0st's picture

Tell me the exact pin protocol. Amount and days injected. And amount of Aromasin taken on what days. And what day labs were drawn that gave this result.

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wolfy0434's picture

For the most recent one where total test was 780 and e2 was 12. I was doing 75 mg test c twice a week. Monday and Friday. And taking my ai dose of 12.5 mg aromasin twice a week on Tues and sat. I got those bloods drawn on Thursday morning.

Gh0st's picture

Well done brother. With that, I would drop aromasin dose to 6.25mg on same dosing schedule and reassess again with same protocol otherwise in another 3-4 weeks.

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wolfy0434's picture

Thanks man. With e2 being so low should I run no ai for a week or so before introducing it again at the lower dose or just go right into half dosing.

And one more thing. I use ugl aromasin in capsules. So it's a pain to sperate the powder evenly. Could I get by with just one pill of 12.5 mg once a week instead you think?

Gh0st's picture

You certainly could hold the Aromasin for a week to let it come up some.

That is an issue. Not only separate evenly but can’t know how much is filler vs actual AI. In that case you may want to change to once weekly injections and dose the Aromasin once the day after your injection when it’s at peak plasma level. Not ideal, but probably the best you’ll get. Aromasin does not have a long half life in comparison to other AIs but is easier on the lipids.

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wolfy0434's picture

Thanks man. So yea due for my 2nd pin this week of test today. So maybe I'll pin that with no ai, so that'll give me a week away from the ai and then pin 150 mgs of test in one dose next mid week and take the one dose of aromasin with that and keep that schedule for a bit

Gh0st's picture

Yup and next blood draw would be 5 days post pin, 4 days post aromasin.

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wolfy0434's picture

Thanks man appreciate the help. You don't think I'll crash my estro on the one dose?

Gh0st's picture

I’d certainly hope not because overall you’re cutting the aromasin dose in half but test dose stays the same. It’s not crashed currently just on the lower end so it wouldn’t make sense to me why it would, right?

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wolfy0434's picture

Makes sense yea. Wasn't sure since it was two days after my dose and e2 was 12 did I crash it the day after I took it?. Based on your knowledge you think it's gonna be too high without it? I do like the idea of taking a week off the ai then starting the 1 pin 1 aromasin dose per week protocol

Gh0st's picture

Honestly I think it should end up being pretty close to perfect. Certainly not high high anyways I would be very surprised. Your total test may go down slightly as you’re leaving a little bit more to convert to E2. But Repeat labs will be the best indicator and only time on this protocol will be able to tell!

I just saw you mention here in the past on a similar dose without AI your e2 was way too high and you had symptoms. If you hadn’t mentioned that I’d say try without it completely for a bit then retest.

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wolfy0434's picture

Very true. It's so hard to dial in especially when using ugl hear. You never know if one batch is overdosed slightly or underdosed. Thanks for the help man appreciate it. You still think drop the ai for this week though then start back up mid next week?

Gh0st's picture

My pleasure brother. Yes, shouldn’t be a problem with that. You can always add more but can’t take away.

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Pcushion's picture

I personally would drop down to 100-120mg lay off the AI and give it a few weeks then run labs again. As Rusty was saying your test high.

wolfy0434's picture

But test is only at 780 on 150mg you think I should drop lower?

Rustyhooker's picture

Whats your full numbers on trt? Test...e2 etc. Thats the real tell tale. Crunchy joints dry skin...drop ai but in order to see doses its blood tests. On trt you shouldnt need ai. Unless self dosing....yolo

wolfy0434's picture

Test was 780 and e2 was 12. Posted a pic above

Pcushion's picture

I agree man. I personally consider 200mg a cycle, but everyone is different. I do have to give the OP props for running labs.

wolfy0434's picture

Yea currently only do 150 mg for my cruise. Test is only 780 on that though with e2 at 12

Rustyhooker's picture

Definitly! Its impossible to sort out without the science. The rest is deciding risk vs reward

Rustyhooker's picture

Testosterone way over healthy range....with newly posted pix.

wolfy0434's picture

Test on 150mg was only the 780 one

Rustyhooker's picture

One says 780....other for same date shows way over range. Way over range would need ai. With i could post picture for easy comparison. You can submit picture.....

Rustyhooker's picture

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Rustyhooker's picture

^^^196.3 is above range. So why is it same date shows 780 which is in range. That makes no sense. The 196 would be above safe/normal and ai needed. 780....12 e2...no ai is needed. Chart needs better clarification

780...12 is low estro...stop ai. Normal is 25-52

wolfy0434's picture

One is total test and the 193 is free test. The 46 is from Oct 2021. The only ones were looking at are the Sept 2022 ones

Rustyhooker's picture

As above stated.... 780 in range.... 12e2 is very low. No ai. Normal is 25-52.

Get off ai a few weeks with youre 150 trt and retest so you know if youre back to stable again. Easy to crash e2 Smile

wolfy0434's picture

Thanks man appreciate the help. Yea was taking 12.5 mg twice a week. You say drop completely not just cut dose in half?

Rustyhooker's picture

On trt...normal range your body deals with e2 in a good way typically. Its in its 'norm'. You can retest in few weeks to prove/disprove your bodies action though. Im not using ai with 850 total...but we are all different.

Low e2 isnt good for cardio heart. Heardening of the arteries comes from low estro. Estro keeps veins pliable

wolfy0434's picture

Thanks yea we're just looking at the numbers that say Sept 22 under them.

Lifted-presence92's picture

Heard recently on a bro chat with Ian vallarie microdosing helps the need of ai as often and never needing one on trt these are Olympia bro saying this so yeah lol

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wolfy0434's picture

Due to work it's a pain microdosing. Also when I tried 3x a week my e2 was still super high

Lifted-presence92's picture

Has some people will have different readings not everyone is the same. I use slin pins 1/2 both pecs, rear sdelts, and Lats. Rusty or makwa can give you good information on bloods.

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