posted Mon, 11/13/2023 - 07:30
2733
+ 4 More Test or More Compounds?
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For the seasoned individuals in this community, I have a question. When formulating a cycle, for those who, like me, consider 500 milligrams of testosterone a satisfying dosage, is it preferable to introduce additional compounds in subsequent cycles, or should the focus be on escalating testosterone while incorporating an aromatase inhibitor?
Thoughts on what builds more size and strength as well as health risks.
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There are other compounds that I can’t talk about in the open due to health risk and abuse. However it takes years to dial in the perfect growth cycle. 5-6 cycles isn’t going to do it. Why? Because more then likely cycles 5-6 your going to fall off, life changes, injury, losses, diet, etc…….. you’ll find a sweet spot then you’ll hit a point where it’s seems everything stops. Yes test is one of the best building blocks my Tren sweet spot is 300mg a week some smaller guys I know are higher. It all depends on your Genetics.
What people need to focus on first is have I optimized my diet and workout routine to elicit maximum growth. I always say that you can pin test and multiple compounds till they leak out of your ears, but you will still not grow if you don't eat right and provide the proper workout stimulus. Steroids don't make up for a shitty diet or workout routine
Some straight up old test in a moderate dose will take you long way in your bodybuilding career when you are eating and training right.
The truth of the matter is once your body is in an anabolic state it will grow if given the nutrients and stimulus to do so. Anabolic is anabolic. I touched on that a little bit in this post: https://www.eroids.com/forums/general/general-talk/how-much-anabolics-do...
Once you hit a certain level of test it becomes more beneficial to start adding additional compounds. This due to the fact that there are multiple pathways in which steroids affect the androgen receptors in the body. Test/DHT/nandrolone all affect the receptors through different pathways. This is where synergy comes into play. (Test + more test = 2) Whereas (test + nandrolone =3) or (test + nandrolone + DHT = 5) and even better yet (test + nandrolone + DHT + anadrol = 10)
You start getting more bang for your buck after a certain point when stacking steroids then just running test solo. You can't just stack steroids willy nilly though. You need to know the basis of what each steroid is derived from. Stacking Test/EQ would be less synergistic than say test/Deca since EQ is just another test derivative while Deca is a nandrolone derivative. I have simplified this a bit since you have differing binding affinities and anabolic/androgenic ratios, but I think you get the point with all things being considered equal.
I'm a firm believer in stacking steroids to hit all the different receptor pathways to run the most efficient cycle. Test is just the base and has to be in there because without it life becomes miserable (trust me, I have done cycles without test and they are not pleasant). I really like running cycles with test low enough to where I don't need to use an AI. 250mg of test is plenty for me but depending on the other compounds in the stack it may need to be increased so I don't crash estro to low. (Primo, EQ and mast are culprits for crashing estro.) I will have a more successful cycle combining 300mg of test, 300mg of DHB and 300mg of mast than I would say running 1000mg of test with way less side effects also.
Keep mind that anabolics alone, no matter how much you take or what you stack will only take you so far, but it will take a long time to reach that point. There are a lot of other compounds in use in professional bodybuilding besides anabolics that are required to push the body to the extreme (with their own set of consequences also.)
I wish there was like a machine that could do a scan on your body and tell you exactly what you need to add or remove to be growing at optimal state. Like it would tell you “you need 20 more ounces of water a day, an extra hour a week of training, 10 more grams of protein per day and you’d be in optimal muscle building state” lol I know it’s not possible (yet) but I’d would be cool, or to know if your over training or eating more protein then you need to, or need just a few more mgs of test or whatever it is to be at 100%. Someone start doing some research and make one of these things lol
Just curious in the example cycle we made for February would it make sense to add a bit of primo or mast to fire on all the androgen receptors?
https://www.eroids.com/cycles/february-cycle-review
I always add mast when running NPP. Just helps me stay tighter with NPP which will cause a bit of subq water. It is a nice addition with a 19nor but not essential. Run the cycle you have laid out and then run it again with mast and see if you notice anything. I wouldn't bother using primo with that though. If running primo, that is the main compound and focus of cycle and not to be used as an ancillary like mast.
Thank you Makwa!
I knew Mak would give a Great answer to this question
I say just low dose test and enjoy the benefits
What would you say is low dose?
100mg ed10 days even better every 15 days Defeat the mental aspect of more is better. No it isn't....
It comes down to what are your goals and what are you trying to accomplish? Is your diet 100% locked in day in and day out? How is your cardiovascular health? Are you training with intensity on a consistent basis? Is your sleep adequate for optimal recovery? I was always on the larger size natural as a linebacker in hs and juco prior to my AAS use. I had a three plate bench and 4+ plate squat as a natural at 19 and getting insanely huge was not really my intent. I wanted to add 20-25lbs muscle and be a lean 225-235 on a 6" frame while pushing for a 4 plate bench and 6 plate squat. Personally I like minimal test and letting the other compounds do the work. Tren Ace Is my compound of choice. But then again I never tried 1-1.5G of test because it never fit my goals or what I wanted to accomplish. Are you shooting for a pro card, are you a novice just looking to make some monster gains, are you looking for a shredded lean look? It all really comes down to what you're trying to accomplish and how much risk are you willing to take in the long run as this stuff all comes at cost later down the road in life.
This also depends on what cycle you are on is this your first one or two cycles or are you experienced and want to push the limits of your body? Early on in your AAS life 500 test is plenty with maybe an oral of choice. The bigger gains are made in the diet and consistency.
I just wanted to comment on the other side of the coin. Sometimes it's about what you don't run and for how long and keep the training up, that's the key part to keep training, the aim is to keep an off time for the same amount of time that you are on
After some heavy research I've realized that a lot of these guys die Young or early that are in the sport due heart failure, what they're finding is very large amounts of collagen content or deposition in the heart. They attribute this partly to nandrolone use, but that's because they have only been research studies based on it and testosterone. Some here and there on primo. Apparently nandrolone is 11 times more damaging on heart tissues than testosterone
Regardless, they have found that training without the steroids in the system for the same amount of time that you used the steroids, will almost bring collagen levels back to baseline. And that's the way to decrease the collagen, is to train without anything in your system..
Some of these guys are just on on on off, after a couple decades it catches up. Yes you can gain more with certain cycles but what are you trading off in terms of long-term health risks. The unseen. Although be it super super heavy trading is damaging to the heart on its own.
Time off = time on seems to be the only way to counter the negative health risks in terms of what we can't protect against. Which includes keeping the good diet and exercising during the time off period, which most of us do anyhow. Personally I'm guilty of not following the time off rule as much as I should have, Im working towards it tho.
Before jumping into higher doses you can always just switch up and keep it around the dose you're working with. 400NPP + 200Test + 50mg proviron 12 weeks I still get decent gains off that, libido good. Caber only .25 twice a week. Very simple but effective. But still slightly elevated enzymes and cholesterol a little out of whack at the end of the cycle. I think it's an intermediate cycle due to the length it's run.
If you need any reference links just give a holler sorry for the long response bro
^^^^ Great post ^^^^
11 times worse than Test?? Damn, Very interesting read mate.
Good morning brotha! Yep that's what it says on paper
https://www.steroidal.com/steroids-news/nandrolone-damages-blood-vessels...
This other study they used pretty large doses, which would equal like 1000mg and 2000mg deca per week but it's more based on collagen content, I think you need to click preview PDF to read it
https://sciendo.com/article/10.1515/sjecr-2016-0021
But yeah man everything I moderation for me now a days, I've given up on Masteron due to prostate issues, no more tren ever too. I love Npp but it's good to know possible risks and how to combat them. Hope ur welll, we got some flurries last night, here comes old man winter brrrrrr
I tell ya mate the more I read of this stuff the more worried I get, the whole things a real mind fuck. You wanna stay strong and big and to do that you need to use gear, but when you use gear you damage yourself. But when you come off gear or go low you get small and weak again and soon are desperate to go back on gear to feel and look great again - its like a Junkie in limbo bro!! Is there such thing as a happy, healthy medium in this life?
I tell ya mate in 50 years time all these kids will be laughing at us as they will have access to steroids that don't damage you in any way - Safe Roidz (TM) LMAO and they will be saying can you believe all these plonkers use to take pedz that could kill you to gain muscle??!! Lol How desperate must those guys have been!!
Damn that ugh makes you think... 5 days since last pin and Im already like in 20 weeks I'm going to do this that and the other thing to make sure I get jacked again.
What I always wonder is with guys that have run gear for say 10 to 20 years and lived for training and everything that goes with it - what made them in the end say 'right no more gear, I've had enough'. Sure I guess they stay on TRT anyway so are still injecting but what really made them finally say I've had enough general cycling? Interested to hear from the older guys on here who have been through this point in their lives.
Great info man thank you!
Np! It's interesting, as our bodies naturally produce small amounts of nandrolone. Although is has almost twice the binding affinity to the androgens receptor vs testosterone. The test still beats it out on hypertrophy, that's on paper of course. So your original post and or question is actually a really good one. Also asking about health risks is important
I see this collagen protein shots being pushed through advertising everywhere lately.I personally would never take it or any type of collagen and protein. But as these guys said it's the diet and training that will make a break you. I'm a huge fan of deadlifts to build the core first. Also one other tip I guess would be to make sure and this is a absolute staple for me is the magnesium intake daily. I take 100 mg taurate in the morning, and 400mg glycinate at night. A lot of people are deficient and it's a crucial element for everything else to run smoothly. It will keep anxiety down, and help calm the CNS, making for a great night's sleep. I could get away with just the glycinate at night before bed, but the morning taurate makes for a calm cool collective day. I do not follow the 2-1 calcium magnesium protocol. In fact they both compete with each other for absorption.
Just using gear in general increases the amount of calcium in each cell especially heart cells. Which has a negative feedback by activating enzymes and actually degenerating the heart. They're finding that HGH or MK 677 may possibly be better options for the elderly with osteoporosis for bone turnover. I get plenty of calcium in my diet so there's no need to supplement with it but magnesium I couldn't say the same, if anyone where to ask what I think the best feel-good supplement would be? magnesium for sure. The oxide is a very low absorption rate, citrate and malate are for constipation, but the two I mentioned before are just really good in general to take every day.
My base stack is
Multi vit
Omegas, D3, magnesium, Vit C
Those are an absolute must, magnesium being at the top of the list. But sorry to go way off topic yet again, I do feel that NPP works better with a lower test, but hey we're all different! Have a good day bro
What do you think of the animal park vitamins? That's what I take everyday.
Loved them, but I ended up switching over to fermented multivitamins, less expensive and I feel just as good
The booberry cookie is vital…
LMFAO There is always a whole array of health supplements in his pictures then in there somewhere always is a grinder / leaves / something connected to weed LOL
That's a must have I can't tell you how many sore sleepless nights that gets me through.
I like the idea of incorporating other compounds that help with estrogen opposed to taking AI. Like Bearded said though too start low work your way up then add other compounds slowly, he really hit that on the head. Once test is at the highest tolerable dose without an AI, then bump test and add something like mast, primo or bold depending which works best for you. 1+1 = 3 when adding synergistic compounds. Test/Primo is #1, & Test/Mast is #2 in my book.
YES 500mg test E good dose ! + something for shbg ! Dht or Dbol
Focus should be on escalating testosterone as high as is tolerated without side effects without an AI and then when progress stalls and everything else is being executed as best as possible, adding an additional anabolic that is also well tolerated at as low a dose as is necessary to keep progress moving.
Ie:
200 test
250 test
300 test
350 test
400 test
450 test
500 test
500 test 100 primo
500 test 200 primo
500 test 300 primo
So on and so forth (those are weekly dosages). Then we escalate the other anabolics until you hit your previous cycles peak dose, or just above if you’re looking to grow. This strategy allows you to keep progressing through a longer cycle rather than starting at 500 test week 1 and by week 8 progress stops.
This also takes the focus off the drugs and forces you to make sure your programming and food is at the highest possible level of execution which is what really matters.
That is an excellent question. I love 500mg of test with one other compound to enhance the effects of the testosterone. Because I already know what the test is going to do to me, so let’s add a new compound in to try. That helps you determine what you respond best to and what will help out on more lean muscle mass. Just my thought and a very brief explanation. I’m excited to hear what the OGs have to say on this topic.