+ 37 First Cycle- When to take AI
I have been noticing more and more in many of the first cycles that are being posted that people are listing crazy high AI doses right off the bat. Obviously they are not reading any of the stickies here or really researching AI’s. Guys with their first test only cycle are putting AI doses in there like .5mg of Adex ED and I have even seen some at 1mg ED. Same with aromasin, 25mg/d. This is crazy and for the majority of people out there and is for sure going to crash their estro. I sure hope they aren’t getting these ideas off of this site or members from here. If so, we need to find the posts recommending those crazy AI doses for a first cycle and hopefully re-educate some members if that is the case.
Now….there seems to be a couple trains of thought for incorporating an AI into your cycle.
- Keep an AI on hand and use only if estro signs show up or bloodwork shows high estro.
- Start low dose of AI beginning of week four and adjust dosage based on bloodwork.
I am more in favor of following method 2. The reason being because of my experience during my first cycle. I had my AI on hand and was waiting for any high estro signs to show up before I started taking it. Why take something if I really didn’t need, was my thinking – inline with the reasoning of method 1. Boy was I regretting not following method 2. I was about 4.5 weeks into my cycle and I remember waking up about 3am in the morning feeling like someone had lit my nipples on fire. On fire might be an understatement too, it wasn’t a little match it was a roaring bonfire. I was miserable and immediately took 1mg of Adex. Relief does not come instantly unfortunately. For about the next 2 days my nips were constantly on fire. By the 3rd and 4th days the fire was dying down and it wasn’t a good week later after a couple more doses of AI until my nips started feeling somewhat normal. The fire was gone but they were still puffy.
So my recommendation for newbs on their first cycle that don’t know their AI dose yet, is to start a low dose of AI beginning wk 4 and confirm that dosage and adjust accordingly with bloodwork taken week 6 into cycle. Better safe than sorry in my opinion. That low dose of AI is not going to crash your estro and it can save you a whole world of hurt. For future cycles you will now know your proper AI dose or if you even need one. This first cycle is a big learning experience. This is why I also wouldn’t recommend someone running dbol or another compound because this is going to affect your AI doseage also. The first thing you need to do is figure out your AI dosage for your test dosage and not monkey everything up with an additional compound.
Some people I am sure are going to keep preaching to save your AI unless high estro signs show up and there is inherently nothing wrong with that, just beware that if those estro signs show up they might not just slowly rear their ugly face giving you time to take your AI and stay comfortable. They can bite you in the ass in an instant and show up as quick as flicking a switch and show up with a vengeance. Now you are playing catch up with your AI to control the symptoms.
So what is a good starting AI dose for someone looking to do a first cycle. For arimidex I would recommend starting out at 0.25mg E3D. Adex works nicely because essentially all you need to do is take .25mg when you take your twice weekly test shots (technically I guess you would be taking the Adex E3.5D). For aromasin, 12.5mg ED seems to be a good starting dose. Don’t start off with a crazy high dose unless your bloodwork shows you need it or you will be in another whole world of hurt because of crashing your estro.
- Bookmark
- 37
- 0
Jay1987Another top post makwa and another one for my bookmark --
Thanks brother
I agree with method 1.
Try to never use AI's in the most cases. They have also really bad side effects. I see people taking this things like smarties....
This is the last option when my estro goes really high.
You can also manipulate it with the food that you eat.
I’d like to to say. I see everyone with AI on hand. ADex and letro are non steriod estro blockers where aromasin isn’t. So I’m gathering you have to take Adex and letro at the beginning of a cycle no matter what to prevent any gyno. If your in mid cycle and get gyno Adex or letro doesn’t reverse the effects because of it being not steroidal. Where aromasin you can take during cycle and it will reverse the effects. I’ll let that sink in.
RustyhookerNot really understanding your statement....
If you gotta take adex and letro from day 1, this sport might not be for you. Crashed estro causes cardiovascular damage. And if youre hitting mega high estro from the first week, find something less hazardous like knitting or curling. Crashed estro also stops all gains, joint issues, etc etc
Research nolva for reversal. Thats what its made for is blocking those receptors.
Id guess 95% of the folks here overuse ai by administering them improperly, too much, or too late. Not knowing the difference between adex, aro and nolva. Folks hollering GYNO and theres no lumps, puff or bloods.
As it says you can’t take Adex or letro mid cycle once you have estrogen problems. Aromasin will fix that problem as well as Nolva like you said. Also it takes a lot of Adex to crash someone’s estro. I can take Adex .5 and run only 750mg of test a week and it not do shit. Letro works very well but it’s a little more stronger. I take mine at the beginning. .5 twice a week at first won’t crash your estros. Weeks 3 bump it up to .5 3 times a week depending on how much test your taking. We can agree to disagree. Also people over use AI. Lol I don’t think most people take it at all when they should be. Most people are like fuck an AI. We can agree to disagree though.
I start Adex mid cycle and it works like a charm. My first cycle where I had the flare up and the reason I made this post I used Adex to calm it down. I start it a little earlier now instead of waiting for a flair up but adex will tame a flare up and get estro under control if taken mid cycle. Relief can be felt within a couple days. Asin may be quicker, I am not sure though. Asin doesn't really seem to work for me for one reason or another.
I understand what you are saying.
RustyhookerJust wasnt understanding your approach. It sounds like your conversion is a lot higher than normal.
Most common problem ive seen in 9 years here is the bloods posted where 'normal' conversion folks are crashed at .25e3d with a 500mg split because they started adex on day 1.
Its very interesting how the individual bodies work and lack of testing getting done. The only way to blueprint ones own body.
Yes it is a lot higher. That’s why I don’t take Dbol, some sust, and deca fucks my prolactin levels up. I like to stick with the stuff that doesn’t convert.
RustyhookerSmart thinking! Theres a ton of good, low conversion combos.
^^^^this exactly. Blood testing is really the only way and remember different compounds will aromatise differently. Just because someone can run 750g of Test a week and not need an ai doesn’t mean he can run 250mg per week with some HCG and not need an ai as an example. If you’re tying a new combo out with compounds that aromatise be sure to blood test to be sure.
basskiller89x2
I always take mine from the very beginning, gyno is forever
Thanks bro... I don’t know what I’m doing though. Pics always tell though if you know what your doing. JS...
basskiller89I learned the hard way
A 250mg test only cycle landed me in gyno town
No sides, no symptoms, just wasn't feeling my nipples and 2 months later I had a tiny little ball
I wish i had red your stuff before.
With test e 600 per week,
and AI anastrozole 0.5 EOD,
started it in like week 5, too late. because by that time your situation happened to my.
and yeah, damage is done already. Fucking puffy nipples. sensitive to touch, sometimes milky.
I fucked up big time then.
My ai was in dis balance, and i know now that im super gyno prone.
RustyhookerMilky? If youre milky then your blood test should include prolactin check. Even testosterone can elevate it. J223 made a cool post about it but without bloods, its a guessing game.
Also, was your adex pharma? Real pharma?
Maybe vials miss labeled and ended up with tren or deca. Bloods are a must. ++ Top notch assistance. To the op listen to this dude. And don't piss him off.
RustyhookerOr not listening to prior advice? No bloods?
Bloods first. Take the guessing out of it.
I know i am fucked up becouse of them,
switched different brands, mybe one of them was bunk!
who knows.
cant do bloods now.
On water, sailing.
I wont piss nobody off!
I'd get bloods when it's available. Something is off
Shit man i know.
So little update, its 3rd day of PCT,
Doing everything like Rusty said.
Exact doses! So No sensation in nipple any more, but still puffy! And pyramid like!
I hate that look, you looking down to them and its like triangular! pointy little bit!
Not hard and calm like normal!
I cannot do bloods, im on vessel. Can post a pic with me outside with a mug of coffee or anything!
I have doctor onboard, but i will not ask him anything, that piece of shit will not do the bloodwork for me, but rather say, ou you be fine, take this "Night nurse " medicine, tommorow you feel better!
Just follow Rusty's advice. Probably not enough pct meds but it's better than nothing. Keep an eye out for estro rebound if you've quit the adex. You might need a couple small doses along the way. Pass that bridge when we get there
Will update it here in couple of days or if anything goes sideways!
Hope that this not gona happen!
And next time better pack for PCT!
Not my first cycle but still learning shit every day!
I am still scared shitless every time i look at my chest. Never ever i have felt so fucked up.
Test was 600mg week(Monday 300 - Thursday 300 )
For the quality of ai it was pharma! I have no idea real or not, lets say brand name was popular around here and known.
I think i should have dropped test imediatly but i diddnt. Idiot!!
And maybe use not armidex, but aromasin instead.
Thank you very much for answering me!
I really need help!
Im out of country, and packed with me only PCT, i finished in week 11 i think test, waited 2 weeks and yesterday started PCT!
I have on my - armidex like 8 , 1mg pills
tamoxifen - 24x20mg pills
clomid - 24 x 40 mg pills
I fucked up that too. mybe not enought !
Shit!
Can you please gime me some pointers how to pop them, or what can i do!
I now now that im very prone gyno, learned that the hard way, and how important is ai on hand and prami, or cabaser for testicle shrinkage! they are laky little bird egs, so small, i scared.
my estro is up, i can tell that by nipples, soft, bigger, not so ichy anymore, but still can feel sensations to pain side!
RustyhookerThe tamox should start blocking the nipple receptors after a week of starting.
What week are you on, in pct?
Clomid...100...100...50...50
Tamox/nolva 40...40...20...20
Did you use the adex up to pct? Dose?
Tnx for replying,
PCT started yesterday - did exacly what y just wrote, exact doses.
Untill this moment from about week 5, or 6, i used adex halp pill 0.5mg EOD.
I kinda feel now that that was not enough.
Becouse like i read everywhere. it just happened overnight. woke up scared , then now it comes and goes.
But for me, first time dealing with this, - scared shitless man. i dont want women breasts at age of freaking 27!
RustyhookerThats a heavy dose of adex! And it looks like you went 5 weeks before asking help? Unsure if this is more carltalk101 or i should continue assisting. I do not tolerate shady bs.
Might keep that adex dose going til week 2 of pct. Assuming you started pct 2 weeks after stopping. Give body enough time to stop the heavy conversion.
Any solid lumps or just puffy milky? If lumps, continue nolva a few weeks past end of pct at 10mg so blocking continues til natural body takes control. If no lumps....update at week 4.
Future....no high test cycles. Anyone converting that much imo needs a new hobby. This isnt a good fit for you
No Carl talk, please lets forget about that stupid mistake. :(
1) Thats a heavy dose of adex! - How is that? Should i have used less? did my reserch, asked around ant that was the dode af anastrozole every one pointed out.
2) Any solid lumps or just puffy milky? - No lumps , thanks god, its just puffy, and sometimes if i see its really like fucking womens nipple, i have this feeling that says - hey man, there is some milky substance, but its not white its transparent witeish. and like not even drops of it, but little dots.
3) Future....no high test cycles. - Hell to the yes , i will take off this for few months, and next one , if i consider it safe, will be pure test, at lower doses!
Thanks man. diddnt want to post new forum topic and just get burned. Its kinda emberecing.
RustyhookerHeavy adex dose....because for 600mg cycle it is a lot. It means you convert at a very high rate.
No lumps is great. The nolva will sort you out along with pct.
Next cycle, post plans prior and note youre gyno prone. Look into researching items like primo. Expensive but no conversion.
Tnx bro.
Nest time will bring you all guyzz on board on this.
And i will check on primo!
Will update if things get out of hand.
merinderNice
+1
Good info here Mak. Thanks for sharing.
Very nice post, thank you very much for the information. However for the ones like me with very difficult access to bloodworks, doing just 0.25mg of Adex would do fine? I dont want to wait to have my nips on fire and having to endure them for days.
And i Know bloodworks are important but in the country where I live a private bloodwork costs double than the whole
gear stack and more than an entire month supply of food in a bulking cycle. I can get a free bloodwork a year from my doctor but that's it
Someone recently passed tios post along...good information, thanks!
Nice
+1
Perfect post. As a part of the younger generation I thank you for helping us all understand the consequences of running gear and letting us learn from your experiences. Ditto for rusty, viking, and all the others that post for us to learn.
Bump!
Excellent post very informative I'm also grateful I have this sort of information at my fingertips. Posts like this stop the younger generation from making the same mistakes as the vets did when it was a case of trail and error.
THANKS FOR YOUR POST MAKWA!
Vike and I run these pretty much the same. The reality for me is I don't need an AI even with big test doses EXCEPT if you involve Dbol. Then everything gets complicated. Solution is I rarely run dbol.
Enjoyed this brother! Back in the day...no ai...bloated blimp beyong belief! Then..."bro arimadex a pill a day"...lebido crushed, strength sapped, joints like the tin man, gains stopped, actually remember losing weight. Which ofcourse my young dumb ass upped the gear...quite the snowball effect! If only I had the correct info like this at my fingertips at the time!
Now that I use minimal amounts of gear I virtually have no estrogenic sides. When I do bump my test up to 500mgs-750mgs a week the moonface will start to appear so I will run adex like stated .25mgs twice a week(sunday and wednesday) which does the trick. Anyhow I like soaking up the writings you lay down...knuckles!
Edit: Viking is right! Maybe theres times when a post should make an appearance on more than 1 forum topic...
Double Edit:you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink...the water being eroids forums. I guess if one is incline to gain knowledge one will search...
Let me explain what saddens me........ and this excellent post is a prime place for me to explain.
Live now for 3 full days and only been viewed 164 times ;(
Then on the other hand there are totally shit posts about virtually fuck all in off topic and they are bombed with views (and comments)....
Crazy................ :/
Hey I viewed it one of those times. I just didn't post. Kind of a controversial topic sometimes. I lean more toward method 1. I'll throw in 10 -20 mg of nolva periodically for the gyno. If bloat gets out of hand I'll use a 1/4 adex about once a wk. Used method 2 once and did a little nose dive. Was running 1/4 adex every 3 days.
Edit: Also think it depends on the compounds ran, the amount ran, and the individual's conversion rate to estrogen.
I meant noobs should be all over stuff like this bro..... the views prove not many are looking at stuff like this.
Tren post views are in the thousands............ lmfao.
I knew what you meant. Problem is most people don't really care about the how's or why's. Me personally, that's all that I care about. And I know I don't know it all, by a long stretch. This entire thing that we are trying to accomplish (no matter what the physical goal) can be compared to an engine. The idea is to adjust the carb (old school) for optimum performance. These guys just want to dump as much high octane fuel as possible, even if the engine won't utilize it properly.
Unfortunately, "synergy" is looked at as how much sh*t can I stack on a cycle.
Eat, sleep, lift, and when the time is right, add just enough of what you need to accomplish your goals. That's real synergy. Problem is, most people don't actually set real goals. They just think they do.
Your reasoning is perfect brother!
Did you pull bloodwork a couple of weeks after using your AI? Normally, a couple of weeks at that low dose shouldn't crash your estro which would give you time to adjust after bloodwork.
Yes, but didn't start having problems until later in the cycle. It was a long cycle and the test base was pretty low. I'm sure that both were factors. I did adjust by lengthening the adex dose intervals
Great post and I agree. I have known a few people that have crashed there estro taking to much and it was hell on them. I start to notice if my estro starts getting low my joints hurt also.
Great post bro.
Awesome post man. Thanks a lot