+ 2 HGH The truth and confusion
Ok I know this has been disused before but I want to get some views on this from this forum as I feel we have some of the best vets on here.
I am in this mental battle with myself on if I should continue HGH or save money and stick with AAS for now.
So in my endless research i come across another article on another board stating if you inject HGH Sub Q you really don't understand the mechanics of how it works.
I am not sure if we can post from other boards so to paraphrase it as short as possible this guy, who runs a performance website for athletes, states that injecting it SUB Q doesn't mimic natural release for males. Instead it mimics the female patterns of HGH. He also goes on to say that by Sub Q it doesn't give the "loud shout" signal in target tissues. He mentions they cause chronic elevations in BG and contributes to insulin resistance.
Further more in this post they discuss not doing HGH ED but EOD or E3D more stating the body responds better to pulses followed by "quiet periods"
Another odd thing I have found are studies popping up that claim HGH is not the wonder hormone BB think. They claim that most earlier studies were done by the actually companies or labs that had an investment in the sale of HGH. They stated that yes LBM increased however nothing showed an increase in muscle tissue. LBM, of course, includes everything from bones, connective tissue organs and so forth. these studies showed that on Aids patience there was actually more muscle mass produced by AAS than HGH.
Now please don't flame me on this. I am not a doctor and trying intensely to do as much research as possible and not research from AAS boards nut I look for actually medical studies. I have basic understanding of HGH, pituitary glands and so forth from college but I am certainly not an expert so that is why i brought this here.
I have used 4 kits from Ehealth and while I had every side effect you hear from HGH I really cant say i noticed a fat loss more than I expected from the amount of cardio and diet. Yes I lost body fat but I worked my ass off during that time and I just figured there would be more fat loss if it actually performed how the companies claimed.
I am trying to figure out:
1. Is HGH as beneficial as we think and if so at what age range.
2. If the goal is merely to obtain muscles mass is HGH really offering in return equal to the cost?
I feel this is important to discus bc looking at all the lab test on here I cant really feel comfortable knowing any of this HGH is legit or if it was legit at some point did it go bad.
Again I turn to this forum bc we are adults I think with very similar goals and I am beyond grateful for what I have learned and the friends made from this forum alone. I am just looking to get some real solid advice hopefully backed by medical knowledge not board knowledge? Make sense?
If this post in anyway violates or offends then please take it down or PM me to do so.
Thank you guys for all your help..this forum and members are truly changing my world....True
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Newly minted doc here who used episodic sub physiologic doses (3/4 IU 3X week) for 2 month stretches. IMO, the effects are very subtle but more global. Improved mental function, Improved skin, mildly improved athletic performance. Very useful for someone looking to improve long term health, not very useful if looking for a quick boost in any area. I mostly use it, honestly, before big board exams and it helps with long term memory retention. TRT is much less subtle, but insofar as memory it can be helpful but anything much above 100 mg/wk can actually make your memory worse. I feel that as far as strength gains, all these thing are relatively dose dependent (the more you take the stronger you will be), but as far as improving your long term health, very moderate with plenty of breaks is the way to go. As far as the long term, you want to get a little boost, while preserving your endogenous production as much as possible (which will be superior to exogenous in many unknowable ways) Just my 0.02.
I would love to see actual studies posted showing either synergy with AAS or individual test showing actual new muscle cell growth and not just LBM which does not mean muscle growth.
Iam sorry my friend this is infact a staple in competitive bb ive been doin it a long long time and ill tell ya it does work if its good, I take chinese in the off season and serostim the last 12 weeks out from usa and sub q, dont confuse urself with articles and soo called research, iam friends with pros and hire them to do my diets and my gear , its very good stuff bro in many ways iam not a big fan of all this cheap stuff out there u need alot and if its real its nothing compared to american or euro , chinese is rolling the dice with me but it works if its from the right source do ur researce on that instead if u can get ur hands on non chinese or american take it than tell me what u think
Thank yo for your input and i think you may have hit on something key. Quality. Although I know we have lab results here I still have to wonder if that means each bottle in each kit is legit and of the same quality.
As for using it as a staple in BB I am not in anyway disagreeing that it is used I just wondered if they new exactly what it did and if for the common user or one trying to lose weight it was truly the solution its made to be.
The studies I mention are both pro and con the use. The cons are not BB studies as much as studies showing that the increase in the HGH was not delivering what was originally claimed when HGH first came out. Most of those studies were made by companies with "interest" in the promotion of it.
I know from the recent anti-aging and longevity research i have done many feel it offers multiple benefits no doubt.
i also feel as many mentioned the synergy with the proper AAS may be one that produces muscle that can not be produced without it.
However with that said I again have to ask at what level of BB or a persons stage should they consider this expensive addition.
As you mentioned the Chinese versions seem to make it affordable but I cant help but to wonder why the huge difference? Even prescription test I do not believe has the same price increase as the new UG test. However, again, I have to point out that even with the top sources here there is sometimes some not so quality products discovered.
So in conclusion I understand your view, respect it but still have to wonder if there is more to this than what we have allowed to become common knowledge about HGH.
Thank you for your input...True
For what i read, this is why the pros are so big compare to us.
Will see!
Was asking myself the same questions, been on hgh for almost 12 weeks, don't see any difference on muscle mass, will start a new aas cycle soon to see if the synergy between the two is true.
I am curious how that turns out for you...my thoughts are also the synergy between the 2 and that's why I am worried about not grabbing more HGH for this cycle.
nice post! +1
Darron614The thing is that over time hgh will raise your igf-1 levels which will in turn help you build more muscle. It's not gonna make you blow up right away like dbol, but I think it is beneficial for patient people.
Well that is another area of confusion...Test also raises your IGF correct? So to use HGH merely for that is a bit costly..every medical study I have found, typical AIDS patience, show that AAS gave more added muscle mass than HGH.
The Subq and IM option is few and far between and it depends which study you refer to. There are few of reference which holds merit - the most popular below
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6889608
In general terms if you are doing "pulsing" then EOD Post Workout @ 1/3 of your weekly dose IM or SC will suffice and I would suspect there is very little betwee in
If you are doing multiple shots per day 7 days a week then there is a slight argument that SubQ injections may be better.
In terms of HGH and its use - if you are looking for BodyFat loss - from a cost and efficient perspective its a TOTAL waste of money. In fact its probably THE most expensive thing you could do. However if you are looking for medium term recomp and muscle mass - then its a very welcome stack
Now this brings me on to the other part of HGH that doesnt get spoken of much....IR and IS - Insulin Resistance and Insulin Sensitivity. HGH daily will cause you to be come IR to some degree. The consumption of Glucophage kind of helps if you take it at the right times with some carbs. However, HGH comes in its element when its combined with Insulin, Infact, HGH, Insulin and Tren are without a doubt the most strongest stacks you could take for muscle gain and recomp IF DONE RIGHT.
In terms of what you are trying to achieve and what tools you use - look at it like this
Anabolic / Androgenic Steroids = Bigger EXISTING muscle cells
HGH = More NEW Muscle Cells
Insulin = More Fuel in to Muscle Cells for NEW and CURRENT
I sincerely do not beleive anyone should use HGH for fat loss. Its a total waste of money and waste of physiological opportunity in the future for the body. A good clean diet with hard strength and HIIT for 12-16 weeks can get anyone down from 30%bf to 10%bf with some Test.
Hope this helps....
I truly like this reply. Thank you. I have also spoken with Pathtaker and trying to read up on anti-aging as much as possible to also get a better understanding of exactly the role HGH plays in both anti-aging and Body Building. I suspect they play a very different role.
The link you provided was excellent and is actually one of the sites I often look to for information. One interesting thing it mentioned was the lipoatrophy at injection sites and I have to wonder if that plays a part in the perception that fat loss occurs? I remember a time when BB were saying that HGH was able to reduce fat at the site of injection. I guess that is correct to a point but so can insulin and other SubQ treatments. So its not the HGH per say.
As for the comments on IR and IS along with the stack with Tren you have me really interested.
Do you have any post discussing the proper use of tren, HGH and Insulin? I would be very curious to read it or any like it?
I think HGH for anti-aging may be extremely important along with a long list of other things as well. What I don't think though is that for BB it has the bang often thought to have. It totally has a purpose but I believe its misunderstood as to when, how and who should use it. That's what I hope to clear up here.
Unfortunately on so many boards information is passed on, slightly changed and rarely ever verified medically. Street knowledge I guess you could say. I see so many younger members with claims of what AAS or HGH is doing and I know from my own research and years of usage that they are most likely having the "power of suggestion" syndrome. While everyone may have different reactions there is still basic chemistry involved that cant be changed.
Also I agree on the fat loss usage being a waste of money if that is all its used for. While it may aid in fat loss it certainly doesnt melt it away as was once popular belief among the BB community.
I say this bc as I mentioned in the above post there are new "neutral" studies out that have no affiliation with HGH manufactures showing patients did increase LBM but that does not mean strictly fat loss or lean muscle gain. I think that is another confusion among the boards. LBM does not strictly indicate fat loss. Bones, organs and so forth are also calculated I believe. It more of a density test if I am not mistaken.
Your description in the later of your post I really like. AAS for existing muscle and HGH for more muscle cells. I think how I will use this description is focus on the AAS for an amount of time and when reaching a plateau then perhaps adding the HGH, Tren and Insulin as you mentioned ;)
I hope we get many more replies on this from a medical perspective bc I think this is a very misunderstood issue amongst the BB community and very costly. It has caused such a demand for HGH that fakes or inferior quality is being shoveled out like candy and that scary.
Thank you for this reply and all the others. I truly enjoy this forum and thus why I posted this topic here.
Thank you..True
So interested to read what the Advance/Pro's have to say about this.