posted Fri, 02/27/2015 - 20:16
62296
+ 21 from TRT to natty again?
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I would like to hear from guys that successfully brought themselves back from TRT or continuous years of cycling to natty again.
Anybody on here done it? and what was your PCT protocol?
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That can go both ways. It depends how much estro he has floating around towards the end of his protocol. The estro being produced isn't permanent. Many people don't respond well to aromasin and always use adex instead. They just continue a low dose of adex for 1-2 weeks after the pct to give the excess estro time to start clearing your system as it naturally would. Once you start feeling your estro start to crash you're normally good to discontinue the adex.
He can use Adex if he wants but during pct aromsin is far superior. How bout it's shbg effect
https://thinksteroids.com/steroid-profiles/aromasin/
I can post ten more links saying aromisin is far superior choice to use during pct and by using Adex during pct it makes your pct less effective.Even one of the world's leading experts dr. Scally uses arimosin for pct. He won't use Adex. Noid knows his body said he wants to run Adex during pct that fine but aro is far more superior during pct
I would be curious how that all works. I have a hard time believing the estrogen just keeps building up and then when you stop the adex releases like a flood.
You'd have to have a ton of estro in your system for you to even notice a rebound. That amount of HCG can easily be controlled with adex. People have to stop thinking Dr. Scally just invented this pct thing, people have been recovering without him for a long time
Aro attaches itself there by killing estrogen. It's a suicidal ai. Adex isnt. They attach and will unbound itself once u stop taking it. He's goin to have a bunch of estrogen this pct from all the hcg. He needs a suicidal ai that basically kills estrogen. Aromisin is the only ai u should run during pct. How much of a rebound he will have I have no idea at this kind of pct but high estrogen is very counterproductive during pct. Adex is great for cycle but if u need a ai during pct it's aro all the way
lol, I cant tell you how many times during a cycle I will get a estro flare up, run adex for a week and stop with no estro rebound.
Do you have any evidence of this suicidal ai?
http://www.isteroids.com/steroids/Aromasin-Exemestane.html
It's called a suicidal ai there a type one and Adex is type two.Your going to have a lot of estrogen this pct hcg converts quick I do hope u the best bro and u know your body if Adex is what u want to go with I hope u total success
Ill be honest here, it doesnt matter what I read, theres no amount of info or people that would convice me that adex is gonna give me rebound, especially if I ran it for several weeks past stopping Hcg. I have used it so many times during cycles for a few weeks to stop itching nipples and mild water weight to control estro. My experience is what ill go with on that respect, but I do appreciate the info, and I will store it cause honestly you never know.
U know your body brother just giving some insight and hope u total success. Your in uncharted territory reAlly so please keep up us informed. Do u plan on getting blood work?
IDK, I would like to but the costs where im at are horrendous and private MD's nearest office is 50 miles away. well see how it goes once I get into it, I may not even last a month, if it turns out to be just like when I went on TRT all the pussy in me might come out cause that was not a good experience. Labs showed I had 136 natural after almost 2 months, it was rough. 19nors did that to me!
It's goin to be brutal on u. I had a pct that went bad. Stayed on to long running shorts and it took me Polly three months before I started to feel okay. The first few weeks felt like death. I can only imagine what your goin to go thru. Are u running pharma pct? Imo there a big difference between ugl and pharma pct. Your not a pussy at all most wouldn't even attempt it good luck
I have only experienced rebound from Letro and I used it to reverse a gyno flare. If I had tapered off of it like I should have for the right amount of time then I probably would not have had any issue. I have never had rebound from Adex.
How bad was your rebound?
It wasn't too bad but it took a while to show up which is why I was surprised. I was taking letro and only letro for the gyno flare which happened months after I was off cycle. It was the first time I had ever experienced gyno in 15 years so I was surprised.
I think where alot of this rebound effect comes into play is after a heavy cycle of aromatizable AAS. There is a lot of "built up" estro from the heavy cycle and stopping the AI cold turkey once the cycle is over "floods" your system with all that estro that now becomes unbound. With a lighter cycle I wouldn't be too concerned about estro rebound. There just isn't that much that can now become unbound and cause any problems. That is my bro-science take on it anyway.
we aren't talking about coming off a cycle, just simply a PCT after stopping a TRT dose....I have a hard time believing that adex is gonna do this rebound off of Hcg
I guess I personally wouldn't be to concerned about any rebound with Adex coming off of a TRT dose. The other plus about aromasin is it's SHBG properties. That in itself may be a good reason to use it in PCT to help free up your test.
ok that is something i would be willing to entertain...
x2
I know I have a bunch adex now but had always used Aro , I like Aro a lot better, it just seems to work better on me.
That is why I was asking, I use aromasin myself during pct, never see arimidex on it before, thanks.
You was spot on. Good lucking out
Yea there is definitely reasons why they recommend Aro over adex bro for PCT.
Well it's very counterproductive and can really mess up your recovery during pct
Hitman187Any success stories? Not looking good. Every cycle I get more and more tempted to start earlier ( by week or 2). This thread has got me reconsidering that and I think I may give myself more time off thanthe usual time on + pct = time off because I dont wanna live my life having to be dependent on something.
Ya know, when I was younger 22-23 ish I ran stupid continuous cycles for at least a year and a half. It was before I knew anything about pct. I eventually bounced back it just took time, like a couple of years. It didn't take too terribly long to get my libido back but man when it took me over a year to have my first kid. After that the next few kids came with one hump. No shit.
I think it's just time and making sure you hit the gym no matter how shitt you feel. Put some demand on those nuts with some explosive workouts.
My natty levels are usually in the 800's a couple of months after my cycles now but it takes a few more months to get my free test back.
But I cycle smart now. I take much more time off than just the standard time on+pct.
I would definitely give it a year if I were you. That's miserable but hit a pct, give it a little time run it again, try a few things and see what happens. I don't know how old you are but I'm 38 and my natty is still pretty high.
Just my 2cents.
AnonI have tried it but was not successful... I tried a slow taper and merged to Nolva and clomid but I just couldn't bring it back I didn't get bloods but I could feel that old familiar feeling before I went on trt
I gave it about a month after running nolva and clomid for 6 weeks if I remember correctly
That was a couple years ago
I recently came off trt for a few months although it wasnt an attempt to return to natty. Attempting to have kids is in my near future so doc had me come off and run a course of hcg/clomid for so we could do some tests. The protocol was 100mg clomid eod (I found this odd) and 250iu hcg eod. We ran this for 8 weeks and did some tests. My count and motility were a little low but doc said when we try to conceive we shouldnt have any problems, on my end at least.
When I came off the first couple were fine, felt good. After that it get progressively worse. Felt like shit, no energy, no drive, no libido, bodyfat shot up quick (this was probably from lack of energy and worthless workouts that were few and far between).
Not tryin to be a buzzkill just sharing my experience. Just be prepared mentally for the changes and hope for the best.
Have you considered possibly revisiting triptorerlin acetate for hpta restart? I remember this was a topic on this board and also looking into this awhile ago after reading an anecdotal story about a bodybuilder who used this to restart. However, I was skeptical of peptide products that were around. The other problem was the real pharma stuff was dosed way too high. No way anyone here could use it. But now there seems to be a product from Ferring, decapeptyl, that's dosed at 100 mg. I have no idea where to source this.
i'm come off twice in the past couple years. First time I did pretty standard PCT: HCG, then Clomid and Nolva 100,100,100,50,50 and Nolva 50,50,25,25
My levels were at 600 the last week of clomid then two weeks later tested at 418. I went back on
at that point since it seemed to be declining. And ran HGH for 9 months.
Just came off again a year later -- This time I did 4 weeks HCG 1,000 EoD then Clomid and Aromasin 100,100,50,50,50,50 12.5 a day of Aromasin
Tested in my 4th week of clomid and levels were only at 300. Got some gel right away and have been using a small amount just to keep from feeling like total crap.
At this point I May do another 4 weeks of HCG and then another round of Clomid and (recently found some) Nolva and then get labs again- OR just get back on. Still deciding. My levels were around 200-250 a few years ago when the Dr. put me on TRT.
this is what im looking for. if I do try to go back I figure a 8 week, maybe longer depending on how I feel, PCT. im gonna start stocking for it.
explain this a little better, 4 weeks HCG at 1000iu EOD, then 6 weeks clomid and aromasin? so 10 weeks total? was Hcg ran during active test esters or after they cleared the body? im guessing last 4 weeks of cycle you ran Hcg and then did 6 weeks PCT but I want to make sure.
also have you tried Hcg with the clomid and nolva at the same time?
I had tapered down to 125mg Test a week then about a week after my last shot started the HCG.
I added a very small amount (2 pumps) of test gel to my thighs this past 2 weeks and finished off the clomid. (honestly this is more of an experiment than anything else. I want to see if LH and FSH will decrease with the little bit of transdermal free test - or remain constant, or perhaps having improved from the last round of clomid.)
Gonna get labs this week to see where I'm at. If things are still not good - - I'm going to do another 4 weeks HCG and run Nolva during that and clomid for 2-4 weeks after.
update: Got Labs back today. Test 538.
drop in both from previous (so the 2 pumps of test gel don't shut down completely, but are def. decreasing)
LH 2.54
FSH 1.87
from this to
this, is impressive in itself.
Yea although with the lower LH+FSH it's likely only 538 because of introducing gel.
I have run the HCG with Clomid and Nolva during my PCT after a long 19Nor Cycle and recovered fully within 45 days. In fact the boys bounce back with the first 15 days and I avoid post cycle blues. I run this regiment every time I run a hard cycle. It is called the Power PCT by Dr. Michael Scalley. It works for me.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/hpta-restart...
I'm sure you have heard of Dr. Scallys power pct. I might be mistaken but I think this is the only scientific study on pct it incorporates hcg in the beginning with Clomid and nolvadex. In his revised pct he changes hcg dosing a little and has u use aromisin to combat sides the link i posted is working but go there and read and the bottom of the post s his revised pct
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/threads/187172-One-of-the-ONLY-PCT-cli...(a-must-read)
Be worth a try hope u success
this study focusses on guys that had been cycling on test and 19nor for 12 weeks, I have been TRT for the last 4 years with heavy dosing throughout. My approach to a recovery will need to be a much longer PCT I think.
I also think ill will be running the HCG for many weeks into the PCT alongside the nolva and clomid.
For obvious reasons, I am rooting for you here brother. I like the sound of HMG as well. Might be worth alternating that with the HCG?
It's 45 days long with the first 20days with hcg, Clomid, nova, and aromisin. then clomid and nova for ten more days then dropping the Clomid and continues with nova for another 15 days . its a lot more aggressive than what most people running. Either way wish u good luck if it works it will truly change your life
Depends on what your natural levels are at this point. Since test levels constantly drop as you age, going back to "normal" may be worse than you think. On a side note...unless youre "on" and trying to have a baby, probably nothing to worry about. The pressure falls on the woman. It isnt that easy for a woman to get prego.
I was thinking about this a little lately. I personally seem to recover very well after cycles. I feel turned back on in the first week. I'm in my second week of pct and I just got a blood test so I can see if I really am turned back on. I've nituced torem is way more effective than anything else. It kind of has the same effects as hcg. Nuts get large and loaded. But my thoughts on this is it's like hairloss. Some people are predisposed to hairloss. If you are one of these people and take proviron or mast you will loose 10 years worth of hair in a month. So what I'm thinking is that some people would probably get shut down because it was going to happen to them naturally. It just gets sped up through aas use. It just seems to be the case. I know some people that are shut down and then there is me that seems to recover incredibly well. Just a theory
TronThis is a great question .. I have been on trt for 3 years and am 36 now. got married and the new wife wants kids so i'm hoping there is a chance...
Hey bud don't give up. I've had 4 conceptions while.on gear. I have blast and cruised for over three years. Two pregnancy happened on test deca eq and anadrol. 2.5 grams a gear a week. Abd the last two just happen these past two months, on 800mg tren 800mg test, 600mast. 100Mg var. One woman had one ovary, she thought the Dr tied her tubes back after her ovary removal. She didn't. Provably had gallons of.cum in her over.the years. Here I come along I fuck her twice abd bam pregnant. Then another woman with scarred faopian tubes and something else got pregnant as well. I'm now getting a vasectomy. My first daughter naturally took almost a year. Since I've been on steroids, usually takes a month or two tops for a pregnancy. Its easier now for me then off cycle. I use letro as a ai. I've heard it can raise lh or fsh one of those I believe. And caber for.prolactin,But every pregnancy I've.been on a high dose of 19nor and a oral. And my kids are healthy and smart. So don't lose hope.at all on having.kids, I know it sounds crazy it seems steroids have made me.more.fertile. then natural. I use to try to have kids for years only happens once. And now being on massive cycles. If I drip a drop and pull out to late they get pregnant. Last 3 pregnancy happened within a month of unprotected sex. Caucasian men usually don't have their sperm.count lowered as severely on steroids as other ethnicities. There is a great chance you.can have kids abd continue trt. I was reading a thread with a member named cyco said he has never had a issue with being on steroids and having his kids either. Abd many bros on here have had.kids on trt and tren and all kinds of stuff. It does seem more.juicers have daughters then boys. I will say I thought gear would make.me sterile but it didn't. I learned really quickly, my loads arnt half the size they were before I used aas, but I've read volume doesn't have anything to do with sperm count or quality. And apparently it doesn't. I'm like wtf, I got.two women pregnant a few weeks apart from each other. But one just had a miscarriage, but she has had 4 other ones and had a still birth. She's not.good at carrying kids. But the other is almost two months along and going strong. Last chance at having a boy. Getting snipped
Ace VenturaI know Carlos Danger had a forum posted about a hardcore pct because he was trying to make babies. That might help. I'd also recommend looking into HMG if you don't already know what that is. Ideally, I like to run pct with clomid/nolvadex, and HCG/HMG.
TronThanks I'll check it out. I need to check into HMG though because that is new to me.
Im the same brother, always run pharma grade HMG and HCG in the final weeks of my cycle to kickstart the testi's. HMG is the go i reckon, 75iu EOD in the last few weeks, usually get 6 packs of it.
I'd have to say pharma grade HMG with a similar protocol made my last recovery from a 19nor easier and much faster. Not cheap but seems to be well worth it.
bigwillycrickets cherpin !!!