posted Wed, 07/25/2012 - 09:59
5421
-1 Supernova, buddy, pal, come on in here. We need to talk...
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I figure it's nicer to put this in here instead of threadjacking someone elses post.
Yesterday you were -4, then you went to 0 and when I last saw you were at +1. Now I look up and you are -8!
I'm not saying this makes you a bad person, I honestly don't think it does. I will say that you were lementing the way you younger guys are being treated just yesterday, but I know that my "karma" has never seen such a large swing in the course of 24hrrs. I don't know what things happened to get you + and then -, but I'd suggest you think about that, it would make you a much happier member of our twisted little family.
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So the question here is do we as an older wiser community take into consideration a young mans youth and lack of experience in both the world in general and this forum where experience counts for a lot; against him and tell him he is worthless because he is not qualified to give advise or do we acknowledge that he may have something to offer in the way of research and regurgitated data that may be of some use to us in the community as a whole. For the record let me just say that this young man has gotten under my skin a time or two because of his demeanor and pedantic vernacular, (laugh here folks), but if I were to lay aside my personal agitation at this fact and focus on the overall development of what could be an otherwise beneficial contributor to the community and aid in his personal experience then I choose to aid. Now Super, if you say something as your own then you must prove where you got your knowledge or no one will consider you creditable. This will help you gain respect in this community. Also humility will go a long way with this group. In My Humble Opinion!
CleyonI think that's where we all agree, and I believe he has gotten better on this point. He still has rough edges (as most 20yr old boys do), but he's trying and citing sources in his arguments. I'd reset him to "0" if it was in my power, but he'll come along. Nobody changes over night.
I agree except I wouldn't set him back to zero lol! There something to be said about earning your way back to good right? I mean would your girl set you back to zero after fucking up or would she make you earn it so you would respect her more and never take her for granted again!!! I could be wrong!
CleyonIf my current situation is any indication... Earn it baby! I get your point.
That was an honest statement brother....I didn't know you were in the doghouse!!! LMAO!!!
Supernova283Man what's with all y'alls obsession with Karma? If I cared about it I'd still be on my Ember account with +8.
That number don't mean squat to me.
I rest my case young man! You do not know what this whole thing is all about. I feel for Cleyon as he has gone to bat for you and you continue to prove you are unworthy. Goodluck buddy!
Supernova283Why you guys getting all up in a fuss just because I said that I didn't care about karma?
It wasn't meant to be an insult or anything. I just meant that I didn't care about karama. I honestly don't see how that's inflammatory at all.
Just my personal opinion.
If hes givin bad advice fair enough down vote him, iv feeling hes been down voted by same guys time and time again because they dont like him, hope this threads not been opened so people can beat him with the same stick sure as hell know not many guys here would like bein called out like this!!
Supernova283Nah it's cool bro. Cleyon helped me see a bit of how I was just sounding like a smart ass. I'm going to try and cite more references from now on when I start talking sciency jargon.
CleyonAnd on that note, let's have a Mod lock this thread! LOL, glad we're good.
CleyonI certainly hope that this thread isn't being used that way! I think that Supernova is a smart guy, he seems to have a lot of book smarts which can be a benefit. My issue is with his tone, and the way he interacts with the rest of the forum. Like I said he could be a real asset to the forum, but he needs to learn to be a part of it, and finding better ways to communicate.
Nobody likes being called out, but it's a hell of a lot better than being backstabbed. That's just not the way I operate.
x2 more about the attitude than the info.
personal msg might be better option than public forum ' but hey different strokes for different folks
im gonna be honest here i was just thinking before he posted this....'This kid here won't make it another day..." Probably best favor anyone could have done for him cuase i garauntee he would have goptten banned if not for this thread.
Supernova283Nah Goth and me have an understanding. He'll let me know when I step out of line.
CleyonPM would more likely than not have gotten me a "whatever man". I thought this way we could clear the air, and it wouldn't just be me attacking him. That was never the intent, more of an intervention.
naguib123he is getting down voted because of his bad advice. im just get simply annoyed when ppl who pretend to be experts and they are clearly not. worst thing that can happen , is someone who is new to the web takes his advise and then they hurt themselves. he told some guy that it was ok to take 1000mg of test on his second cycle, that right there can cause bad side effects or worst
Supernova283Uh no. I said that taking 1000mg of test the first week to stabilize his test levels made sense.
I then posted this:
1000mg @ half life X = 500mg after X amount of time + 500mg with another half life = 500mg ...
500mg @ half life X = 250 +500 with another half life = 375 + 500 /2 = 437.5 ...
As you can see by taking a double dose the first week your test levels are going to stabilize after the first half life. Whereas if you just do 500mg a week your test levels are going to take 4-5 half lives to stabilize.
The choice between a single half life where you have an abundance of test and then you stabilize vs an oscillation of high test, then lower test, then high test, then lower test over the period of 4-5 half lives is what I posted.
There are plenty of people who do large second cycles. I mean most people here will tell you if you suffer any sides at all in the first week it's just placebo. And it's not like I told the guy to run trenbolone or anything. And who are you to judge whether the guy can handle 1000mg for a single week or not? Do you have experience doing this as your second cycle? Do you have his genetics?
Gothic said he's run large cycles early in and hasn't suffered bad sides. Just saying that I gave bad advice isn't really a decent response.
Not only that, but this data holds true to any dosage. The dosage here isn't the point, it's the first frontload which was the point I was trying to make. You could run a first double dose of 10mg of test and then run 5mg for the rest of your cycle and the stabilization would be the same (obviously at that dose your own test production would play a larger factor in the cycle since you probably wouldn't get total shutdown, but you get my point). The numbers I gave were an example (using the numbers he gave), not what I proposed he run.
I don't pretend to be an expert. Almost everyone here knows I'm only 20 and have no cycle experience. I don't hide this at all. This is basic basic chemistry. We're talking high school chemistry. Something that almost anyone can do. A half life is the amount of time it takes for half of something to decay. It is generally accepted that it takes 10 half lives for something to be considered completely gone.
I gave the information that I have learned. I didn't advise him to do it, I merely defended his argument for frontloading when others said that it was a stupid idea and a waste.
its your opinion and i couldnt argue with ya ' to me you seem to know alot about chemistry but because your 20 and 5'5 with no cycle history you got no chance ' what you gotta do is get rid of this supernova acc ' delete it bro and come back as big frank or somethin like that - your in your 30 s 6'2 280 lbs done loads of cycles ' some time in the pen for bustin heads ' let that alter ego run wild pal
the more bad ass the better ' im sure your level 2 in no time 
Supernova283Yeah, but that's the thing. They're right for not having much faith in the things I say. I really haven't had any cycle experience. The thing I posted might have no little bearing in the real world.
As a Chemical Engineering student I understand full well how theory vs reality works. Sometimes there are more variables that come into play that I don't know about. I posted that not because I wanted him to take 1000mg of test, but because I wanted to let people know about how half lives worked and that in THEORY that's how it should decay.
Now maybe there's rapid aromatization above a certain load level or something. I take a lot of shit on this account, but I'm a big boy I can handle it. That number next to my name honestly means diddly squat to me. If I screw up here someone is going to point it out real fast if I screw up somewhere else and I pretend to know what I'm talking about then I could actually hurt someone. Despite what people think I'm actually here because I find this stuff interesting and like to learn about it. If I can help in any way using my knowledge I try to, but it's nice to have a safety cushion.
CleyonIf I could give you a thumbs up for this post I would. Being a chemical engineering student definitely has given you some understanding that most of us (myself included) don't have.
naguib123the guy is 26 yr old. second cycle. i took a 1000 mg of test once for a week and woke up with my heart racing so hard i though i was having a heart attack. point is its not good for someone who is new, better to ease into it then cause harm
Supernova283He isn't the same as you. Maybe his BP is lower. Maybe he has better cholesterol. Maybe he has a better resting heart rate. Maybe he's less sensitive to testosterone.
Unless you were taking prop, that 1000mg isn't going to kick in for a while either buddy. Highly unlikely that your body broke down a long ester that quickly.
Either way, as I said my numbers were to show the hormone flux and I only used 1000mg because that's what he put and I wanted to show some numerical information. I didn't recommend anything.
naguib123i understand this a public forum and everyone has the freedom of giving w/e advice they want, but i just don't think its right for someone with little or no experience with gear/nutrition/gym to give advice to other people who come here for help because it could either cost them to waste there time or hurt themselves. its like me giving advice to fucken ronnie coleman. so either get some exp, or stop giving bad advice.
AnonHis advice was not bad. It is only bad relative to THIS forum. It is not unusual to have guys front load with a gram or more however, given that this is not a typical body building forum it is very unusual to see. Put your ego in check because you honestly HAVE no idea who is behind the keyboard and typing what. ( I still think Tread looks like Newman and eats cheese puffs all day)
CleyonYOu mean he doesn't? He assured me that the pic he sent wasn't photoshoped!
Supernova283Also it's not like I just stepped into the ring here. I've been lifting for years, and the only sugar I intake is lactose.
I can bench 175, Squat almost 225, Deadlift 250 and supinated barbell row 150 all @ 130lbs. I turn heads at the gym. No one has ever called me weak.
High Karma may or may not mean crap.....but one thing low karma does mean is that a lot of ppl are not liking you...... and in this community that sure as hell does mean something!
IronCladdlol...well put!
Cleyon^^^ what he said.
UFOuhh dude just needs to stop giving advice. You reading other comments and advice that others have given and then wording it as your own, is not advice. Lurk in the shadows LEARN. But sorry to say no one on here wants advice from a 130lb 14 yr old who has never touched a weight or gear in his life.
Supernova283Excuse me, but who's words am I reading and giving as my own? I'm pretty sure no one else on here talks about half lives or gives any hard numbers.
You saying I'm 14 and never touched a weight doesn't make it so. I can say you're 12 and are just some fat ass who hasn't touched a weight in his life either.
No one is forced to take my advice. Others are allowed to disagree and post why I'm wrong, but they never do. They just say I'm wrong and don't give much reason.
UFOyea saying ur 14 is a dash of sarcasm. But of all the downvotes I've seen u get they have been on posts about gear. If u have never touched gear or even come close why are you giving advice on it>? And saying no one here has given half lifes or hard numbers is just dumb. There is even a sticky thread on half lives. So read a little more
Supernova283Have you read that sticky? The numbers are wrong anyway.
CleyonOK, then if the numbers are wrong, then post a link to correct numbers from a respected source. I'm not going to defend anything based on one source (this is the internet), at the same time why should I believe that what you say are more of an authority on the subject than the person who wrote that sticky?
Supernova283Because his sticky is just based off one of numerous bodybuilding websites claiming they know the half life. All of which have different data.
I'm not going to hunt down a reputable source, but I'm sure the FDA has a reputable half life for Test C posted somewhere.
That is what is prescribed to HRT patients. I'm sure they know what the half life is.
CleyonOK, so if you're so sure it's wrong, why don't you look it up? That would be of real value to our little community.
Supernova283Why don't you look it up? That's the same reason I'm not going to look it up. It'd be a waste of my time.
I couldn't care less about modifying the sticky. No one would listen anyway. You go look it up. People wouldn't listen to me anyway.
CleyonBut, this is probably the easiest one to read...
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=ZiZ7MWDqo5oC&oi=fnd&pg=PA405&...
CleyonIf those two didn't work for you, then try this one.
http://www.pnas.org/content/92/5/1545.full.pdf+html
CleyonOr maybe try this one.
http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/content/abstract/19/6/761
Supernova283This one also says undeconate is around 18.5
Says 18.3
CleyonHere you go.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.2042-7158.1969.tb08125.x/ab...
Supernova283This one says half life for undeconate is 18.5 whereas sticky says 16.5
2 days difference.
Couldn't find any other esters
CleyonGREAT! Go forth young man and defend your honour in the Steroids section! I didn't have a dog in that fight, I wasn't saying you're wrong, I'm saying to get some impericle evidence and show it... Which is what I did FOR you...
Supernova283I've actually already tried. No one listens.
No one really cares all that much about half lives anyway. It's really not that big of a deal. Besides almost no one uses undecanoate anyway.
It's just not worth the hassle.
CleyonIf you read through them all, there are HLs for all the injectibles, sublingual, and transdermal.
I'm not trying to clown you AT ALL, I'm just emphesizing that you weren't interested in providing verifiable data. When you do that it might change the tone, if it doesn't than you have a truly legitimate complaint.
Supernova283I just skimmed. And I didn't care about the post that much. People can believe whatever they want to believe the half lives of the substances are. It doesn't affect me in any way.
I merely said the data was wrong. They can blindly accept or disagree with me, or they can do their own research like so many people on this site say to do.
CleyonDo you get my point at least? It took me all of 5 minutes to look that up. One of the things about this being a part of any community is to be factual and when challenged either back it up, or admit you're wrong. Remember, like I did when we were arguing about protein synthesis yesterday. The reason you're getting the polarizing reactions is because of the way you are coming across. That's it brother, not trying to run you off, just trying to help.