Opioid induced gynecomastia
So gynecomastia is always a big concern on cycle for men using aas. Some men also use opioid pain medication while on cycle and I've always been curious about how opioids cause gynecomastia. If you use any type of opioid pain medication you should take serious precautions or rethink even using aas. First reason is that are you really going to be able to train as hard as you should if you're in enough pain that you're taking opioid pain medication. Secondly is that opioid pain meds do cause androgen deficiency and could lead to a higher chance of gynecomastia on cycle by messing with your hormones more than you already are. I thought that this was a good read about the subject.
In women they were effected also by having estrogen and test levels drop causing osteoporosis.
Also if you're taking and are addicted to pain medication. Buprenorephine which is one of the active ingredientsin suboxone is a wise choice to get clean and was shown not to have the same effects as other opioids.
http://paindr.com/opioid-induced-androgen-deficiency-2/
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1517/14740338.2012.712109
I wanted to add this link because it talks about other drugs that can induce gynecomastia including benzodiazepines and others.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/175328-drugs-that-could-cause-gynecoma...
This is why being drug free while using aas is very important. Even marijauna has been proven in studies to cause gynecomastia i just haven't been able to find that link but it is true.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2860825/table/t1-0560344/?r...
This is a good article but also has a table of all drugs that will cause gynecomastia and as you will see marijauna is on the list.
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Here's a good idea! Don't take no fucking opioids! It doesn't actually take the pain away!
It doesn't and in the long run it causes so much more pain
I am still on suboxone been on it 9months I had slight gyno issues at first when I started cycle but took care of it right away but I don't think the suboxone had anything to do with it
Doesn't the suboxone hinder your gains?
I also have used suboxone and I do believe that it does but one of the studies above actually says specifically that buprenorephine being a synthetic had no effect on the Androgen deficiency syndrome.
Im not sure if I believe that though. Its a nessacery medication for some of us to stay clean though.
In the first link I believe it says that buprenorephine is actually not an opioid that causes gyno
opioids are like benzodiazepines . After a short time your body & brain really fucks up! NEVER use them if not necessary!
RustyhookerPick your poison. Making healthy muscle gains or go be a junkie.
It's sad but opiates are actually way way more healthy then steroids. It's not the actual substance that fuckd up ones body. It's the whole being an addict thing that dose, shooting shit into your veins, collapsed veins, sharing needles, not eating which leads to all kinds of health problems. And the lengths at which they will go to get their fix. Someone who had to take them for pain and took them as prescribed will most likely be better off then most of us. But someone who's hooked on them, I'd rather be a steroid user where I try to live healthy in all other aspects.
Hitman187Yea you pretty much nailed it. Its not the opiod doing the damage directly its the lack of nutrition, hygene, and other addict tendencies. Ive been an addict and fell apart from not keeping up with myself like i should. I recently took pain meds after surgery exactly as prescribed all while keeping up with myself and you could never tell i was on anything. For the most part once an addict gets off the opiates a full recovery can be made, it'll take a long time ( 1yr + ) for brain cells and chemical balances to restore but it will happen.
With hormones you can definitely do long term irreversible damage. Im of the same mindset id choose aas over opiates any day now and i do everything i can and some to live as healthy a lifestyle as possible. i get deep in on opiates i dont give a shit about nothing but next fix, i go about my life just existing rather than living it to the fullest. Not a fun road to be down.
True statement.
However you forgot the extremely addictive part of opiats. Can some people take them and not get hooked and use them as they're intended? Yes. However there are faaaar more people who can't. If opiats weren't so addictive they would be very useful however whenever I'm in the ER and they offer anything other then 800mg ibuprofen I tell them nah.
It's very interesting seeing guys taking "substitutes" and running cycles.... no offense but you guys have me scratching my head. If you're taking substitutes of opiats then you're still using as far as I'm concerned even if the government says it's ok while they take your money and the tax payers money. Lastly why would anyone run a cycle while on substitutes? We all preach and practice good diet and nutrition how can we preach this when Still hooked on pills? Aren't you guys just trading one addiction for another?
Actually it's the drugs they put in the opiates that are the real killer.Tylenol is in a lot of opioid pain killers.The opiate addicts you, but the tylenol kills your liver.Much worse than injectable steroids.Especially for the Bret Favre/Rush Limbaugh type addict,taking ten or more pills a day.
Hitman187If your doing certain type of pain meds with acetaminophen and abusing them it will tear your liver apart amongst other things if abused severely. Acetaminophen is only used in milder painkillers these days that are prescribed for short peroids after wisdom teeth are pulled or something, usually only given in a few day supply. It seems nowadays doctors are trying to stay away from those meds especially for longer term needs.They now have oxycodone at every mg with just straight opiod, no Acetaminophen.
I was in hospital recently for months and my pain med protocol was changed up more times than i remember, i had options to an extent but never was i offered anything with acetaminophen.
Rush was on oc no asprin im not sure about brett farve but your right ibuprofen and asprin destroy your kidney and liver
I thought Rush was on vicodan,same with Brett but that was just to point out the doses of the addicted.They tend to get way beyond therapeutic.
Hitman187Yea pretty positive favre was on vics
Dorian Yates on Steroids:
"I gotta say, any pharmaceutical drugs that you can take for 12 years way over the recommended dosage, that’s [steroids] got to be a very mild drug. I mean, this is a hormone...
You’d have to really, really abuse it and take the piss before you have any negative side-effects. If you take a whole bottle of aspirin, it will burn through your stomach lining and you’ll die. These are things you can get over the counter and that puts it in perspective I think."
RustyhookerHealthy? Going back over 28 years, I've been given funeral notices every other month non stop. My world of contacts is faily huge and yet very small knit family.
Ive not yet seen 1 person die from roids. Or overdose on roids.
What i have seen a lot of is folks changing their addictions and flip flopping back and forth between multiple chemicals are all at one time.
Hitman187Sadly overdosing has become an extreme epidemic in recent times. Thats whats killing people, its usually not just one drug its when they start making cocktails of these meds when it becomes extremely deadly. Mixing benzos and opiates is the worst and is typically what most addicts fall to.
Another being after they come home from a stint in rehab or jail. Their tolerance drops so quickly in just days. They get home and fall back into the old routine using their normal doses and their bodies cant handle it. From my experience a good 80-85% of deaths occur from this, the rest being from benzo/ opiate cocktails or when these scumbag dealers cut the shit with fetanyl. Heroin usually wont kill someone whos using it daily in most cases, you cut it with fetanyl and all you read in the papers is how addicts are dropping like flys at alarming rates.
Not arguing with people overdosing who are using it to get high. Just saying taking an opiate at a prescribed dose and living a normal life is more healthy then using illegal anabolic steroids. My bestffriend died from a heroin overdose and about 15 other people I know, its an epidemic, everyone knows someone these days.
If an addict could go in to cvs and buy a couple grams for $2.99 or $2.49 with his cvs card he could go about his day and still be somewhat productive. Just like a functional alcoholic. Instead their only focus in life is getting there next fix by any means necessary. Nothing else.
Nope, no no no
Im sorry pal, but thats not true. And, its not true for substitutes either.
What's not true?
What you said is unfortunately not in line with thr reality of how that practice turns out in the end. Systems where addicts are given their 'fix,' be it the substance or substitutes, do not yield as a result, functioning/productive addicts.
Weve tried it in Ireland, its been done in the UK, Netherlands and so on. It does not work.
Thats not entirely true I was an addict for many years and couldn't get clean. I got on suboxone maintenance and have been normal and functioning for 7yrs. I don't get high because of the naloxone it just keeps me from having to use. I run a whole region for the company I work for now instead of being an addict not being able to keep a job and ending up locked up all the time.
Substitution maintenance works i just don't believe that methadone or giving an addict there D.O.C. works.
And big kudos for your success by the way
I very much appreciate that brother i wish more addicts had a good doctor like I finnally found that was able to get me clean.
Rehab jail all that did nothing but make me want to get high.
I wish there was an easy answer
Addiction is a mofo
Be proud
Much respect
There is definitely no solid answer or cure
No i know there are no absolutes in anything, and i am generalising, and i did say subox works for some..... Its definitely an improvement on the phy and methadone programs...
but across the long term, system wide, and what it takes to get people there, id argue success is few and far between (not necessarily success rate for those who get there)
But free smack.... it does not work Nd it does nothing to treat the individual
You are 100% right the few that can get clean i believe are so few and far between because the programs like you talk about just giving them there doc doesn't work.
They need to keep working and treating addiction like a disease and I believe that they would have more success. Giving them drugs and hoping for the best definitely won't work comming from a recovering addict. You're definitely right about that
I know subox etc is different from what im picking at
Still thiugh. All considered, its the person at the core of it that makes the difference which is why you should be extremely proud of yourself
Im actually proud and amazed I was a true piece of shit back then now im a good guy and that makes me proud.
I don't at all believe that anyone who takes suboxone will be clean because it truly in all my experience being around addicts it really all comes down to if that addict really wants to get clean. The whole rock bottom thing isn't always true either because guys and gals hit the bottom and they will set there and keep using. Once the person really truly wants to stop then it may happen because even if they truly want to stop sometimes they just can't thats why it truly is a disease because after so long its not a will power or want to situation its a wired into your brain you need dope to survive just like you need water.
Sorry im going a little to deep i got way off topic I wrote this to show that opioids do and will effect you when it comes to gynecomastia and so will so many other medications and drugs.
I hear ya man. Respect.
Yeah its crazy, I never knew there was a connection. Thanks for sharing, definitely learned something and others will too!
Would you rather have a junkie rob your grandmother so he can get his fix. And after he gets his fix do you want to pay for his public defender for robbing your grandmother? Then pay his incarceration? Then his foodstamps and his welfare when he gets out? Just so he can do it all over again.
Or just give him the exact same drug he wants where he can buy it like a pack of cigarettes and he hurts no one but himself. Junkies don't want to hurt people there desperation makes them hurt people.
No i really wouldnt fella, but Its not about what id rather. There is a human cost to any trratment option. And no, criminalisation of addicts doesnt work, i agree on that.
But a free for all does not work either, with addictive substances.
It just doesnt work. The only thing it achieves is some addicts will buy less street gear. The cost to the health system will increase. Addict misery is prolonged.
Free or state soonsored drugs have never reduced addiction rates or use, and the only thing that has increased or decreased heroin addiction rate, for example, is economic cycles. Good times=cocaine, recession=heroin
But no nobody wants to see a granny get battered
I here ya, I don't want to go on and on w u and I mean no disrespect. Everyone has their views.
All in all my main point is the war on drugs, or making drugs illegal doesn't help citizens get better or stop addiction. It makes people money. Drug dealers, Giant pharmaceutical companies, institutions, lobbyists, politicians and on and on.
They want us living like animals.
I agree 100% fella
Youre absolutely right
Yup, and that's the thinking with methadone, they got get there meds and it keeps them normal for 24hrs so they can go to work etc and be a productive member of society. Over in the U.K. they actually do something similar like you talked about. They go to a place where they are supplied with pharm grade heroin, sterile shit etc and they take there dose and go on there way. Think they do it likd 3 times a day but atleast in between those times they don't have to be out stealing and scheming to figure out how to get money to get high again they can live a better life then they were before. This is reserved for the ones who have tried other treatments multiple times and failed.,heroin must be really addictive if they just say fuck it you need this shit for the rest of you life,
Nah man all that happend in Ireland and the UK is they sell their phyceptone or methadone and buy gear
All my mates used do it, before they killed themselves
That system is completely redundant altho i know subox etc works for some, but i say its in spite ofbthe treatment
Thr only thing that works effectively to truly resilve addiction is CBT
I truly believe that suboxone is a miracle medication. They get rid of all the pain and suffering you go through detoxifying and by adding naloxone you don't get high. That enables the addict to rewire there brain away from thinking that if they don't get there drugs they will die.
What is CBT?
Yeah ive heard the combo can work very well in fairness. And it worked fir you so point taken.
Cbt cognitive behavioural therapy... but im digressing
Gotcha
Cbt is like a psyc program of some kind
Yeah, Its a person and solution centered form of psych therapy. Instead of focussing on a billion hours of chatting with a psychiatrist abiut your childhood, it looks a patterns of behaviours and how to change them, ultimately leading to new ways of viewing the world abd behaviours.
Its really good in helping resolve the mental side of addiction, and fast. It caN help with lots of different issues
Helped me get past anger issues and PTSD
I swear by it
I hear ya making drugs illegal does nothing but making the governments rich and the people poor and desperate.
They are really hard to take as prescribed lol
Exactly
But also there are just medications that aren't drugs that get you high in this reading that some might not know cause gynecomastia also.