posted Mon, 03/23/2026 - 23:55
2516
+ 11 One thing this fake raw pandemic has exposed
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You can have
1. Several lot numbers in same batch or
2. Several batches in same lot number
Depends on what they run out first during the brew. So all these years of "this batch number is over" and "this batch number is under" has been a hoax for over a decade. Lot numbers and scratchy sniff verifications are a farce. This is every lab out there that produces not singling anyone out.
What else has been learned from this?
Disclaimer: i didnt right a post crucifying sources for non detectable tests or wrong compounds just about that i learned about lot numbers that i never knew before. just sharing what i learned.
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I always had a feeling lot numbers, batch numbers, manufacturing dates, and expiration dates were all just hooey and only served to create the appearance of a lab that was on top of all the small details.
I received 2 vials of a product and both vials have matching batch numbers. One vial had yellowish oil inside and had that familiar aroma of good gear. The other had clear oil inside and smelled like plastic and stinky feet.
There’s no way those 2 vials came from the same batch. Even the source told me to throw away the one vial that didn’t look or smell right but I’m dying to send it to Janoshik.
Not naming names or bashing anyone but I never truly expected the batch numbers to be legit anyway so I wasn’t surprised at all.
Yea dude, it’s mostly all bullshit.
My biggest concern over fake gear is the sterility of it ...wait tell someone has half their quad cut out ...if they are using pre brewed gear .... I mean the point to use certain sources is their brewmasters... That's what we were all after years ago for domestic not reshipped Chinese or whatever gear that's great and all but the old sources has brewers and still do some but funny how you think the larger scale stuff would be safer but now it could be trending different cause it's so popular among normies
I’d be curious to see how these mega labs handle mass production. I’ve worked a bit in large-scale pharma, and the jump in scale is wild compared to what we do. The bigger the operation gets, the tighter the sterility controls have to be, since there are more moving parts and a higher chance of contamination IF it's not done properly. This is why the FDA exists to control these things. Small scale production is fairly simple to control, large scale is a lot of logistics. Like baking a cookie at home, it's nothing fancy but you can do it easily. Now make 10,000 cookies in a day and you have a large production where the occasional cockroach falls in the batter without anyone noticing.
Depends on what you count as a batch. A new batch number should begin any time you begin filling vials again and in a normal clinical environment, it would be but in the UGL space, we often don't have the luxury of massive batches, so we can't really hold off for testing of every single item and have to do it at random using a bit of due diligence built by trust and a bit of logic. The last resupply we had on Test C for example, took 5 months to fulfill. The next one might not be received for 6 months for all we know and we may only get pieces of the same batch of raw at a time until that order is complete due to logistics that I'm sure you guys understand. So when we do test, say raw batch X09 and it comes in good, we will often assume the rest of batch X09 is good and will ride with it so long as nothing appears off and the batches remain consistent in texture, smell, melting temp, etc as we may get just enough to last the next week at a time. How we batch is below:
For verified batches, we will keep it all within the same batch number, example: 101. 1 being jan. 0 is placeholder for 2 digit months and 1 being the 1st batch of Jan. If we make a large batch and have the finished product tested from X09, it will be marked for 101, we will keep it marked 101, even if we don't finished it until feb/march, those will all be from the same consolidated brew made originally in Jan.
Batch 101 can be that we tested the raws or the finished product, whichever it was, it is now 101 and will remain that way until we use up all those raws or that brew of oils.
If a batch of raws is consolidated into one brew of oils it will be considered one batch, for example, test e we will consolidate the raws into one larger batch and mark now as 101 but we may not complete the entire process in one sitting(filtering/vialing). If for some reason we need to make minor alterations, reheat, something that won't affect quality or concentration, we will keep it within the same verified batch. Test P which may be verified from raw X08 but brewed fully at 3 separate occasions, will be marked in 3 different batch 101 201 301, even though it's from the same raws.
Batch 401 may be untested from the exact same supplier, within the same batch number of raws we received x08 (which we determined were good by the raw batch #).
Our batching works like this 101, 1 being month, 0 placeholder for 2 digit months, final 1 being if we produce the same thing twice in one month from a different batch of raws or at at a different time from the same raws as before.
It's confusing sometimes but we try to batch based on what is more convenient for tracking. On that, we almost never split the batch into separate brews and try to finish everything we've started in one go.
Where you see variation in colors from single batches could be from the same batch of raws, or even the same brew vialed at different times. Maybe 1/2 a batch was done, then the main crashed and needed to be reheated, etc. (Speaking broadly)
But I do agree, the batch number thing can be bullshit, sometimes if we are short on labels, we might just slap an old label on. so your 101 might be 201 but we're confident it's solid.
Definitely don't trust us to be on top of our batch #ing game and keep fact checking us. I think any source who fails a jano should have to repay at 3x the cost of the gear and cover testing fees, within a 7% margin.
Thanks brother for chiming I knew some vet dom sources would have some good input ..this has been a great bit of info you dropped and perspective!
This is the exact insight that we need and it helps to have so I appreciate you taking the time to explain that. I am sure with bigger operations it works a tad differently but the jist of it is the same. I do know that from experimenting at home that even from the same batch of raws you can have different colors from reheat, like you said main crashing, temp variations, etc. Some people don't know the science part of it so it's nice to have someone elaborate a little more on that from the inside. I still believe that for the most part the batch numbers match up to the batches of raws that are used, the numbers like you said change if they are bottled at different times or you receive half the batch of raws then 2 days later the rest and it's the same raws(or should be) that you just continue on with it as the same batch number. I think that makes total sense and there is so many behind the scenes factors that play into manufacturing that the everyday Joe doesn't know. But I agree there should be some type of consequence for bad gear leaving their company and getting into peoples hands. Like I had originally said I think each batch should be tested, raws and finished product just to verify and even a bottle or two from the middle of the run to ensure potency standards etc. I know that the bigger companies can afford that especially if they came up with a contract deal with Jano or someone to test however many batches per month and results are expedited for x amount of money per month etc. People shouldn't be waiting for weeks to hear back if shit they already waited a month to get is good or not. I really appreciate your input and your valuable information though! Thank you sir!
Most of us understand that ugl's aren't going to have every single vial traced back to the exact batch of raws it comes from due to plenty variables as long as testing is done making sure the raw material is what its supposed to be we/I can live with it i get scared when we start finding testosterone vials to be something else is unnerving and I agree testing should be covered if the gear comes back negative for substance stated
This is exactly what it is. Forget the lot numbering actually just leave them off the bottle. But for years sources knew this what yoked is saying but if you complained to a source like it being underdosed they would ask "whats the lot number"and just send you another lot number knowing goddamn well it has nothing to do with it and has us thinking it did. Thats the point im getting at. Glad to hear a source actually admit lot numbers have nothing to do with the price of tea in China. Thank you Yoked. The curtain has been pulled back.
That's why meta was so official. Until they weren't. Lol.
They didn't have no lot numbers, but that gear was fire. And always tested good or over.
I do my best not to bullshit anyone
I think a crazy part of this a lot of the big names are literally just names, that’s it. They don’t have warehouses, they don’t hold this stock. All they are is a middle man to these companies, and even that is a stretch. Place an order with P***** and place an order from O***** not only are they coming from the same warehouse, that same place is likely where B****** U***** and N**** are all being brewed together.
Also a huge part that I brought up in my Bold-250 post is not only are batch numbers worth nothing, but even getting them all together in one order means nothing when I’m getting wildly different colored brews in a small 3 bottle order.
I know what you mean. I feel like sources should be separated into categories of 'drop shippers' vs 'direct UGL'. This would also alleviate some of the pressure on the drop shippers as they can't really verify every batch that comes from a consolidation warehouse and are only the middle men but some of them do try to pose as being the UGL themselves, maybe they believe it increases their marketability or customer confidence somehow but imo, it's misleading.
You mean like guys that actually brew their own gear vs guys like pee-tek that just ship it over and slaps labels on it? I have no problem with that as long as they are honest about the origins. Which is never the case.
I believe some use the tactic you described to also attempt to justify their prices being in the actual ugl realm and not aas-temu prices where they belong.
other boards have requirements for sources to actually show parts of their set ups, their stocks, etc. I don't know how it would work but it's an idea . It would also change the source ranking structure as the categories could be filtered down and these smaller labs who may be doing good things, could get some front page recognition
Do you offer lab tours?
Fuck yes I wanna see ur setup.
Why not
Cmon over
I can talk about this now since it's way in the past but I did buy an RV at one point and was setting it up as a mobile lab, coincidentally I was watching breaking bad at the same time, I got to the RV episode and almost shit myself, ngl, that episode gave me what I can only assume was a panic attack and I immediately scrapped the entire idea. So much work went into that build, it was fun stripping it and reframing everything but damn breaking bad for ruining it for me
"I got to the RV episode" - You are so FULL OF SH!T hahahahaha Literally, within the first 30 seconds of Season 1 Episode 1 of Break Bad W.W. is driving the RV in his underwear with a gas mask on!!!! I made this account just so I could call you out. lol
Hahahahahahahah
I mean that's pretty much what I imagine.. @UncleYoked watching NASCAR, eating nachos and waiting for the steroid timer to go off.
ROIDS R DUN
I wish we could show you guys
Maybe next wonka ticket winner gets to visit the factory
Literally if I ever won the lottery id be willing to pay crazy for a teacher hahaha
iCONicTbh man this is just how it goes when dealing with black market anything. The community we have on here is what's important, and how we keep these sources/manufacturers/companies in check. Looking at what the community on this forum alone has done the past month is promising, and is what needs to continue to be done if we want to keep this places in check
100% I honestly expected a lot worse for being a UGL and black market. I think people have way too high of standards for what we are doing here. "Like you're not breaking the law good enough for me"... lol. But this is the only way these places are kept to any standard is by communities like this. It would be a bathtub mixed trap house gear shit show if it wasn't for places like this.
It really is a win/win for everyone involved..... It informs the consumers on problems, and creates competition between the sources. Although its not perfect, nothing ever is, its probably one of the best systems to keep transparency and checks/balances.
Yes, like i said earlier, ive learned more about this UGL in 2 monyhs than i have in 10 years
Yup. Those two different colored EQ bials says it’s not the same batch.
A silo of milk is 40,000 gallons. Our surge tanks are 10,000 gallons. So if we run 10,000 gallons from that 40,000 gallon silo that’s one batch. With a code. When we do our second run for ten thousand gallons that’s a new batch with a new code. That’s GMP. I been in this medicine and food manufacturing for over 30 years. I know how batches work. If you put the same batch number on testosterone raws but brewed them in four runs without putting a batch number on each of the 4 runs the FDA would force you to do a recall and fine you maybe even shut you down. I like that brand too. It’s good stuff but I didn’t like that
I agree, this is the proper way and I also admit, we don't also do it properly. We are a UGL, we cut corners and simplify in areas that the FDA wouldn't allow and that's the honest truth to it. We focus on putting out the best products we can and keep track the best we can but we're not pfizer by any means.
Another fun thing with medication, if you have an EXP of Jan 1, you can open up the blister packets the day prior, repackage in a bottle and restamp for 6 more months. Last day medication is a great business.
People shouldn't expect you to be Pfizer either. Some people have super unrealistic expectations for what the UGL world should look like. Honestly, for it being black market I would say things are pretty damn good for the most part. But some people just expect way too much, "like how dare you not break the law good enough for me"... then comes the well when they are putting stuff out there that goes into peoples bodies argument, well yeah you're also buying shit from a black market source, that's just a risk you take. You shouldn't have any over the top expectations for a black market substance. You don't have to buy it or put it in your body. It's just wild to me to be totally honest. I mean if any company expects to have business there is a level of customer service and product quality that needs to be there, but when people start expecting things to be how they would if it was Pharma is funny to me..
To print a different batch number in a label doesn’t take a lot. It’s a 30 second type in and enter in a video jet.
In a way you are right. We chaulk up and write off 100s of dollars when ceased by Customs but we receive a couple bottles of vitamin E we are taking up arms lol. We are a screwed up bunch aren't we?
Well, not really.
If your packages gets seized, that's a postal issue and it happens. Not technically the sources fault. If you receive bad gear, that's a lack of quality control and that is our fault.
And you don't chalk up anything, literally every single reputable company on here has a reship and delivery guarantee I have never once paid for something had it seized and not either got my money back or gotten a reship.. Like that is even more crazy! The sources are the ones who eat that loss. If that's what you ended up with yeah but it's being made right. And again you risk that every time you buy something on the black market. That's like going on the internet to buy heroin and being pissed when it's been fake maybe 5 times out of 1000 or lower quality that wasn't as strong as the last stuff you got, like how dare you send me a fake illegal substance that I ordered illegally and that I would put in my body! Lol. It just makes no sense. Nobody said anything about anyone being screwed up, I just find it funny that people expect the same thing here as they would picking up from CVS. Never gonna be like that, never gonna be close to the same. Half this shit could be mixed up in an empty toilet bowl and you'd have no idea. The point is, this is a risk you take doing shit on the black market, it's part of the game. I am honestly surprised it doesn't happen a lot more tbh, so because I don't expect perfection I am not that upset and jump on the boycott/cancel culture when something happens, nor am I surprised. I am more surprised they jump to fix it and make it right honestly. But that is what makes certain places survive and have a good reputation and returning customers, being better at being illegal than the other illegal place. lol. And which is why I don't mind giving these guys a break when a mistake happens. They take 10000x times the risk we do, and they eat way more financial loss.
Well thats why i didnt right a post crucifying sources for non detectable tests or wrong compounds just about that i learned about lot numbers that i never knew before. I can be the only one here out of a hundred users that thought lot numbers had more meaning than i thought. Im in know way pushing my ignorance on others just sharing what i learned. Thats all bud. Im slower than most these users here.
No I am with you on the lot number 1000%.. I honestly still think the lot numbers do have a meaning. They have always lined up with batches that people had and they tested them from different sources and they were the exact same results. I think there is some bullshit going on right now, but if batch numbers didn't mean anything they wouldn't spend the time or money to print them. Just put a mfg date and EXP date on them and that's it. They are used to trace back to the batches of raws used. Some people just don't understand that you can have the same batch and it be different colors if it was started and stopped or done over a period of days and was reheated etc. While that isn't the case with every place most of the legit ones that been around do use the batch numbers for a reason.
You are absolutely 100% correct bro. What's even crazier that most people do not know is that the majority of these big brands on this site do not even brew their own gear. They aquire finished oils from suppliers. This is why we get random excuses for things that make no sense whatsoever. They are usually just repeating things they are told and in that is where we realize they know nothing about brewing or the gear they sell. By not having a brewing department, they save money. However, it also creates an opening for errors like all the ones we've seen recently. They did not go from brewing good gear for years to suddenly not knowing how to brew a proper batch, but rather the raw issue was created due to certain drug restrictions under this new administration causing many companies to stop creating raws and brewing gear so these sources have had to find whatever random suppliers they can to aquire their finished oils leading to all the issues we see now. The only sources who truly brew their own product are domestics and a few select companies that have raw factories associated with them such as IL, Dragon, Sciroxx, Deus, and the majority of Domestics. Take for example, Ultima......putting out a ridiculous statement saying they received Vitamin E raws in place of Test E and C leading on that they actually brew their own products. However, that statement in itself tells you they do not because any company that has been brewing the volume they distribute for over a decade would NEVER make that mistake. They would have known immediately on sight. This tells us that they not only do not brew, but also that they are not opposed to lying to us. Ordering finished oils from random suppliers is also why the batch numbers are pointless because they get finished oils wherever they can from here and there then they have X amount of labels and boxes made so they throw the labels on and toss them in a box.
The way these companies portray themselves and what they do causes us to assume they do things that they definitely do not because if they were to tell us how they get their oils and that they use various suppliers we would not trust them so instead they portray something they are not.
I will say there could be a positive.. I think we are going to see TONS more end user hplc testing now. And we in the community will believe those results far more than sources/labs doing hplc. So the labs that are being shady will be outed. Let's be honest, we as a community probably got way too complicit with sources/labs. So maybe this was a wake up call to do more of our own testing and hold labs accountable. There are some members on here that have done many hplc testing over the last couple years, and kudos to them. Now the rest of us will need step up too.
exactly why we don't post our own results. I only share users lab tests.
In the long run, I think this is good for the community to have all this fake gear scattered around, it's dropped the trust level of the customers and will increase pressure on sources to have better quality control
Not the first time you've said that about lab testing. You much prefer users labs, as they are very unlikely to be manipulated.
This is the only forum I'm a part of, but I can tell source trust is as an all time low in my tenure here. There's a couple of small, true domestics that are still held in high regard... but you're even seeing those being tested more now, and to come. So in the end, once we get past this, it'll be much better for us. Just some growing pains for now while the crap gets sorted out
Also gonna push business to a lot of the smaller labs honestly.
Haha I’m just glad everyone is aware now bc it drove me bonkers when guys or sources would reference batch numbers or codes lol. I think the other life lesson would be stay away from pretty boxes and labels ha
Are you saying i am "WOKE" now?! NOOOOOO!!!
Always use Lube when using a Butt plug, they can be a real bugger to get back out.
lol
Thats the worse part when using water base and leaving them in for a day.
And feel free if you can change my mind if you disagree. I am open minded. 50 years old and i feel embarrassed that im just figuring this out in 2026
Reminds me of John McLane telling Al in Die Hard "welcome to the party pal" Al also most remembered by me as Carl in Family Matters with Erkle. Not sure why I typed this. I gotta put down this strong drink.