posted Sun, 01/17/2016 - 16:44
1805
+ 3 Tolerance to Juice???
ad
A buddy brought up something today I'd never thought of...He thinks his juice isn't working anymore because he's built up a tolerance. Gets pharma grade stuff so I know it's legit, stacks orals, oils, and ancillaries. He says he's had to up his dosage a number of times but hasn't noticed any new results in strength or size. He hasn't came off of juice for quite a while because he hasn't hit his goals yet, I wanna say it's 22+ weeks so far. Anyone know anything about whether someone can build up a tolerance to juice? Does not coming off cause your body to not respond to it anymore? I've never went for long periods of time on but I would assume it's not good for you, yeah?
- Bookmark
- 3
- 0
Ok so just to clear this up its not a tolerance to the juice whatsoever. It's documented in scientific articles that androgen receptors upregulate in response to their ligands, in this case AAS. So the gear actually will become more effective and you can handle more with less unwanted side effects. What comes into play most often is people forgetting they need to feed their new mass, their body fat becoming too high to promote a good muscle to fat gain ratio, or you've put on enough mass that myostatin and other internal factors put a temporary stop to your gains. Your body does not want to have to carry around and supply a large excess of muscle with energy, which is why we have those anabolism-limiting chemicals built into our DNA
This definitely has happened to me. Usually the choice becomes to come off or to up the doses. Since I dont really go big any more I just do a short pct and break and then resume my normal low/mod dose cycle. Most of the times just Test but the break definitely gives it it's kick again. Longer the break the better of course.
Great topic that is stimulating a lot of thoughts. There is some very informative info below.
That would imply a reduction in androgen receptor sensitivity. If he's at healthy T levels, that shouldn't be expected. I don't know what happens when you start to get to very high levels of T (1200+ for sustained periods as a general example)
Adrogen receptors are soaked with hormones, gonna after come off , for a while..
I See. So what do pros do when they PCT? Do they come off completely or just drop down to a low dose of test only?
Well I do 1 shot of trip from ipsen pharma come in 100mcg vial, take one shot, than I do 75 iu of hmg EOD for 4 weeks, toremifene ( fareston ) 60migs every day for 4 weeks, clomid 50 mg for 4 weeks. No test during those 4 weeks, start pct 2 weeks after you're last shot if short ester 1 week after last shot.
Thanks for all the great feedback and info. What about pro's who just cycle down to a low test dose but never fully come off of test? For example, if they're running numerous compounds along with say 1000mg/wk test and their PCT is 200mg/wk of test and maybe some ancillaries. I have a couple friends in their mid 50's who don't lift but are on TRT for just the energy benefit. They're on very low dose (200mg/wk would be high) but they also take HCG, unsure of HCG dosage, and they both take .5mg/wk ADEX (I know this is different from NOLVA, i.e. AI vs SERM). I would be inclined to think that the body may build up a resistance like what happens with Insulin in high quantities.
TRT and cycling are two separate entities. TRT is to replace what you would normally be producing. That is it. You are not taking supraphysiological doses like you are when cycling. You're comparing apples to oranges.
Right. I think you misunderstand my question...if a bodybuilder drops down from a high dose of test and other compounds as well to a low dose of test only (200mg/wk) and some HCG (same as a TRT patient) and maybe some other ancillaries too as their PCT, would that just as good as coming off completely and running a PCT with all ancillaries?
Your question is confusing. You cannot run a TRT dose AND be running a PCT. But if you're asking if a BBer drops down to a cruise dosage for a while then blasts again will he see more gains? I do believe that's what most if not all Pros do.
yes people do develop a tolerance thats why people cycle... change up compounds dosing etc... same thing goes for diet and training ...
I agree with big murph, your receptors or your friends are just too used to it. Any time i've hired a pro trainer they have both been adiment about taking large quantities but also making sure that you come off and run a healthy pct as well. Like with anything else, you body will adjust to things and plateau. That's what's happening to your friend. If he were to come off and then run pct and take a month or so off, the same doeses would work wonders when he hops back on.
I think it'd probably be better if it were longer than a month. PCT TIme = AAS Time is the accepted protocol my man.
I think your a little confused bud time on=time off if you ran a 12 week cycle.you would not run clomid and nolva for 12 weeks
Myostatin. I posted a similar topic a little while back you can find it. A lot of guys came in with good answers.
Laymans terms- more juice will equal more food which will equal more size which inturn equals more food. Food is key gymrats make the mistake all the time. Start a cycle at 100kgs diet is awesome everything in check- 10 weeks later they weigh 108 kgs stop growing then blame juice or something else. Extra 8 kgs of mass requires more food than 100kg beginning, yes diet maybe still good but its constant food manipulation, protein, carbs, fats all need readjusting to suit composition/ weight/ size. Foods is where my fingers are pointed. But it could be multiple things. Ancillarie adjustment- estro high/ low etc etc. Bloods. 22 weeks is enough anyway. Pct time.
This is the answer!!!
TronInstead of focusing on the juice and how it's "not working anymore" he needs to review how he's eating and training because there lies the issue. Don't blame the aas for lack of gains...it's not this magic oil that allows you to keep gaining muscle regardless of how you eat and train.
There is no scientific evidence to support the popular view that AAS use might be expected to result in downregulation of the AR relative to receptor levels associated with normal androgen levels.
As androgen levels increase from normal to supraphysiological, numbers of ARs in some tissues have been shown to even increase! Such an increase is upregulation. The increase may be due primarily or entirely to increase in half-life of the AR resulting from higher androgen level.
I think, the believe of "Tolerance" arised due to the more advanced and more lbm the lifter has, the harder it get's to create new lbm due to your getting closer to your genetic limit. People think they need to use more mg of gear because of tolerance, but it's simply not the case. Further it perhaps has something to do with muscle gaining. The so often refered "Tolerance" is most likely just used in the context of a gaining phase. We all know, or at least I hope most of us do, the longer we're gaining, the harder it get's to build muscle due to hormonal stuff (leptin, insulin) and muscle/fat ratio. When the gaining of lbm slowly fades down, people most likely conect it to some kind of a receptor sensitivity, where as it's more likely that other factors come into play.
Tronhttps://thinksteroids.com/articles/androgen-receptor-regulation/
Copy and paste with a few words changed around?
.....almost verbatim what that link says dude..
You're absolutely right. Sorry, I didn't think about it properly and it's against the rules! The first part is a snippet from bill roberts. Should have known better and mark it with a ">" infront of the text. Big time sorry
RustyhookerId suggest he comes in here with real stats and priors. Let the vets see whats up direct from the horse. 22 weeks in sounds like a losing battle if he's not skilled.
I agree and I'll urge him to join but I'd never thought of that before. I know the body can build up a tolerance to non-hormonal drugs like pain killers, etc. I just didn't think it made sense for a hormone.
bigmurphIt is the receptors all drugs with long term use burn out the receptors in the body hence building a tolerance this is where the phrase comes from.
Like chc said prime example is the blast and cruise you have to bring down your dose to let your receptors clean themselves then blast and make gains
X2 exactly
I do believe your receptors can become desensitized or down regulated after long term saturation. Hence why a lot of guys who are on trt and blast/cruise tell people to not self trt without it being deemed medically necessary. Just my two cents. Hopefully somebody will jump in with first hand experience.
Good post.
It's 22+ weeks on cycle? Wtf. That's probably a good reason why. The body builds a tolerance for everything. He probably should take a break from it. Time on+pct= time off.
Yeah I agree, I think his goals were a little unrealistic. Doubt he's going to take 22+ weeks of though lol
Well hes throwing his money away and suffering pinning for no reason the smarter way is the only way. I can tell you it is hard especially....when you want that endurance only good test provides. He should think to get more out of being on. The results are far better.
Honestly I feel like this is a legit question! I feel like I have built a tolerance as well... Maybe we can see if someone can come in and educate us.
I aways pct so I've never experienced this. I know lots of pros who just drop the dose of test down to like 200mg/wk and drop everything else, that's their pct. Not sure if that would cause issues either.