posted Fri, 10/11/2019 - 03:16
3076
Statins after cycle
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Hi guys I was wondering if anybody has ever used a statin post their big cycle where their lipids got messed up. Mine are perfect because of multitude of different factors (Only on testosterone as well). But I was wondering if anybody has ever experimented with trying this out to 'clean' the body up faster. I know statins have a controversial reputation but they still are good medicines that have their place. Anybody sharing their knowledge or experiences is appreciated much
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I do lots of Omega 3, 6, & 9's!
Alphamale500I use many vitamins and supplements each day for various reasons. As for lipid control specifically, I think the following are very beneficial.
-Resveratrol and Pterostilbene combined together for their synergistic effects.
-Kyolic Cholesterol Support Formula #107 which contains aged garlic extract and phytosterols.
-Plant Sterol mix containing Beta-Sitosterol, Campesterol, Stigmasterol, Brassicasterol, and Sitosterol.
-High potency Omega 3's (EPA and DHA).
-CoenzymeQ10.
-Pure Heart containing Policosanol, trans-Resveratrol and Grape Seed extract.
-Soluble fiber Inulin.
-Plenty of monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats from almonds etc.(KIND makes some very tasty bars containing these "good fats")
-Pumpkin Seed oil.
-High potency, sustained release B-Complex.
-Provinal Purified Omega-7.
And of course, limiting your intake of saturated fats.
My two cents being in the medical field -
If you’re running AAS or aromatase inhibitors or anything else that significantly alters lipids in a negative way, would it not make more sense to consider a statin (or natural alt like red yeast rice extract which is what I use on cycle) during a cycle? That’s when you have substances in your body that will negatively impact your lipids and lead to increased risk for atherosclerosis, amongst other things. Vs waiting until after cycle when (assuming you are young and healthy without any baseline dyslipidemia) damage is already done and when your body should return to baseline shortly after discontinuation of AAS? Of course this should never be initiated without bloodwork to support the need for something so strong.
Sure there are side effects from statins, some are serious. And you should 100% educate yourself to the best of your ability preferably with medical advice before starting any medication. But the way some people on here scoff at some (relatively harmless) meds and blast ridiculous amounts of gear just blows my mind lol.
goldeneraposer69Great post, thank you
Alphamale500You make some very good points bro!+
As do you brother +1
I always forget about the fish oil idk why. So simple to add 3-4g omega 3s
Alphamale500Thks. Yeah, you certainly can't go wrong with good old omega 3's. I prefer using the Nature Made brand of fish oil, which I think is one if the best, if not the best! One reason is the only fat it contains is 1g of polyunsaturated fat (a good fat). Many of these inferior products contain saturated fat or even high amounts of cholesterol, which is kind of defeating the whole purpose imo. Also, it's a USP verified product, and it's purified very well to remove all PCB's, dioxins and furans, and of course mercury.
Just use a good plant sterol, some genuine red yeast rice, policosanol, CoQ10 and some Niacin Flush 500mg x 3 per day if you can handle it. 4 to 8 weeks depending on how fucked your lipids are should see you right.
What I do is run that stack on cycle especially if running 17aa’s so they don’t get too messed up and then stop once cycle is over and eat plenty of good fats and my lipids just bounce back on their own.
Best stay away from Statins unless you’ve got a genuine medical need for them and if you do you really have no business running aas - Well not unless you’re making your living on the stage.
goldeneraposer69This is good advice man for sure
Alphamale500Those are excellent supplements for controlling lipids. In addition to those, a favorite of mine is a supplement which contains both Resveratrol and Pterostilbene. Also, Kyolic makes a great formula called Kyolic Cholesterol Support #107, which contains aged garlic extract and phytosterols(plant sterols). Another great supp I use contains a mix of five plant sterols which are; Beta-Sitosterol, Campesterol, Stigmasterol, Brassicasterol and Sitosterol. With the CoQ10, you can't go wrong with adding some omega3's.+
Nice work +2. This is building into a nice forum for sharing ideas on lipid management.
Alphamale500Thank you bro, and nice work to you also. Well, managing your lipids is a subject that's extremely important for us guys that use AAS, so we really can't get enough information about the topic! Also, heart and cardiovascular health in which controlling lipids plays a big part, is an area that imo doesn't get enough attention. Many ppl are usually more concerned with preventing liver damage or hair loss, when they should also be focusing on preventing heart and cardiovascular disease.
Btw, have you ever researched Pterostilbene or used it? It's in the same family as Resveratrol but with a much higher bioavailability rate. From everything I've read, it really sounds like an amazing supplement.
No I never have mate. But I sure will look into it now. Thanks for the tip!
Read my mind Dack. Another good suggestion I forgot about is that quick release niacin if low HDL is the main issue. Tough to tolerate but it works!
Alphamale500I take niacin that's in the high potency, time released B-Complex which I take daily. And being that it's time released, you can avoid the possible sides like the flushing, burning, itching etc. Are there benefits in using the quick release form of niacin instead of the time released? I think I remember hearing something.
As long as it is a true Sustained Release (“SR”) Niacin and not in fact Nicotinamide then it will be about equally effective. As far as I know though SR Niacin is only available on prescription (Niaspan). If it is Nicotinamide, as most “time release” B3 products sold as dietary supplements are, then it’s not going to be helping at all. Let me know pls mate - if it’s got true SR Niacin in it then I’d best be getting some.
Edit....need to check if it is in fact Niacin that it is SR and not Extended Release (“ER”). ER Niacin has been shown to be extremely hepatoxic and we don’t need to be taking a supplement to help lipids only to fuck up our livers even more.
goldeneraposer69The no flush time released version of Niacin is not prefered for this by doctors i've seen many say that btw. Including Dr. Testosterone (George Touliatos)
Alphamale500The supplemental type of niacin I take is in the form of Niacinamide (aka Nicotinamide) and is in this Nature's Bounty, Time Released B-Complex that I take daily. From what I've read, Niacinamide and nicotinic acid both boost HDL and may modestly lower LDL cholesterol levels and triglycerides.
Out of the 3 forms of niacin, inositol hexaniacinate is the type that I've read about which is said to have very little to no effect on HDL levels. But I've also read that to get any cholesterol benefits from niacin requires fairly high doses which can cause liver damage like you were saying, and also gastrointestinal problems. I was thinking that maybe the quick release niacin goes right through your system and prevents or limits the possible liver damage.
There seems to be a lot of conflicting information out there about using niacin to help with HDL levels. So for now I choose to just take the modest dose of niacin included in my B-Complex plus the amount in my daily multivitamin, and not take a chance using high doses. Because if you weigh the benefits of using high dose niacin for benefiting lipid values verses the possible liver damage caused by the niacin, I don't think high dose niacin is worth using imo.
goldeneraposer69The no flush time released version of Niacin is not prefered for this by doctors i've seen many say that btw.
Yes I agree about the risk v reward on ER/SR Niacin in terms of lipid v liver. Plenty of scientific literature showing the Nicotinamide has no benefits to lipids mate but plenty of good reasons to use it still.
Alphamale500Like I was saying, there's a lot of conflicting information out there regarding this topic. But I'll continue to use it just to be sure to get the recommended amounts of all the important B vitamins including niacin of course. I think I take plenty of supplements to maintain healthy lipid values anyhow right, lol!
In the US we have Niaspan which is the ER version. 250, 500, 750, and 1000 mg tablets. I have heard of the reports of hepatotoxicity but not sure of the incidence or frequency with it compared to immediate release.
I +2 you above mate for solid advice. Honestly the low HDL is a bit of a red herring in my opinion. I see a lot of blood work on aas users and I run a lot of blood work on myself and unless it’s gone super low or there is a genetic component at work it almost always recovers to pre-cycle levels. Running 17aa’s, some DHT’s and sometimes Tren will see HDL going low and LDL rising. The trick and primary reason for the stack above (ex the Niacin Flush) is to keep total cholesterol as low as possible and to keep the rise in LDL to as minimal level as possible. I don’t normally bother with the Niacin Flush mainly because I can’t be turning tomato red 2 to 3 times per day in the middle of business meetings (I had a colleague almost call an ambulance once I kid you not). That way when you stop the cycle and stop suppression total cholesterol and LDL and eat good fats lipids just return to baseline. I worked on that stack with a cardiologist friend of mine and it works wonders but I hardly ever bother with the niacin flush.
100%! From most of the lit I’ve read and spoken with colleagues it’s really leaning more towards the ratio of Hdl to ldl that’s most important anyways as well as particle size. And from the studies I’ve seen the niacin flush really needs to be minimum of 2-3g per day to make a statistically significant difference boosting Hdl and lowering ldl. Although I can’t remember off the top of my head if the latter is really significant at all.
I have a genetic mutation that’s inherited (pop has it too) and we both have low Hdl always between 20-25. I’ve seen it drop as low as 12 while I was running sdrol in the past. But my total is always low as well. Under 100. Usually around 90. And my ldl ranges from 55-70. Crazy how we’re all so different. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anyone with cholesterol as low as mine now that I think about it.
Every cardiologist will tell you they don’t really care how low your HDL is long as your LDL is low normal and your total cholesterol is not high. I’m guessing your and your pops cardiologists are not too bothered given your issue seems to be genetically low total cholesterol with low HDL and low LDL?
Exactly. And we had particle size analyzed which showed everything there was good as well.
Alphamale500If you're talking about just using statins as a type of PCT or with your PCT, I'd would say not to. The only way I would suggest using statins is if you have a long term problem with your lipids, and your doctor prescribes them to you. And even then, I'd recommend researching all sides associated with statin use and talking over any concerns with your doctor.
goldeneraposer69Yea this sounds wise
Problem with using them is if you have normal blood pressure already they can make you feel very light headed by lowering it & also they kill your adrenaline production via your thyroid so training becomes much harder with much less CNS strength available. Plus there are already the issues of whether they are good for your health or not, altering your heart rate and BP isn't a good idea if there are no problems there already I can't imagine.
goldeneraposer69Are you talking about a statin or Ace-Inhibitors now?
Beta blockers - aren't they classed as both?
Yes, I have used statins. However bear in mind that I am older. Also I find that over the long term they help reduce BP, as well as cholesterol. But if your young and healthy I wouldn't recommend it.