+ 1 HCG for a 28 year old on possible TRT from Doc to keep Fertility
Hi Guys, So over 3 months ago now I finished my first cycle which was test e 400mg for 12 weeks. Came of using Dylan Gemelli PCT protocol and was fine. Started feeling tired and sluggish month ago and went into my doc's to see whats up. My total test came out to be 212 (450 prior to cycle so knew this was a risk lol). Free testosterone was also low according to her.
Now my Doc wants to put me on TRT and i am cool with that. My only concern is keeping my fertility, so should I run HCG year round with this shit or should I just not care and do a fertility protocol later down to line for when I want to have kids? I read a lot of stuff even asked advice of DR T on youtube which he told me to run HCG from the get go. Still I am a bit on the fence and not sure on what to do. I would really appreciate the insight of you guys on this forum as the people on this forum are the smartest, wisest and most responsible of all forums on the internet. Thanks a lot again for helping me out guys, I made a decision to cycle and it bite me back but I am all cool with the repercussions (Shit happens). Peace friends
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Alphamale500When I'm not on cycle, I'm on TRT as well. To help maintain fertility, I use HCG year round @350iu M-W-F. I'd rather keep my testicles functioning and maintaining sperm production as much as possible, than to just let them shut down completely and have to worry about restarting sperm production. Also, the HCG will prevent testicular atrophy and also increase the production of intra-testicular testosterone. And when you do make the decision to conceive a child, if you're already taking HCG it should be a much easier process imo. At the bottom are a couple studies that have some good information on this subject.
But if fertility is very important to you, you should speak to your endocrinologist about trying HCG and/or clomiphene citrate therapy by themselves, or with a combination of the two. Depending on the type of hypogonadism you have, primary or secondary, and how your body responds, either one of these medications can be very effective at increasing your testosterone levels and fertility.
My endocrinologist started off my HRT with Clomid only treatment, and no testosterone whatsoever. And in fact, I responded extremely well to the Clomid. I believe we started with 50mg and slowly increased my dose to 100, possibly 150mg. This was many years ago, lol. Anyway, my testosterone levels were over 1500 ng/dl! The testosterone levels at the lab didn't go over 1500 ng/dl, so I'm not sure exactly how high my levels actually were. But as we lowered the dose, of course my testosterone levels dropped as well. We had my levels in the mid-high normal range, but I began to get a very unpleasant feeling from them so I had to stop using them. But you might react well to Clomid. If you're really worried about fertility, it's worth giving a try.
HCG also can be used to raise testosterone levels and increase fertilty without the negative effects of TRT. I was also once on a HCG only treatment @225iu M-W-F. With that dose, it brought my total testosterone levels near the high end of normal. So just keep in mind that there are other possible treatments for increasing testosterone and fertility without suffering the negative effects of TRT.
It's up to you of course, but they're worth talking over with your doctor and maybe giving a try. And don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with TRT. I'm on TRT myself! I'm just saying there are other ways if your fertility is that important to you. The best of luck to you!! +1
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4854084/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6087849/
Rustyhookerthere's nothing wrong with TRT. I'm on TRT myself
So tge op is 28 and ran a crap pct. He could reboot pct and NOT need trt. But hey...as long as youre on trt too its a good cosign right?
Alphamale500My whole reasoning behind writing that long comment was in fact to get the point across that there are other very effective options besides TRT, that can "reboot" your HPG axis, raise test levels, restore fertility and can even be used for HRT in place of TRT. Maybe you also missed these two statements that I wrote:
"So just keep in mind that there are other possible treatments for increasing testosterone and fertility without suffering the negative effects of TRT." or:
"HCG also can be used to raise testosterone levels and increase fertilty without the negative effects of TRT."
Crap PCT? Before he even started his cycle, his test levels were 450ng/dl!! Here's a couple statements from the OP himself:
"My total test came out to be 212 (450 prior to cycle so knew this was a risk lol). Free testosterone was also low according to her. Now my Doc wants to put me on TRT and i am cool with that."
So I wasn't cosigning anything and in fact, I was doing the exact opposite. I was explaining and providing the OP with some possible alternative, yet very effective methods of increasing test and fertility instead of TRT! And if his own doctor wants to put him on TRT, I'm sure he knows the OP's situation better than either of us! You're really reaching with this comment bro! Smh bro, really!
RustyhookerNot reading a thesis project. Dude should be thinking reboot and checking 30 days post for drs advice. Hes clearly here FOR a cosign
congrats
Alphamale500"Dude should be thinking reboot"
And that's precisely why I was providing him with alternative methods of raising his natural testosterone production, and increasing his fertility without the use of TRT! I even provided him with links to studies and research about using alternative methods for HRT, other than testosterone. And I never once said that I think TRT is right for him or his situation, did I? What I said was very far from cosigning!
"Not reading a thesis project"
Maybe that was your problem in the first place, which caused you to make fales statements? How can you write a reply(a factual one) to someone's comment without even reading the entire thing? I can understand if you don't wanna read the comment in It's entirety. But then don't go and make false allegations based on the one and only line of the statement that you actually read!
What's done is done bro! And don't get me wrong, I totally respect you as a fellow member of Eroids.
RustyhookerOk kid
Apparently youre so new here that you do not even know WHAT a reboot pct is but you got paragraphs and double talk. Pull your head out and learn something
Reboot pct can be found on basskiller. Im not going to post it since 1-you know it all and 2-tge op just wanted a trt cosign.
Congrats, you acclomplished so much here!
Alphamale500Look sport, you know, once in a while in life you have to know when to be humble, and just admit you're wrong, or when to drop your argument and let bygones be bygones. Apparently, you don't! The bottom line is I never said that he should try TRT, nor did I say that TRT would be appropriate in his situation. So unless you can show where I did in fact make those exact statements, your argument has no validity. PERIOD!
I'm going to be humble here, and say that I don't agree that I did what you say I did, but anyhow I'm sorry for getting you angry, and I hope we can just put this issue to bed and move on as friends. Have a great day!
I'm so glad this account got banned.
goldeneraposer69Thank you so much brother
It took 5 months for my system to kick back on! Most people are not patient enough. They jump back on a cycle or do TRT! I'm 46 & have been juicing on & off since I was 19. Never did TRT & only sometimes I did PCT after my cycles. Your body is smart & rebounds in time. Some people rebound in 2 months & some people rebound in 12 months. Also, I've had best results running HMG 150 iu a week & clomid for 4 weeks on PCT. Makes you shoot big loads like a porn star!
The human body always wants to maintain equilibrium in the body. It's possible to not recover after a steroid cycle, but those chances are rare if you're doing it correctly. The body can recover even if you've fucked up the homeostasis in your body. Below is cited information, "If the patient and his partner are willing to wait and his hypogonadal symptoms are manageable without TRT or AAS, the patient could simply discontinue the use of TRT or AAS to allow spontaneous recovery. Data from the male contraception literature indicate a reasonable probability of recovery in 67%, 90%, 96%, and 100% of men at 6, 12, 16, and 24 months, respectively, with a median time to recovery of 20 × 106 ml-1 sperm in 3–6 months."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4854084/
goldeneraposer69Makes sense my friends thanks a lot
DobermannBig loaads lol!
The porn guy been holding it for 2 weeks or he himself is on hmg...hahah
AnonYou can still run another PCT and recover.. provided there's no other underlying condition. Trt is a last resort, any doctor worth a damn will try to restart first.
God I feel like I'm repeating myself..
Restarts are largely successful in your case. PCT'd too early with a bad protocol.
Just run another one..
Depending on each persons body it can take up to 12 months for natural Test to be normalised after a cycle. Your Doc said to put you on TRT at 28 years old, three months after running one cycle? I'm calling bullshit.
goldeneraposer69beause I have no libido, low energy etc.
There are natural ways to increase your Test levels, as others have stated. Also, again, you should give your body more time to recuperate. You said your T was low before running the cycle, so it's possible you naturally produce low levels of T and it might take longer to get it back to baseline. Going on TRT at your age, there is no going back. You will eventually be reliant on it for life. I would strongly suggest trying natural approaches to restoring your T levels before jumping on the TRT train. In regards to increasing your sperm, Clomid has a lot of research behind it for increasing sperm count. As you said, there are a lot of knowledgeable guys on here, but seeking our advice, and Youtube Doc's advice isn't the best way to go. You will get differing opinions and varying levels of advice. My advice? Find a good Endocrinologist and ask your questions in a clinical setting. That way you have someone who knows your history and can monitor your progress with the appropriate tests.
Do heavy deadlifts/squats, eats lots of pussy(the pheromones increase T), lay out in the sun, take lots of naps, & be patient! You'll be ok!!
jayiska lot of people that have never taken steroids or any PED feel like that. Guessing that is why other members drs looked into diet, sleep apnea, stress, etc..,,before just putting them on trt.
As evidenced by WHAT? BW? C'mon man...lol!!!
goldeneraposer69hahaha LOL, because he is "modest" his advice seemed reasonably to me
No that's not what I'm talking about!! You said you were fine. You weren't fine!! Your PCT was deficient and you didn't pull post cycle BW. If you did, you would have posted it.
What happened to your PCT? You might be able to do a PCT and get back to normal. You sound a lil confused no offense!
goldeneraposer69I did a PCT and I think my PCT was decent tho bro, but maybe i should have done a really aggressive one...
What made you think it was decent? Please explain. It's your forum, let's learn, bro?
You should have pulled BW and you wouldn't be in the dark right now...
Agree confused...
Talk to ur doc and be honest. And/or run one of rusty’s more aggressive PCTs. Don’t take advice from a 130lb salesman. That’s all that dude is. A shitty, slimy salesman. The dude is as ethically gross as his body looks.
goldeneraposer69Lol you are right
RustyhookerNeed the reboot pct that is somewhere in my forums. You didnt do pct properly. Did you at least use pharma? Get hcg...clomid...nolva....
Whats your estro levels? E2 will judge if aro bump needed just with hcg blast or follow into pct.
Sounds like OP set himself up to become TRT candidate...lol
definitely agree with a reboot
RustyhookerListening to dyllan garbage has that effect on folks. Lol
Agreed
You should talk to your doctor about this. This is a bet knowledge community, but we are not licensed medical doctors. There is absolutely no reason to risk never being able to have kids (if that is what you want) without a long, open and honest conversation with your doctor.
Does she know that you recently ran a cycle? If not you need to tell her so she can possibly refer you to an endo for a more clinically supetvised PCT.
There is also the option to have some of your semen frozen now while you do have some swimmers in case it permanently goes to shit during TRT.
Remember, you can always go on TRT and it will work just as well. You can't come off of TRT and expect your body to work just as well as it did before you went on.
goldeneraposer69Yes my doc knows I am using steroids, I am going to take your advice and go for a sperm analysis and freeze it if i can.
Definitely couldn't hurt
Good luck with everything
Can you also share what this Dylan gemelli PCT is? I know the guy you’re talking about. He’s a bit of a clown since he takes drugs just to look like an emaciated teenager but I want to know what you used to restart the first time, might see the problem right there.
AnonI never understood that guy. Why exactly do so many people idolize him? He has decent knowledge of basic cycles, but he's super conservative. He's balls deep into sarms and peptides too..I'm not sold on those. Also, he's TINY. I don't put much faith in a guy weighing 140# soaking wet to give advice. He says he doesn't want to be big. Then why the fuck use steroids! He's got a natty looking build, but all the sides of light steroid use..wwwtttfff
goldeneraposer69He is just about longevity for the avarage joe i guess, but yes he looks like shit. It is just that a couple friends from the gym told me to check him out and go with that
goldeneraposer69Lol i agree with you haha but here is the PCT plan:
Clomid 50/50/50/25/25/25
Nolvadex 40/40/40/20/20/20
Started 1 week after last shot
I would do some research on here under PCT and do another one before trt. Make sure everything is pharma not UGL and I would definitely include HCG. Should be able to turn it around. Nolva looks ok, I’d double the clomid. 100, 100, 50, 50. Also add some aromasin 12.5, 12.5, 6.25, 6.25. And nolva 40, 40, 20, 20. But like I said do some research. And get some hcg.
AnonYou only waited one week to start PCT after using test E. You're still loaded with test.
It’s no wonder it didn’t work. First week-week and a half was useless and started at half the clomid dose.
So the Dylan gemelli PCT is use lower doses for longer and start sooner. That dude is an idiot. Forget about him weighting a buck30...
I’m surprised the Dylan gemelli PcT didn’t involve one of the products he was hawking along with whatever sarm company’s ostarine he’s currently in bed with.
Did you use sarms in ur PCT like Dylan advocates? Or did he finally get off of that bullshit? I haven’t seen anything from him in a couple years maybe he wizened up a little
Oh it does dude, “hcgenerate” which is just a bunch of ground up herbs. Probably better off sprinkling it on your chicken before you grill, than popping caps of the stuff.
Ugh. Of course it does. I remember looking at that stuff when I first started researching years back. Even then I didn’t know shit but just got the feeling not to trust a word from him. Ended up looking into it all and That shit has one ingredient that isn’t completely useless for PCT and might actually help a little bit (but is pointless if you’re using clomid and/or HCG, therefore pointless in PCT). Fadogia. And you can get it for like $16. Or you can spend over $100 to get it from a twiggy salesman... unreal, this guy.
I wonder how many victims of his horse shit there are like the OP who listened to him and ended up shit’s creek thinking they had to go on TRT.
Dobermann1st cycle and alrdy on trt
Sorry but u need to get some clomid kid
U need no trt we dont cosign reckless here
0 advice for u
450 before cycle is perfectly normal ok?
It will come back up dont get on trt very stupud if u do
X2
goldeneraposer69I'm not sure if you read my post... but it is 250 now. Prior to my cycle I always have had below poor/mediocre libido, tiredness, not always as confident. When I introduced testosterone (250mg/week for first 6 weeks and 400 last 6 weeks) I started feeling like myself in week 3-4... and how I am supposed to feel. So what do you suggest bro? Why will it be stupid if i go on trt lol, even if i decide to do couple more blasts it will be over with my levels anyway and they will for sure be shit... Let me know what you think
YAWN....that's what I think...
DobermannU didnt wait long enough to start pct,ur only 28 and u dont need trt.get clomid and wait 6 months to come back up or get to blasting and say goodbye to natural levels for the rest of ur life.seriously u think ppl just do one cycle and start trt and thats the way life unfolds?get a brain