DarksideSix's picture
DarksideSix
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+ 6 More and more failed PCTs

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I feel compelled to address it openly because I see more and more of what I characterized as “failed PCTs.” Heck, there must be one thread every other day on someone’s unsuccessful attempt to recover. So, I perceive that there is a need for this discussion and I’ll give my viewpoint accordingly.

First, it seems that the use of HCG on cycle has created, for many, a false sense of security regarding the continuous function of their testes while on cycle. Yes, 250 iu or 500 iu of HCG a week while on cycle may keep your testes functional but most never really know, they just ASSUME. That is the first mistake I regularly see. This assumption often leads to the next mistake which is…

SERM only PCT and no, it is not enough! I know many will argue this point and say “If it is only a light cycle SERM only PCT is OK.” To that, I say, look at all the 500mg test for 12 week cycles that have tried the SERM only approach and failed. It is not enough.
Finally, there is a general lack of accounting for the AMOUNT and HALF LIVE of the AAS used on cycle. Specificly, you don’t want to start your PCT while you still have supra-physiological levels of AAS in your system. What is a non-supra-physiological level? To keep it simple, it is the point where there is less than 200 mg of an active AAS in your system. That is not a perfect estimate but it will work for most people. By taking the time to do this math, you will greatly improve your chance at recover. So, account for the dosage and drug(s) used in planning your PCT

For long esters (cyp/ent/deconate) estimate 7 days half life

If you ran 1000 mg of test cyp/ent a week then plan to start the HCG blast between 17-21 days after your last shot.

How did I get that? Simple…using the 7 day half life estimate.

@ 1000mg a week of test cyp/ent 7 days after your last shot there is 500 mg active in the blood. 14 days after the last shot, there is 250 mg active in the blood, at 21 days after the last shot, there is 125 mg active in the blood.

It doesn’t matter what the drug is it only matters what ester is attached to it. So, make sure you do the homework and look up the half life for your drugs and figure out how long it will take you to approximate “normal blood levels.”

So what is the answer? A comprehensive PCT plan that address all parts of the recovery process. Yes, that means an HCG blast, even if you use HCG on cycle! It includes 2 SERMS because they work syngerisitcly together to enhance test levels, and an AI to mitigate aromatization that will cause suppression of the HPTA through the feedback loop.

Many will say “you don’t need HCG and two SERMs, and an AI for PCT. That is just overkill.”

To that I’d say, maybe, but would you rather go overboard and make sure your get HPTA recover or not go far enough and remain shutdown? That is what we are really talking about here, right, recover? So why try to skimp or take the lightest PCT possible when there is no real harm in going the whole 9 nine yards and doing everything possible to ensure recover?

Light cycles and first and second timer's

A light cycle to me is a cycle with testosterone only, Anavar or Primo. Since I would never recommend any cycle without testosterone I will only provide timing for the different ester's of testosterone.

This is a PCT for guys that do not wish to play with HCG on their first cycle. Many many guys use only a SERM to recover form testosterone only cycles and recover rather quickly.

Testosterone propionate

5-7 days after last injection start SERM treatment.

Testosterone enanthate and cypionate.

14-21 days after your last injection start your SERM treatment.

Sustanon

21-30 days after your last injection start your SERM treatment.

Choices

1 clomid 50mg every day for 4-6 weeks.

2 Torimefine 30-60mg every day for 4-6 weeks.

3 Nolva 40mg for 14 days and then 20mg for 14-28 more days.

4 clomid and Nolva combo.

clomid 50/50/50/50
Nolva 20/20/10/10/10/10

It is my opinion that everyone should run 25mg of Aromasin every day during there SERM treatment. Right from the beginning to the end. You do not have to do this.

As I said before every cycle will have one of the SERM treatments above. You will start your SERM treatment depending on the ester length of your testosterone. HCG will not have an impact on changing your SERM treatment. We will simply add HCG to our current protocols.

HCG for light cycles. Choose one of the following. #2 is best buts it not always practical for new guys.

1 Use 500iu's of HCG every day for the 10 days leading up to 4 days before your SERM treatment.

2 Use 500iu's a week of HCG for your entire cycle. Then use 500iu's every day for the 10 days leading up to 4 days before SERM treatment.

HCG for heavy cycles.

I consider any cycle with a progesterone, 3 or more compounds or any cycle that includes any compounds that are not in the light cycle category, a heavy cycle.

Use 1,000 iu's a week during the cycle. Do this for 5 consecutive weeks, take a week off and start again. If you get 5,000 iu bottles of HCG you will simply run 1,000iu's a week until the bottle is gone, then take a week off and start a new bottle. Do this the entire cycle.

Blast Phase Part 2 of HCG for heavy cycles. This phase should be ran in addition to the weekly dose during the heavy cycle.

Blast your HCG during the time period you are waiting for the suppressive compounds to leave your system. This is the time period starting the day after your last injection up until 4 days before SERM treatment. The blast Phase should consist of one of the following:

1 500iu's every day.

2 750iu's every day.

3 1,000iu's every other day.

4 1,500iu's every other day.

Since HCG directly stimulate's aromatization in the leydig cells some people can develop Gyno when taking high doses of HCG. You need to get a sense of how sensitive you are to HCG when determining how you want to run your blast phase. If you are sensitive start with every day dosing.

There are 3 reasons to run a blast phase of HCG

1 To test the testicles to see if they are still able to produce testosterone at their maximum capacity. If they can not produce testosterone at their maximum capacity you have developed hypogonadism. It would be wise to get a blood test done during this time to see if the testicles are producing enough testosterone to get your testosterone levels within physiological range. If they are not, there is no point in SERM treatment at this time and more HCG is needed. When I say more, that may mean a higher dose for longer duration, or just a longer duration.

2 By blasting during this time we are ensuring that our testosterone is within physiological range, thus attempting to prevent going catabolic.

3 To stimulate the pituitary. This will provide the material the testes need to produce testosterone.

I hope I covered everything. This was meant to simplify the PCT process, in hopes that guys will understand its really not that complicated.

DomingoRosario's picture

i'm a stick with my clomid and nolvadex

RickRock1086's picture

Anything to get rid of acne in back and chest after cycle?

7gothic's picture

Damn.....
Thank God I'm almost 50 and cruise...then blast with insane dosages that keep me massive, hard, witty, good-looking and intelligent.
Fuck religion....I worship steroids.

HTS_beast's picture

great information.....thanks

iron-slv72's picture

Hey bro I have question instead of running HCG before PCT can you sustitute 100mcgs of tryptorelin before PCT?

iron-slv72's picture

Interesting thats good to know. Thanks for informing me.

Ragin' roidin' Cajun's picture

nice ost

Sephyr's picture

Just posting here so I can keep up with this.

AlphaTiger2011's picture

Just making a.post so i can keep up with all the useful info.

renorob's picture

question for you guy's . Can you just run clomid alone or do you have to run nolva at the same time clomid 100/100/50/50 nolva 40/40/20/20 so you would take 100 of clomid and 40 of nolva a day . Plus waiting to weeks after your last injection .

subs33's picture

Yes, everbody recovers differently...I used clomid only after my first test cycle along with supplements and kept 10 pounds well after PCT. Somebody else could run clomid only after thier first test cycle and never recover.

Also, Im sure thier is just as much bunk PCT gear around as thier are bunk and underdosed garbage AAS. Its a scary game to play for somebody who isnt on TRT. I love my nuts and my boners I get and not have to rely on a script while off gear.

Trenabolic's picture

Lol i just seen this post on another forum, hope its the same guy.

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Trenabolic's picture

You forum whore. Don't trip I'm the same

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Trenabolic's picture

Smart guy, keep it up we never stop learning.

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Jacob Rader's picture

i had a question... i just want to blast and cruise for a while, but how about when i want to cycle off.. how would i implement the hcg for my pct? would you recommend i take hcg the entire time? or can i get away with a huge blast phase?

Jacob Rader's picture

thanks man... i am a younger guy but also suffer from low T and my doc offered to put me on trt but my rents didnt want to pay for it since im still on their health insurance, lol. so thats one reason why i decided i might blast and cruise or just run a cycle for like 20 weeks, then come off for a little. wasnt sure if i should run hcg the entire time

Jacob Rader's picture

222... pretty low for a guy my age

Jacob Rader's picture

or should i do this.. since im just going to do test for now, maybe 20 weeks. should i then just do a pct.. then wait awhile and when i do my next cycle, test/ tren/ winny should i then implement the hcg the entire time

Jacob Rader's picture

awesome... thanks!

Trenabolic's picture

Great post but i would like to add that pct is simply a form of "bro science". There really is no one clear cut formula which would work for everyone, this is why you see so many diffrent ways to run pct. Everybody will recover diffrently from cycles, this is why it is best to find out what formula of pct works best for your own recovery. Let me give my personal experiance as an example. I have been in this game for quite some time now and ran numerous cycles both with and without hcg. I have come to find out i seem recover the same with or without hcg, only diffrence being obviously my boys where bigger with hcg. So for the last few cycles i have gone without hcg and have had no problems recovering. I have also tried diffrent pct at diffrent doses nolva only, nolva and clomid etc. In the end what seemed to work best for me was nolva and clomid at a similar dosage as posted above. I guess what im trying to say is in the end you have to find out what works best for you, don't go by what the other guy says, after all this is how pct got its start, bro's trying out diffrent drugs and sticking to what works.

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Trenabolic's picture

I am also intrigued bro, at that dose one would think there would be a complete block of estrogen and as we all know some estrogen is needed for growth.

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Trenabolic's picture

Yeah imo the 12.5 eod you proposed would more then enough.

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Trenabolic's picture

Have you ran it at 25 bro and how did you recover?

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Trenabolic's picture

Nice, might just give it a test run.

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vocor's picture

good post for sure. Thank you!

House's picture

Thank u for that post.

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