+ 1 know your esters
As I browse around the forums I still see quite a few questions being asked about the ester chain attached to certain hormones such as, what does decanoate mean?, what is the difference between cypionate and enanthate? what is the half life for phenylpropionate? My lovely wife has finished her pharmacology part of her medical study and I thought I would pass this information along for those in need. please understand that it is stated in the medical journal that these are close half life figures and a persons infinity to metabolize the drug could speed or slow this process.
Active half life (esters)
formate- 1.5 days
acetate- 3 days
propionate- 4.5 days
phenylpropionate- 4.5 days
butyrate- 6 days
valerate- 7.5 days
hexanoate- 9 days
caporoate- 9 days
isocaporate- 9 days
heptanoate- 10.5 days
enanthate- 10.5 days
octanoate- 12 days
cypionate- 12 days
nonanoate- 13.5 days
decanoate- 15 days
undecanoate- 16.5 days
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What about Laurate? All that I could find is that is one of the longest, somewhere around 3 weeks. Im curious because I have this:
http://www.eroids.com/pics/hulks-classic-blend-from-promo
if my old ass was a little more tech savvy i should have posted in bold red letters next to half life esters, ESTIMATES! cuz that's what we're dealing with, not absolutes guys and gals..
We are not ragging on you bro, we see these numbers quite a bit and usually one test's numbers are different from another test numbers. Scientific data therefore is inconclusive as the metabolic rate is so different from one person to another.
no worries brother, inconclusive and different from person to person can't agree more. btw I have been lurking here for a long while and was jazzed to get yours and Bigs input on my first post definitely picked up a few things from both of ya. if a few young guns just learned what a ester is by reading this post I'll be happy. dig this mon last week one of the older guys at my gym was selling a bottle of test to this younger guy maybe all of a buck 60 soaking wet in the locker room says he was hoping to get test cyp, he says to the guy " man it sure is stronger than that weak ass prop" referring to the esters not the hormone. next thing he said was after the cyp cycle he wants to try something little stronger like test e. Iwas waiting to see if big boy broke off with a little imknowledge he didn't..
Weak ass prop ROFL. I don't know how you managed to keep your composure overhearing something like that; I'm sure you had to bite your tongue and draw blood. If we compared half life's Test C is stronger then Test E by about 1/10th of a milligram and a half of a day lol.
you know amigo it was hard not to just push myself into that conversation, I was few min past my lunch break getting back to work or I probably would have. that younger guy really is a good kid from what I can see and when we cross paths I'm going to give him 5 min and make him aware of a few basic things and direct him here hate to see him fuck himself up. from what little I have overheard I'm not sure he is familiar with pct or even knows what an ai is. cool beans, didn't know that cyp was little more stout than enth.
It is so small a difference its almost comical; hence why it's prescribed in the states as a TRT medicine and not enanthate. E and C are so similar noone can really say one is better then the other. I cruise on C and blast on E.
right on, to my knowledge there is not a American pharmaceutical company that makes test e is that right bro?
Pretty much only American UGL's make test E; Test C is mostly made by companies such as Pfizer and another; Next time I buy a bottle of Pharma I'll post the maker, might be a while as I hate paying more then I should for the same shit.
yup Watson is the stuff I've seen sold as well at your big chain pharmacys Big B, never seen a bottle of Pfizer Gry, all these years I once would like to run a cycle of American pharma grade gear, Watson test, vet eq, dbol things of such, but yeah you're right bro paying out the ass and then hoping it's not a knock off doesn't sound to appealing to me. one day just maybe lol..
BigBmajWatson makes my cypionate.
That's the name I was looking for. My friend gets his test that says subsidiary of Pfizer but I can't remember the fkn brand name of the Lab.
that's it, you got it Big B, everyone's metabolic rate is different and you and I share some same history I was once addicted to oc"s as well, remember first time the dr. told me that they were 12hr pills and it wasn't long before my body burned them in 4 to 6hrs. half life's and ester chains are sound estimates not exacts..
BigBmajThere is a tiny bit of truth to enanthate being slightly stronger, in that 100 mg of test e has a tiny bit more testosterone than 100 mg of test c. But by that rationale the test p would be stronger. I feel sorry for that poor kid.
BigBmajI never seem to read about various people metabolizing test faster than others. You hear about this all the time with intoxicants but not test why? Some people say it's receptor saturation but many people don't believe that. Is it possible that I'm just metabolizing steroids like a champ and that's why my gains have slowed? Not sure why this is just dawning on me now.
An ester is a chain composed primarily of carbon and hydrogen atoms attached to a hormone to slow down its ability to be absorbed. the longer the chain, the longer it takes to dissolve.
IMO, I don't think an IM injection is being affected by metabolism as much as a drug that is being digested. I could be wrong.
BigBmajYeah I know about what an ester is, but I still have no clue about the rate of the hormone itself being metabolized.
An ester is like this
XXX-000000000. 1 gram
X-00000000000 1 gram
The x is testosterone so one gram of a short ester is more actual drug than a gram of a long ester. But I don't yet understand the variables affecting the speed at which test is metabolized. I have a very fast metabolism does that mean I process through more of it faster than other people.
I like your example/visual of the ester: Longer chain, less test per mg, same weight.
(I didn't want to imply you didn't know what an ester was, you just never know who's reading a post)
I was replying to your referance of intoxicants.
Again, I'm not an expert but I'd think of it as having 2 dye packs that dissolve at the same rate. bury one under water in the sand and toss the other into the surf.
Digesting or taking a drug intravenously IMO would be like tossing the dye pack into the surf, the agitation would hasten the breakdown. Where as IM injection is like the dye pack buried in the sand. It still will dissolve but be far less affected by the agitation of the surf.
BigBmajWho's the person around here who who know these things? I have a chemistry degree, and I took some biochem, I should know the answer, or be able to look it up. But I don't believe the things I read these days.
I think this topic is really a great discussion that could really be investigated. When someone posts that propionate has 4 day half life but all of us know experiencially that this is not the case. So why isn't it the case?? Where is the discrepancy??
Agreed, hence the only reason Phenylprop has a higher life then regular Prop is the extra molecule attached.
Hey bro,
For me, if u really want to see what is going on with these esters, buy a steroid cycle design program like http://www.anabolicsteroidcalculator.com/cycle-examples.php (they still support this one but they haven't done any new work to it sinced 2011). With this you can really see your blood levels and how much of the active hormones are in circulation. It let's you break down your oral and injectable stack. This is where all these esters come into play. Interesting if you have the time and may shed some light on your concerns with gains.
GearHead
Bro, that's a great link. +1 bro.
I'll second that and have a look see as well thanks gear!
BigBmajDon't various metabolic factors come in to play? For instance I can burn through 80 mg of OxyContin in no time but some people are busy metabolizing for 24 hours. I cant hormone esters are much different. I never read about this with steroids, is there a tolerance factor that's common with other drugs?
This may be bro science but back in the day a doctor told me that suboxone had a 3 day half life but that didn't explain why I was sick every morning.
lol on that topic it takes me 3 hydrocodones or 25mg's to actually work on any pain I may have. It usually bases itself on your tolerance levels. Like the people who can do a gram of test and only need arimidex once every 3 days compared to the guy who just looks at the bottle and his chest starts to look like lindsey lohans.
very well may be skewed wrong for some, remember guys these are averages done for over 50 people per ester of various drugs backed by blood tests and not bro science. none taken rusty, lab tests with blood work taken looking at the amount of drug left in your body seems to be the most accurate way to see how the drug is metabolized and utilized by the body in my opinion. I don't think a person can gauge as to how much hormone is left in their body by how they feel. some of those esters are not really prevalent to what we use and the ones we are most familiar with are not that off.
Acetate 3 days, skewed and screwed. Propianate, 4.5 days, skewed and screwed and mixed up with Phenylprop; which is 4 days.
RustyhookerMore proof of the medical communities misinformation. No offence but some of those numbers are skewed wrong. Medical info is often times gathered in a lab with tests and numbers but no reality of how the body uses the chems.