posted Mon, 10/19/2015 - 16:36
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+ 2 Bulking or lean bulk
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I'm interested in everyone's thought about bulking! When I think of bulking it's eat everything you can plus taking in 300+ g of protein! I know some guys call a bulk staying under 12% bf which they call a lean bulk. What is your preference or your thoughts?
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If you are a bodybuilder getting fat is dumb period. If you are a strength athlete extra fat tends to help keep strength gains high to a degree for most, but diminishes past a certain point. If you are a bodybuilder it is a lifestyle and bulking to a major degree is unhealthy when the major part of the bulk is fat. Not to mention you have to diet off all of that fat which means dieting longer and possibly losing muscle if you are not starting like 20+ weeks out to diet. However if you have a crazy metabolism and eat everything and gain little to no fat then do what you have to but clean food is the basis for gains a little junk is ok here and there off season but I have never seen anyone get great results strictly off garbage food and protein powder alone. Just my 2 cents on it.
Stay as healthy as possible. Might as well look like a bodybuilder all year round if you can too. Also to clarify, no matter what, to gain muscular bodyweight you will have to be 8 or above body fat but there is no need to go above 15 and most can maximize gains staying roughly around 12. However depending on your genetics and any gear you may take water will add a lot of excess. Reading other peoples comments I realize I should clarify this in my opinion and what I have witnessed first hand.
Also due to your bodies ability to rapidly change its BMR if you do approach the top end of that fat percentage or even 12 doing a mini diet for 1-4 weeks then pumping up your calories again can resort in a large amount of growth and help when muscular gain is slowing even on very high calorie intake. The rebound affect can be very very helpful.
I'm loving everyone's feed back! Thanks guys for the input! When I bulk I bulk! I eat everything all the meat I can plus carbs... When it comes to dropping fat it comes off very easy. That's because I'm young of course! I am trying to bulk up getting ready for my next comp! So I just wanted everyone's input! If I start to get to fat I'll drop my carbs every 2 or 3 weeks or so for about a week and hit cardio up. Then back to bulking!!! If you get what I mean..just because I think my body will respond to that well!
I'm gonna chime in on this one from experience. About to hit 40 so things have changed and the changes are recovery and fatloss. It does take more effort to strip away excess fat mass from bulking BUT an effective offseason plan is the only way I know of how to build muscle. That off season plan is always to shoot for 30 lbs in 16-20 weeks, being mindful that about a 1/3 of that will be legit muscle gain. The other 1/3 is fat and the other 1/3 is water. When you start your cutting season you usually lose 5 lbs in the first week or so, that is WATER! and when you dry out at the end of your cut it's usually 3-5 lbs of water. There is your 1/3 of water.
What is effective for me is to keep my macro's in check to a point. I start my bulk @ 5000 cals and end up around 6-7000 by week 20. The first 5000 is a clean meal plan and I add more dense calorie foods as I go, to hit the higher #'s.
Training is always to progress the heavy lifts as well as the "sweet zone". Ex let's say you squat 405 for 4 and 355 for 8. The goal is to raise your "ceiling" which is your 405 so you can raise your "sweet zone"
So maybe you ended up at the end of your offseason squatting 495 for 4 and 405 for 8. The 405 for 8 with proper form and contraction is where you're going to make the most gains. You got stronger in more than 1 area. Catch my drift?
And yes when I was in my 20's I never did cardio but that is a thing of the past. Cardio must be applied as the metabolism is just not the same. So in the end no I don't eat everything in sight, only after I reach 5000 calories I may.
Looking at it from a competitive perspective, let's take a look at two ways of going about it.
Option 1 - bulk, eat everything of value you can force down your throat THEN carve it up for stage.
Option 2 - bulk "clean" and have less to do in ter,s of stage prep cutting.
Which do you think makes more progress in that year? Reality check, if you half heartedly bulk, (call it clean bulking if you will), you limit your mass built. You can kid yourself into thinking a bit less food won't make that much difference if you inject a boat load of steroids. You're wrong, and I say that with 100% certainty as I sit here eating a piece of salmon the size of Jaws as I'm typing ;)
I think a guy / girl with a very developed physique built over decades can operate this "lean bulk" technique with some success. After all, they've built their slab of meat, it's about refinement and conditioning. But bulking, REAL bulking is built on hard graft and food, food and more food. I'm not the guy to talk to about conditioning, I'm what you call a "one trick pony" in bodybuilding. There's one thing I excel at in this game, it's building mass and showing others how to do it too.
Yea but those who compete usually end up taking a butt load of steroids... I agree with you on everything and salmon is my shit!!!
that my friend is not a factual statement those who build the foundation over time know that the boat load doesn't add any extra the 1% who are freakish find me one who is honest about what they run or don't. You find though that they built a foundation not on a butt load of steroids but on a butt load of food and training intesnisty, will, and determination to connect with their bodies on a level that many don't have the mental fortitude to find
Maybe I explained that wrong... Everything you just said was spot on. A buttload of steriod just depends on what you call that. Let's be honest though 500mg of test a week isn't going to get you a pro card or anything close unless you are that 1% and you just respond to it freakishly even then I would question that!
i know and have known those who have won their pro cards with minimal dosages ... they have that something that a lot of people don't .. however that isnt the issue .. if you dont have IT then a spaceship full of juice isn't going to get you that card and if you do manage to get it you aren't going to do well because lets face it ... 1% isn't very many people
there are so many factors other than the juice, which is just a tool ... and a fairly insignificant one at that given you use the other tools properly.
Sweeet and true grrl people seem to forget the so called juice was developed to and for recovery of patient's well most of them. They recover faster means train more longer harder etc. Food and hard ass trading and rest and of course genetics is what a going to do it. Let people take juice and sit on couch and lets see what happens lol. Sorry I know you have forgotten more about this than I ever will know. ;-)
I just wanted to chat with you........lol
how did you know I just sit on the couch ;-)
Oh I know what you mean you don't have to explain or go into detail... I think the number one roll is genetics then it breaks up from there.
Perfect................
MightyMatt812Can u please pm me I would like to talk to you
If i gained fat easy, i would go with option 2, and it would take longer. But, with option 1, u get the opportunity to "not worry" so much about staying lean, while putting on mass from eating food like raw eggs, salmon, and milk...
I think we are gonna need a bigger boat
I get it and agree. This is what I am doing right now and have made some good progress putting on some decent muscle mass after a long an sustained cut - but some fat too. I guess my question is how much becomes too much (fat that is)? Put another way at what point do you call it and then start to cut? There are options around cyclical bulking so what are your and others thoughts on that? Can this approach be successfully applied when running a long bulk on an aas cycle? Very interested in views on this.
That's where you need to know your body and your capabilities. I can't shift fat like I did ten years ago, and I'm very conscious of that. The mirror guides me, not the scales. I'm not afraid of a bit of fat, part of the process, but how much is too much? How much can YOU shift? How disciplined can YOU be?
You sound like my coach ha!
Cheers fella. I get it. I bulk generally as clean as I can. But I do struggle getting my calories above 4000 that way and then I find if I start adding in "less clean" foods that's when I see in the mirror some unwanted fat. I've applied a cyclical approach by running mini cuts for 1 to 2 weeks but that's been off cycle. Now I'm on I am wondering what do I do if I get to say 10 weeks of a planned 16 week bulk on cycle and feel like too much fat is coming on. Going to a full cut at that point seems counter intuitive but I guess cycling calories and carbs down for a 1/2 weeks may not be a bad idea. Would be interested in your and anyone else's thoughts on the best approach in these circumstance. You may say stay at 4000 calories the and bulk slower but that again seems counter intuitive. Cheers for the info and the debate. Really interesting and always learning.
Thats a good analogy and a worthwhile debate because its something we dont touch upon much here.. example : i prefer to comp prep for a steady 10 weeks i know 100% i can drop a max of 2stones (28/30lbs in that time some need more time some need slightly less.. thats not including the last couple of days water shed... so working on that assumption i would not like to overload my BF with a higher level that i know i could not shift.
But!... saying that, most folks here have never comp prepped so have no clue how fast they can diet down OR what would be the best type of diet for them... dropping sub 6% is not normal for the average gym rat so i will be watching this thread closely for folks input.
I wanted to ask earlier about dieting down, especially from the 235 to 215....or from 270 to 240. Cutting carbs to 50g/d sucks...increasing MUFAs/PUFAs to delay CHO metabolism helps. But, whats the way that works for you?
Massive carb drop.... and a massive increase in workload works for me, i live on turkey fillet and rice, nothing seriously scientific or fancy... just a long boring hard core diet ... but im ok with it because i know what the results are each and every time, been doing the same diet for decades because it works... put Suzy b and all my boys on it and they all get results....... brutal but effective, face looks like shit, feel like dying, but the body looks like all the skin has been torn off....... and thats what brings trophies home for us
It took me about 6 weeks to drop from 12 to between 4 and 5%...I'm also a lot younger though... It be a little harder for the older guys!
LMAO!.......... ask the guys how old i am bro........ you may be surprised what "older guys" can still achieve
All in all, thats a great plan, with a low cost budget. And, its nothing fancy. What would be an idea for daily CHO intake and how many grams? This would also be the time when CHOs are cut after 1400hrs. Correct?
That diet is lean and mean. Do you get a piece of bread with it...lol...i would be a carb cheatin' mofo if i had to live at ur house...lmao..i would have some peanut butter and crackers stashed under the bed...bro...
Couldnt agree more. Everyone is diff. Im one of those guys who can cut very easy and get sub8% pretty quick. Prob with that is the mental part of watching the veins and abs disappear...lol
This needs to be one of your famous all time quotes.....should be on the cover of your book....
My book? I wouldn't buy it ;)
I would.
Lean buk is a pipedream. I tried it because I just didn't wanna get soft but its the nature of the beast. Bulk=fat...period. Funny part is that even bulking most of us look leaner then most..lol. I remember watching a BB documentary with my girl and she says "who the hell is that???" I said that's Branch Warren hun. Her response was "why is he so fat...lol?"....my response was "hes bulking....you don't think they always look like they do in the magazines do you?". So many people don't realize that these guys don't walk around stage ready all the time.....they get fat too..lol.
+1 bro!!!
dirty bulker here.
eat what ever when ever.
the problem you get at is abs, if you go too far, it can get tricky, maintaining muscle whilst burning fat, never drop food, up your intensity.and delibratley engage core in daily movements/ excersize, especially if you hate that dirty cardio doggery shit lol.
I eat whatever all day every day!!! To me bulking is eating food, food, food! Getting a little pudge is okay with me. I still stay pretty tight. I try to eat as much protein as well which is very important I think!
Lean bulking is bullshit ...you gotta eat to grow you can spin your wheels with the fantasy of gaining slabs of beef with keeping ripped but in reality you have to consume copius amounts of food to grow and sustain that mass and that comess with adding a few pounds of fat pure and simple ..you either cut or bulk anything inbetween is a total waste of time and money
+3............ Totally agree bro.
Any other way is for clowns, and these folks that you see month in month out/year in year out weighing the same or maybe a couple of pounds heavier... this lean theory is alright for the usual gym rat but for a true Bodybuilder it just dont cut the fkn mustard.
Example ; check out pics of my bros Lee priest and Dennis Wolf..... off season they are fkn montrous, because they know full well if they want to keep progressing they MUST get out of shape before they can get in shape to look better than the last time.
On here there is so much misconstrued info/beliefs about what bulking really means because this is not a site made up exclusively of Bodybuilders........... a solid two/three year bulking period is common place before anyone serious should even contemplate cutting..... but when i talk like that on here its like pissing into the wind.
Thanks viking those are great examples lee priest bulks old school more focus on food less focus on drugs well so he says ..he gets huge off season yet in contest shape he never had a bloated gut tight waist dense thick muscles hes always been a favorite if mine
I love Lee Priest, watch all his videos and follow some of his diet plans, Me and priest share a love for fried chicken and he goes as far to say he sometimes has cheat meals a day of a show and 1 or 2 days before. Funny thing is his cheat meal is 8 pieces of fried chicken but no fries or potatos, he says that is going too far lol. Bulking is bulking, whoever finds the answer to lean bulking will be a fkn millionaire.
I bet that chicken would be really awesome fried in olive oil...then peel the skin off before eating it....no fries or potatoes...lol
You just fucked it up, adding olive oil you made it healthy lol, now straight canola oil we are in business.
Lol...damnit...
brother viking, nothing you type is pissing in the wind, infact i screen shotted this bro, every word you type is being read and learned from, your a legend.
Brother.... im just about to hit the picture section with a little something i found whilst cleaning out some drawers....... its an old black and white picture of me when i was 23yrs old ... you can even see the creases in the page lol.
That my bro is 32yrs ago....... comp prepped on nothing but Sustanon because its ALL we had hahaha..... then we get the kiddos on here freaking out that they cannot get results without Tren and diuretics?
Headin dat way...
Thanks for showing up bro.. its a nice tidy thread with some good guys in there
Ur welcome...and thx for havin me...always glad to be a part of a good team....:-)
Just done it ................ https://www.eroids.com/pics/a-little-something-from-32yrs-ago
X2...flash...some people u come across in life know a lot and help tremendously...but others who actually live it, practice it, and put it into perspective are few and far between...well said brother...
I got lucky and had a BB conversation with a guy who competes before i started. He said, " if you think that the BB's look like they do on stage, everyday, they dont!" He went on to say,while using both his hands in front of his stomach making a half-circle, "they get fat!!"
He told you the truth bro