Body Recomposition
Hey guys. I want to get some thoughts on body recomposition, or building muscle and loosing fat at the same time. Do you think it's based on science or just based on bro science? Based on my research and experience, there are basically 2 schools of thought or methods when it comes to accomplishing body recomp.
One method out there, would be following a consistent training and diet protocol that actually causes your body to build muscle and burn fat simultaneously. This is the particular method which I think seems hard to back up scientifically. Even with steroids, I would think your body needs a surplus of calories to build muscle or bulk. And, I would think your body has to burn more calories than you take in to lose weight or cut. So, I really don't see how this method could really work.
The other method would be following a split training and diet protocol, such as 4 days bulking and 3 days cutting or other variations. So during the 4 bulk days, you would take in a surplus of calories to aid in building muscle. During the 3 cutting days, you would follow a lower calorie intake and burn more calories than you take in. This is the only recomp protocol that as far as I can tell is actually backed up by science, and therefore the only way I believe you can actually accomplish body recomp.
What are some of your thoughts about recomposition and the 2 protocols I've laid out? I'm curious if the laws of science and bodybuilding actually allow for the human body to build muscle and burn fat simultaneously. I haven't mentioned anything about including steroids into the mix, because I don't think it should really matter if recomp is not physically possible by the human body.
- Bookmark
- 1
- 1
If you gain pure lean muscle mass without gaining fat your body fat% will go down. Its simple math so in essance if someone gains 10lbs in 8 weeks they have " recomped" there body. But as far as gaining lean mass and dropping bodyfat percentiles even on top of what it would be just from gaining lean mass i dont think its quite possible in significant amounts. Now the appearance one has that is say 200lbs 12% bodyfat and gains 20lbs lean mass will look leaner and much bigger and will actually BE leaner only from the addition of the new lean muscle, not because he burned additional fat..
Personally , I find the term "body recomposition" humorous. To me the term "body recomposition" is a new-age term to simple say "get in shape"
In my humble opinion, compounds are never needed to simply "get in shape"
Focus and resolve when it comes to consistency in diet and training is all that is needed for any sucessful body recomposition effort.
Dave_61Yeah, it seems like some bullshit term developed by those trying to promote their new bodybuilding products or whatever.
Of course Tren is the ultimate recomp substance! However, i don't know your experience or stats so I'm not recommending it. Of course there's the side effect issues as well!
Dave_61Hello John. Yeah, I do have to add some info about myself including my experience with different steroids on my profile page.
I really only have a few true cycles under my belt, along with some experimentation when I was younger. I do have some knowledge about steroids, but the majority of it comes from research that I've done.
You said that tren was the ultimate recomp substance. What do you think about tren compared to primo when it comes to recomp? I experienced some serious sides of tren when I used tren acetate and they actually forced me to stop because of them.
Primo is safer, takes longer, but there is no doubt it is great for recomping!
So much quality advice here!!
To put on muscle size you need to be in a calorie surplus. To lose body fat you need to be in a calorie deficit.
Now when someone is out of shape/ 20-30% body fat it is relatively easy to do them at the same time. But that’s different because they have very little muscle mass and high body fat.
So as they are eating healthy they are burning fat and slowly building muscle at the same time. But for people who are already into the sport you cannot do that at the same time.
Dave_61Hey bro, I respect your thoughts and knowledge on this subject. But how would having a lot of body fat help those people to build muscle and burn fat simultaneously?
Like you said, to put on muscle you need a surplus of calories, and to burn fat you need to be in a calorie deficit. I don't see how this fact can be changed just by having a lot of body fat. Couldn't that point be countered by the fact that those who have more muscle burn more calories?
Pretty simple. Your classic overweight/obese sedentary newbie is going to have piss poor insulin sensitivity. I assume you know that one of the things that insulin does is to enhance the nutrient uptake in cells. The cliff notes here is that exercise increases insulin sensitivity in the muscles way before it increases sensitivity in the fat cells. The fat cells are basically insulin resistant right now because they are full and happy and resist the storage effects that the exercised induced insulin spike is creating so the nutrients you are consuming are going directly into the muscles at an accelerated rate instead and building up lean body mass. This effect is fairly short term unfortunately. As this dude starts losing the fat and gets in better shape the fat cells regain their sensitivity and the preferential nutrient partitioning effect disappears.
So, when this fatass starts working out the muscles become a sponge due to a huge bump in insulin sensitivity soaking up all nutrients and grow (even in a cal deficit you are consuming nutrients) while fat is being burned. Once the fat cells regain their sensitivity this preferential muscle building effect stops. They can continue to burn fat but the muscle building comes to a halt.
Top scientific stuff explained in a way everyone can understand. Why you dont have a PRO or GURU tag is beyond me bro. Thanks for the awesome post
100% agree with you
X2 I almost hate the phrase. It basically says I'm out of shape. The workouts and drugs are the easy part for me. Dieting in any capacity up or down is where the discipline comes in. It's the missing link for most guys.
Dave_61Whats up. So you also believe that the term is basically just bullshit?
The most effective part of a bulking or cutting cycle are determined in the kitchen.
Dave_61100% agreed!
What’s up Dave,
Yeah as makwa said splitting days bulking and cutting with that layout would be a waste of time.
BUT primo, on a cut, can actually produce muscle gains. I’ve seen it. Many guys on here can attest to it as well. They’ll drop 15 pounds but their arms go up anywhere from 1/4-1 inch. Tren can as well to a degree but frankly that’s another animal entirely and it can be fucked up so many different ways I wouldn’t recommend it. Primo is the recomp drug of choice. Eat slightly under maintenance, run it at at least 500-600 and watch it shine.
Dave_61What's up man? It's nice to meet you as well. Yeah, everything I've read about primo make it sound really amazing. I remember reading that it's the only steroid that actually works on a low calorie diet. I've used tren acetate in the past but had to stop because of serious sides. But primo is a steroid that I'd really like to give a run.
I wanted to talk a little bit about this. What this appears to be is some sort of bastard child of cyclic bulking. Cyclic bulking is awesome but trying to do it this way is pretty much an effort in futility. The key to cyclic bulking is to pack on the lean mass for as long as possible and then do a mini-cut to reset insulin sensitivity. Flipping back and forth every few days will have you ending up looking just like when you started. Spinning your wheels once again. You are not taking advantage of the enhanced nutrient partitioning during the bulking phase to put on lean mass and then you hop trains to cut when it is totally unnecessary. So you pretty much go nowhere. If you are going to cyclic bulk then do it right.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/the-key-to-quality-mas...
Bastard child is putting it nicely. I agree 100% here. I don’t see this working and in fact at best it will the ultimate wheel spinner. Cyclical bulking with periods of mini cuts can be an effective way of bulking and minimising fat gain. I guess done perfectly with the right supplements, nutrient timing, training program and use of cardio I guess it may be theoretically possible to actually not gain any fat and only lean muscle. I say theoretically as nothing is ever done perfectly and we are all variable animals living in widely varied open systems.
For a a relatively in shape person (I’m talking 20% BF or less) you have to pick one or the other or you will quite literally go knowwhere.
I think it would be pretty hard like you said to gain just muscle and no fat while cyclic bulking. You likely will be in the bulk phase for at least 75% of the time which requires surplus cals. But, if you are putting on 3lbs of muscle for every pound of fat when it is all said and done, you are on the winning side.
I really like this idea makwa. I read It not too long ago on your page and have started a mini cut since I have gotten up to 15.5% body fat. Surprisingly I don’t look too fluffy but I want to get back down to 10% and then bulk back up until I hit around 15 again. I always thought building muscle while loosing fat was achievable with carb cycling though. This what Hugh Hackman claimed to do while training for one of the Wolverine movies where he gained around 15 pounds of muscle while staying very lean. He also claims to have done this naturally with strictly training and diet. What are your thoughts on this? I do think mini cuts and mini bulks are much more efficient though.
Of course he has to say he did it naturally. Could you imagine the headlines if he actually told the truth about what he was using.
Lol...x2
Dave_61Hey Makwa, nice to meet you. I've read your post on primo and I thought it was very informative. Would you say that primo would be one of the few compounds that would help with accomplishing cyclic bulking properly or efficiently?
I would use primo more for a straight up cutter. There are better lean mass builders out there than primo.
Dave_61Thank you for your thoughts and recommendations!
For a newb just stepping into the gym for the first time a recomp is definitely possible and pretty easy to do. Once that person and anybody else gets some gym time under their belt though it just becomes a very inefficient way to try and do things. If you wan't to lose fat then focus on that. If you want to build muscle then focus on that. Don't chase both of those squirrels at the same time though because then you won't be able to catch either one then. Focus on one or the other and get it done.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/spinning-your-wheels
Straight to the point! .. always a + when the squirrels are brought up!
Squirrels are cool and a good source of protein too so it is nice when you catch one.
Good protein but chewy...btw I have copyrighted the 2 squirrels quote so it’s .75 cents every time it’s used..
Seriously tho, many thanx for being active in the forums and sharing some real life knowledge for us to absorb.. you’ve helped me more than you’ll know... truly a cornerstone of this place!