+ 12 Oral toxicity rates
Yesterday I was talking with a highly revered member on a topic discussing oral trenbolone. He commented that nothing would protect your liver from it as it is so extremely hepatoxic. The member then went on to say his personal experience with it and being a possible liver transplant list patient. Thankfully this did not happen and our member is still thriving in the community.
I am looking to hear from members here about the levels of toxicity associated with certain orals and how exactly can one be more toxic than the other. Research will show they are ALL modified testosterone molecules that have been modified at the 17th position making them orally bio-available through methylation. So, for instance anavar is considered "mild" in its hepatoxic effects whereas halotestin @ even 10mg's is severely taxing on our livers. Another example would be oral tren is said to be particularly devastating, causing hepatic impairment like a life long alcoholic. Yet, the dose of oral tren is between 250-1000mcg's. I can't see any of the toxicity being based upon dosing of said compounds as each hormone varies greatly. But in saying that dosing has to play a part as anavar is shown to be almost negligible on hepatic function unless the dose is much higher.
I understand the general rules of thumb and have been in this aas business for years, but some questions I have are never answered or its a vague analogy. So what makes one more toxic than the others?
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I'd like to see a test done to show a direct comparison between drinking say 3 Alcoholic drinks per evening and 40mg Dbol per day and see which affects liver values more.....
I think it would be really neat to extend this study for 3-6 months after cessation and see if there are any differences in liver recovery rates as well.
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Great read!
This has been a most intriguing topic. I appreciate everyone's responses and hope to keep generating new topic discussions. I mean the info I have gotten today has opened my eyes to such new perspectives on aas. We are very fortunate to have such seasoned vets and years of experience. My question has been more than answered.
This is why I joined this site to begin with, to be able to.dig a little deeper into things and gain a better understanding of how certain substances operate. I find it fascinating how complex our bodies are and how these substances can work to change us. When we can learn and understand how they work at the base level that is when we can understand how to make them work to our advantage
Rustyhooker"I understand the general rules of thumb and have been in this aas business for years"
That then answers your question. Whats toxic mildly for you might be a train wreck for me. This is one that cant be bro scienced. Pull bloods.
+1 for a great topic
Am astonished by the discussion and answers below, really is interesting stuff lads
At the end of this article google the case studies. That will explain why there is different hepatoxicities with certain orals. I would have to write 5 paragraphs otherwise. It comes down to your overall health, genetics, and predisposition to damage to organs to be exact. One of tne case studies showed a gentlemen took 30mg of turinabol a day for 5 years and it took that long for him to develop liver damage.
Another took the same for less then a year and destroyed his liver. You need to be healthy and not be predisposed to organ damage before taking ANY medications. Some people here did their First cycle and afterwards never recovered while some idiots are getting lucky and cycling year round. Of those idiots they havent proven they are fucked because they wont get a blood test or even a physical.
http://www.ironmagazine.com/2016/anabolic-steroids-and-liver-toxicity/
RustyhookerBeyond our chat here we can also look at all the medical reports on the old folks hitting 100 plus years. Drinking a fifth a day and handfull of cigars.
And the folks dieing of cancers before 30 years old.
Exactly. Predisposition, genetics and heriditary problems affect everyone. My grandfather, still alive, drinks and smomes like its the end of the world. He is in his 90's now and has been drinking hard liquor and 2 packs a day of cigs for 20 years now. Still healthy as far as lungs and liver but the rest of him is getting tired i.e brain and temper lol.
A few things come to mind now digging into my chemistry background.
Spatial position of the methyl group in relation to the 3-D molecule of the compound. This spatioal position in relation to the entire 3-D aspect of the molecule can protect it from brake down during a pass through the liver. In layman's terms, think of the methyl group sitting way off on the outside of the molecule all on its lonesome compared to a methyl group that is tucked inside and surrounded the rest of the molecule. The one tucked inside is protected more and harder to breakdown and therefore more toxic.
Look at the number of bonds a steroid has. These bonds need to be broken to make the steroid biologically available. Anavar, and I believe Tbol (don't qoute me on that yet),has one bond, the 17-aa, and is less hepatoxic than winstrol which has 2 bonds, and even less so than halo which has 3 bonds. I am also going on assumption that mtren may have multiple bonds also, hence adding to its toxicity.
I am sure there are more reasons contributing to toxicity levels but those were the simpelist ones I could think of off the top of my head.
Bottom line is this is a very advanced compound only really suited for competitive bodybuilder in the final weeks of prep who can actually take advantage of what the compound offers. They would actually be using injectable mtren and not the oral (even competitive BB are smart enough not to use it.) Gym rats aren't going to get anything more out of it than they would from much friendlier orals. I did hear that yellow eyeballs are cool with the YOLO crowd though.
Thank you for that answer.Exactly what OP was looking for,and if not him than me.
Titsonmyman69such a great comprehendible answer. This gives a lot of clarity totothe subject +
That is absolutely fascinating to me and an excellent way of explaining it. I have been searching for a very long time to get answers to the question I've asked and that was an impressive summary of how it basically works. So basically, (not quoting), but the general thought is that the more bonds a compound has the more difficult it is to process. Would that be that it's doing multiple passes then per each bond?
Also, I hear that the injectable versions are "safer" so to speak, like you saying that the pros use injectable mtren vs oral, how is this even a factor in it being safer? The molecule is still the same molecule just suspended in oil. Would the body not have to do just as many breakdowns due to the amount of bonds for whatever molecule is being injected? Sorry for all the additional questions, but it's not like I have anyone else but eroids to talk to about this stuff as most people's eyes glaze over and think their prescribed prednisone is going to get them huge.
Again to anyone reading this I AM NOT CONSIDERING MTREN. It's just a great substance to debate when it comes to toxicity and dosage. Severe hepatic impairment is not my idea of a good time no matter how yellow my eyes get ;)
Titsonmyman69answer to your "safer" question is that injectable go straight to the system whereas orals have to make a pass (or 2 or 3...) through your liver. Check into the link below
http://www.zupplements.com/news/95/How-Do-Steroids-Work%3F-Basic-Steroid...
Very interesting, 95% ineffective by our digestion wow. I imagine that's why primo ace tabs and andriol aren't exactly on the to do list yet when injected and suspended in oil they are very effective compounds.
primo tabs are pretty great the only thing is you have to run a shit ton of it for an effective dose which will cause you to take a second mortage out on your house to afford it.
Well in that case injectable it will be when I decide I have the funds for such luxuries! I asked Irish mack this question too but if all orals are hepatoxic as we have unanimously agreed, why is oxymetholone the only oral in medical literature stating that it has been linked to liver cancer? Is this simply because dbol, mtren, etc have not been studied as extensively due to the prohibition of such substances? I know it isn't going to absolutely happen and is based on genetics etc so is that simply because some people are just that unlucky?
Lots of studies have been done. I mtren's case, the same company that introduced parabolan was also studying mtren for potential market use but all their studies showed it was too damn toxic so they dropped all further research.
You got the jist of it. The more potent an oral is is due to how many trips through the liver it can survive. Tbol and anavar take the fewest hence why they are considered weaker orals. Halo and tren take multiple trips so the damage they cause is more pronounced because of it.
That makes a lot of sense. You know though all of these orals are hepatoxic I wonder though then how oxymetholone is the only one shown to be linked to liver cancer? Anyone idea what makes this an exclusive characteristic of anadrol?
RustyhookerLook at the clinical uses for drol. Ive seen cases where the dose is quite large. Also, in many points run for a long time.
To answer your question....you ever see humans being tested for tbol,var,winny use/abuse? Of course not.
But drol has a legit medical use.
Because it was unregulated and marketed as a prohormone. So noone really knew how terrible it was as it didnt pass any fda regulations until it was banned.
Oxymetholone was a PH? I'm not sure if this is a confusion with names, but oxy (Anadrol50) was discovered in 1959 and then Syntex picked it up.
I had it confused with superdrol or supradol whatever that shit is called.
Sounds to me like your trying to hear even one person say take the oral tren you bought so you feel better about taking it just don't dude
No my friend, I am not even the least bit interested in OT. Yesterday I had a discussion on a member who posted his promo which included oral tren. It's just extremely interesting to me. Not OT, but the science in these compounds and why they are so toxic.
He's not. Hes asking someone to explain the science behind why certain compounds are more hepatotoxic than others.
I don't have the biochem chops, but I'm sure someone does. Any hepatologists up in here?
Ah gotcha
Thank you bro, yeah I'm kinda trying to dig deeper than I did yesterday about this subject.