Shaking Off The Rust: Mass
6'1
220
13% BF
AGE: Almost Old, but will never admit it!
Been on TRT for over 6 years. Been cycling the same.
Diet is always on point and for this I will be starting with a 500 calorie surplus and adjusting up as needed. I subscribe to the school of Nutrition 1st, Sleep 2nd, Workouts 3rd, Gear is just a bonus.
I've been running just the TRT dose for 18 months due to recovering from some personal ailments which also kept me out the gym. I kept my diet on point which kept me from getting fat, but I couldn't help losing the muscle mass. I wanted to wait until my body was ready to push, continually, before I dove back in. Well, that time has come and I just want another set of eyes to make sure I'm still I haven't lost any knowledge. You know what they say: "Use it or Lose it".
I've already setup my workout plan and allowed myself 3 rest days, not sequential. I also take cycle support, cycle assist, and liv52 while while taking orals. (Basically: I start them 2 weeks prior (already done) and continue them 2 weeks after the oral stops)
I'll run the TRT dose throughout the cycle to help normalize my levels going into and coming out of the cycle. The TRT Dose, TPP, and NPP are listed as per week amounts and will be pinned on M-W-F.
DBOL will be taken orally 2 hours pre workout.
Aromasin will be taken as needed if/when sides start to show.
Caber will be dosed at .5 mg/week in 2 split doses of .25mg (Tuesday and Saturday)
It should go without saying, however I will move back to my TRT dose ONLY at the conclusion of this cycle and will keep my calories in a surplus and slowly lower them to my maintenance level for my final body weight.
I'll start the cycle as soon as I get a thumbs up from my E-Family.
Thanks in advance for the eyeball!
| Week | Test C (TRT Dose) | TPP | NPP | DBOL | Aromasin | Caber |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 350mg/WK | 300mg/WK | 300mg/WK | 25mg/Day | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk |
| 2 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | 25mg/Day | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk |
| 3 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | 25mg/Day | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk |
| 4 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | 25mg/Day | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk |
| 5 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 6 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 7 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 8 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 9 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 10 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 11 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 12 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 13 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 14 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 15 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 16 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 17 | 350mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk |
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This is an appreciative update for all those who provided feedback.
GH was correct in advising the gear was garbage. I never would have questioned my American Pharmaceutical Testosterone was crap, but it was. I've been on the new brand since his post and things have changed dramatically. I have a lot more energy, my weight is going up, I'm hornier than usual, and my clothing fits tight again.
I visited my Doctor and explained the entire situation to include talking with you guys on this site. He told me he could run another panel, but if it comes back over 1,000 he has to lower my dose. He told me if I wanted to put on a little and continue running my current dose he would hold off on new panels until our previously scheduled visit, but if my estrogen goes up to let him know so he can adjust my AI; either way it was my choice.
I chose to continue with the current script and just run a 500 mg test/wk cycle for the next 16 weeks. I figure my body hasn't had good test in so long that a simple starter cycle is all I should need and so far I'm right. Even my wife is noticing the gains and she sees me daily. She tried laying on my chest today and told me my pecs were growing back to their pre-injury size (That made my week)!
Thank you all for pointing me in the right direction and continuing to prove the worth of this site for us all!!!
Hey bro,
I am sorry if I seemed like I was busting your chops. It took a long time for me to figure out what the problem might be. But, in the end, bunk gear was the only thing that made sense, despite it seeming so unlikely to you. I'm very happy you were able to confirm the problem and make adjustments. I think we still need to go over your cycle and plans. Feel free to reach out to me.
Good Luck,
GH
If the report comes back and shows the other Test was garbage and I'm now on good stuff, I'll run a 16 week Testosterone only cycle 500 mg. I figure my body has been without good gear for so long, I should be able to make some decent progress with a noob cycle.
I'll still have the NPP, TPP, and DBOL. I'll just use it on down the road.
Am I thinking correctly?
Major Edit:
I'm going to go the route GH has suggested. I'll order the female panel and blood work without my Doctor and if it comes back with better levels, I'll present the report to the Doctor for questioning.
Depending on that conversation, I may need to locate another Doctor.
New Blood Results:
Testosterone: 748
Estradiol: 8.4 (I took Aromasin 3 days prior to the test; my goof)
This blood work has a lot more information on it than the last one, so I may be able to answer more questions.
Doctor said people don't all respond the same to testosterone and I'm someone that appears to use it quicker than most. He advised he is the same way and takes 400 mg/Week.
He is not stressed about my HDL, but wants me to fast for my next round of blood work to get an honest number.
He is happier with the DHEA and D3 levels.
This was while using the Watson testosterone.
Heading for my Doc appointment and will return with new bloods.
I added my LABS as an update. It's the only way I know how.
Please check them out and let me know what I'm reading incorrectly.
Has your Doc ever mentioned anything to you about how odd it is that you require that much test for TRT? You are definitely an anomoly in that respect and I would be curious as to what he says the reason is.
No and I never thought to question it. I see the Doctor tomorrow to go over my most recent labs and I will ask. I can tell you he wanted my DHEA levels to go up as well as my Vitamin D3 levels. He also advised that I may need to stop taking the Aromasin, due to some men being on TRT so long that their bodies naturally learn to handle things without the meds.
What was your 1st blood test? What was your total estradiol, each one and also your total test and free test? What aboht lsh an hdl? I'm curious as to how come your body does not.like test unless you are a post op.
WAIT...Do you mean POST OPERATION?
You guys are making me a little concerned and a lot curious!
I think he might have meant post op like transitioning gender? Not sure
Oh.....Definitely not what I had done! LOL.
I'm very interested about the Post Operation portion! I was recovering from 3 surgeries when my last labs were taken.
On the report it lists the following ordered items:
CBC w/differential/Platelet; CMP14; Lipid Panel w/ LDL/HDL Ratio; Testosterone, Serum; DHEA-Sulfate; Estradiol; Prostate-Specific Ag, Serum; Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy; Venipuncture
I have limited knowledge on how to read the report. I guess I can print it out and black out my information so everyone can see what I see.
If I black out my info and the Doctor info, is there anything else on it that could eventually lead back to me?
My first blood test was some time ago, but I definitely remember my test number: 6. I don't remember anything else from my first blood test.
I can give you all the answers from my last blood test results, and I can give you updated answers tomorrow from my recent blood test ( I get the results from my Doctor tomorrow).
Estradiol: 17.6 PG/ML (it says: Roche ECLIA Methodology)
Testosterone, Serum: 515 NG/DL
LSH: I don't see an LSH listed
HDL: 42
LDL: 83
Your doctor should be concerned about your hdl. Do you use olive oil ? Do you take fish oil or eat fish? HDL should be higher.
The HDL and LDL really isn't that concerning. Sure his HDL is on the low end but the ratio of the two isn't bad by any means. Definitely optimal range
Switch,
I got new bloods today and they show this for HDL and LDL:
HDL: 44
LDL: 107
**Not fasted labs
Not bad brother, HDL on the lower end as you know. But the ratio doesn't look bad it appears like it would still in the normal range. Labs for lipid levels always need to be fasted though!
I didn't know the Doctor was going to run lipids until I went in for the results. From now on, I'll fast for all of them just to make sure. The Doctor said the lab messed up and ran a full panel without being asked to.
Thank you for the reassurance!
Yes to all.
That 350mg/wk for trt is raising red flags for everyone. Think you will need to clear that up before we can get much further here.
I don't know what to tell you guys. That is what I'm prescribed. 1.75cc of 200mg Test C/Week. Another guy going to the same Doc is on 2cc of 200mg Test C/Week which puts him at 400gm/Week prescribed.
Not trying to blow smoke up anyones skirt, just giving true numbers.
Bro, there are prolly a hundred or so guys, maybe more, on this site that are on medically supervised TRT from around the world. I was once a TRT patient but my steroid use made that a moot point and I no longer see a doctor.
Why don't you just do a tiny little bit of research into hormone replacement and instead of questioning you about this, why don't you tell me what is wrong with this picture? Because bro, if you do just a little bit of reading about how much testosterone a man produces per week naturally - let's not get into age issues - it will become very clear to you very quickly that there is, in fact, something very wrong here.
GH,
I don't believe I know you and have never lied to anyone on this site, nor do I do it in any part of my life. I am above that and would not sully my integrity with simple keystrokes; anonymity or not!
If you mean there is something very wrong medically, then I would only hope my Doctor would see this and bring it to my attention.
I fully understand how Testosterone works and how little some can take and have boosted results.
No disrespect, but if you want to only question my integrity I would ask that you please excuse yourself from this conversation.
If I am reading my results wrong, I apologize. However, we will find that out as soon as I get them uploaded; with redactions. I am not a medical Doctor and have never claimed to understand how to read the results I am provided.
You're dodging my question and hiding behind the idea that I am attempting to call you a liar. I'm not going to play that game bro.
I want you to tell me what is wrong with 350 mg / wk. as a TRT dose. Plain and simple. I know what's wrong with it. But, I want YOU to tell ME.
I don't care if it's doctor prescribed, pope prescribed or a revelation from God Himself, tell me what's wrong with this.
If you're a normal human being, you should have a vested interest in your medical treatment.
The finest doctors with impeccable credentials have almost ended my life more than once through sheer incompetence. Complete and utter ignorance that boggles the mind.
350 mg of testosterone per week for hormone replacement. I thought I've seen it all. I guess not. Why not 700 mg per week? Perhaps 1,000 mg per week? They are just not being aggressive enough here. LMAO
And furthermore from your comment below -
What? At 52 yrs. old? For hormone "replacement?" I think not. Why not? You tell me bro. This is more obvious. TRT therapy does not jack your hormone levels to where they were at 18 bro. LMAO
Why is this important? When you finally realize what's wrong here, you will also realize why adding more testosterone in some kind of "blast" is ridiculous.
I will give you my first non-researched thought. I believe males make about 50 mg/week and the question would be why is it that so much test is being introduced, but not showing in the bloods? Where is it going?
Nice. The plot thickens. Test in all its esters (prop, cyp, E, undecanoate, etc.) is a bio-identical human hormone. When the base hormone cleaves from the ester - the rate at which this happens depends on the ester - it enters the bloodstream as testosterone. It is IMPOSSIBLE for the serum level of bloodstream test not to rise and at 350 mg / wk rise HIGH. IMPOSSIBLE.
To be honest with you, the only explanation that fits here is that the testosterone pharmaceutical brand he is using is BUNK. Or, the lot number is bad. Or, the label indicating the dose on the vials is wrong. Or, the hormone has been somehow contaminated and compromised. You cannot, I repeat, cannot be receiving 350 mg / wk of testosterone with the blood levels you show.
And, so, there is no sense whatsoever under any circumstances in trying to run any kind of steroid cycle at all ever until this mystery is resolved. Good luck bro. Tell us how you make out when you figure this out with your doctor!!!