Shaking Off The Rust: Mass
6'1
220
13% BF
AGE: Almost Old, but will never admit it!
Been on TRT for over 6 years. Been cycling the same.
Diet is always on point and for this I will be starting with a 500 calorie surplus and adjusting up as needed. I subscribe to the school of Nutrition 1st, Sleep 2nd, Workouts 3rd, Gear is just a bonus.
I've been running just the TRT dose for 18 months due to recovering from some personal ailments which also kept me out the gym. I kept my diet on point which kept me from getting fat, but I couldn't help losing the muscle mass. I wanted to wait until my body was ready to push, continually, before I dove back in. Well, that time has come and I just want another set of eyes to make sure I'm still I haven't lost any knowledge. You know what they say: "Use it or Lose it".
I've already setup my workout plan and allowed myself 3 rest days, not sequential. I also take cycle support, cycle assist, and liv52 while while taking orals. (Basically: I start them 2 weeks prior (already done) and continue them 2 weeks after the oral stops)
I'll run the TRT dose throughout the cycle to help normalize my levels going into and coming out of the cycle. The TRT Dose, TPP, and NPP are listed as per week amounts and will be pinned on M-W-F.
DBOL will be taken orally 2 hours pre workout.
Aromasin will be taken as needed if/when sides start to show.
Caber will be dosed at .5 mg/week in 2 split doses of .25mg (Tuesday and Saturday)
It should go without saying, however I will move back to my TRT dose ONLY at the conclusion of this cycle and will keep my calories in a surplus and slowly lower them to my maintenance level for my final body weight.
I'll start the cycle as soon as I get a thumbs up from my E-Family.
Thanks in advance for the eyeball!
| Week | Test C (TRT Dose) | TPP | NPP | DBOL | Aromasin | Caber |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 350mg/WK | 300mg/WK | 300mg/WK | 25mg/Day | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk |
| 2 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | 25mg/Day | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk |
| 3 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | 25mg/Day | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk |
| 4 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | 25mg/Day | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk |
| 5 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 6 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 7 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 8 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 9 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 10 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 11 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 12 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 13 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 14 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 15 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 16 | 350mg | 300mg | 300mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk | |
| 17 | 350mg | AS NEEDED | 0.5mg/wk |
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The brand I have is WATSON and expires in 1/2017.
I still have about 2 weeks left in the bottle, but I'll toss it and start on a new one. That is my last WATSON and I believe Watson is all I have ever received until recently. My remaining bottles are from SUN PHARMA. If it is the testosterone, that would explain my not needing Aromasin as I normally do. I am normally very gyno prone, but I assumed it was something I somehow grew out of in the last year plus. My Doctor told me some peoples bodies adjust itself to hold back the estrogen without the need of medication. I thought this is what happened to me and actually made me very happy.
When I first started on TRT, it was with a clinic; never again. I got gyno from the clinic shots and they would not prescribe anything to get rid of it. Their answer was to stop everything cold turkey and all it did was make things worse and add on some depression. I went through 3 Doctors after that before I landed where I am. This one is a bodybuilder and takes care of me pretty well. He's gone so far as to let me know that he can let me know if I get good GH or not, if I decide to go that route (would just run an extra test).
***Side Note:
I apologize for being defensive, but sometimes things are lost in black white and not having the ability to see someone when they are speaking to you. I appreciate your wisdom and especially your concern. I've never questioned any testosterone received from the pharmacy, but I guess that was me having too much faith in American pharmaceuticals. I can only assume I will notice an immediate difference in the way I feel if it was the testosterone. For over a year now I've complained to my Doctor that my shot is okay for a couple of days, but then I trail off rather quickly. He too has never questioned the product and has always raised my dose. Today he explained that people use testosterone differently and it's possible I burn through it or filter it quicker than most. He has always told me I have the filtration system of an 18 year old (I drink 2 gallons of water/day) and I just assumed this was the case with the testosterone.
I hope there are no hard feelings and I am man enough to step up and say I was wrong for assuming you were questioning my integrity and I apologize for that!
***Also:
If you can tell me how to order my labs from somewhere other than my Doctor, I'll do it in two weeks to see where this bottle brings my levels to at that the same dose. I'll post them on here for you guys to see. I used to know of an online one that you could order and then take it somewhere to be drawn, but I cannot remember anymore.
THE GEAR IS BAD
RED FLAG #1
No bro, the body does not build up its own defense system by lowering the rate at which exogenous testosterone is aromatized into estrogen. Your doctor is wrong here.
RED FLAG #2
No bro, you don't "burn through it faster than most." What is happening here is that your doctor is assuming the medication is fine and grasping at straws for an explanation of why the medicine is failing to establish a correct blood serum level with you. If the testosterone you are taking is severely underdosed, that would explain why you need so much and the idea of upping the dose.
Blood tests can be obtained privately outside your doctor and insurance through
http://www.privatemdlabs.com/
Order the hormone panel for females.
There are 4 states that make this illegal, let me know if your living in one of those when you order blood work. You pay by credit card, specify what LabCorb facility is close to you. PrivateMd Labs will send an electronic "core" order to the LabCorp facility you specify that is prepaid. You go to LabCorp and have your bloods drawn and usually the female hormone panel results will be emailed to you the next day or the day after latest.
BTW, Not in your case bro, but I have questioned the personal integrity of many members that post on this website, especially new members with no eroids street credit. In your case, IT WAS NEVER ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL INTEGRITY at all, but, to be very blunt, when I saw what your doctor was prescribing you I felt like the guy has no grasp of hormone replacement. He should have realized that there is something wrong with the medicine he is giving you, not simply kept increasing the dose.
Be really careful with this doc bro. If you're gonna stay with him, you almost need a second opinion before you do anything he advises.
Of course, there are no hard feelings bro. I'm here to help people, not to insult or embarrass them unless the situation really warrants that which in your case, clearly not.
Their Site:
Due to state laws, we cannot provide services for RESIDENTS of or in the states of NY, NJ, MA, MD or RI.
I don't reside in any of these states and the panel you mentioned is pretty cheap.
Would you agree that 2 weeks is plenty of time for the new testosterone to kick in, starting this coming Monday (I'm going to do 1/2 ml today to get it in my system, and the 1.5 ml the next 2 Mondays.) I know what the results of 1.5 ml/wk was and what the results of 1.75 ml/wk was. If the results are higher than the 1.5 and hopefully the 1.75, we have definitive proof the gear was jacked...correct?
I would wait the full 4 weeks to establish a proper plasma level before testing. If you start pinning it inconsistently, front loading or any non-consistent schedule, the results will be inconclusive. Pin it twice a week and stay consistent with day hour of day and dose.
As far as having two equal experiments, shouldn't I keep my normal pinning cycle which is every Monday? This way the results from the new blood test, if they are different (I hope they are), cannot be due to anything but the introduction of a new testosterone. Of course, run it in this fashion for the 4 weeks as you have suggested to make sure levels are peaked and my body is fully saturated.
**On a positive note: I'm gaining muscle mass, which tells me my diet is still on point!
LabCorp will do it and there is a site semi local. I take new bloods in 2 weeks and see where the numbers are after using the new bottle/company (SUN PHARMA).
I don't mind waiting to start the cycle if it means better results, knowing that the prescribed brand is not jacked, and solving this conundrum.
My trt brings my total to up over 800, couldn't really give you a dose, it's from a pellet implant. In one of dr mcclain's videos he states the numbers should be in "optimal" levels of, I think he says, 800-1200, not "normal" levels.
My levels were at 650 and my urologist thought that was a little high but he wasn't to concerned about it. He recommended that I could reduce my dose a little bit if I wanted to. Obviously I didn't.
Bro you're 34. The OP is 52. 800 is over the top for your age, but at 52. Just not even conceivable.
Dr. Rand McClain? Yeah baby. That's who I would want as my doc! I bet I could get him to write me a script for every pharm grade medically available steroid out there. He is the bodybuilder's dream doc. I just need to move to California.
McClain is on the fringe bro. He's not doing hormone "replacement" - he's running a rejuvenation protocol.
Basic TRT protocol restores testosterone levels to mid-normal range for the patient's age. That's 99.999% of what's done medically today.
In a few of his videos some of the questions are "do you know of any 'good' doctors in my area?"...maybe the op found one of those....
Is this from one of those "trt clinics"? What are your T levels at with 350mg/wk?
Mak
I found my labs. Please ask any questions you'd like in order for me to prove my validity!
Not a clinic. I go to an actual Doctor Office. My labs are done on the 7th day after my shot is given and my last reading showed a level of 450 (I believe). I'll try to find my last results to confirm.
The only way this is wrong is if my math is wrong.
I get 200mg TEST C/ML = 50mg/.25ml
1.75 divided by .25 = 7
7 x 50 = 350mg/WK
Is my math wrong?
It shows: 515 NG/DL
If it takes 350mg/wk to get your level up to 515ng/dl, I can't really imagine that you are going to get much higher adding in another 300mg of test. Test just doesn't seem to be metabolized very effeciently by you. How high have your levels gotten up to while running a cycle and how much test were you taking?
Forget to ask, what are your free test levels at?
How is your estro with 350mg/wk?
I just realized I didn't answer everything:
Estradiol: 17.6 pg/ml
Free Test: Not Shown on the report
Report came from LabCorp
I have to go to an appointment really quick, but I will answer any and all questions as soon as I get back.
PLEASE ask any questions you'd like!!!
He also has added in 100mg of DHEA/Day.
Sorry for so many replies, but I want to make sure you understand I'm not feeding you BS and that you have all of the information I have.
DBOL is the new addition for this cycle and my hope is that it is effective for me.
I don't believe I've ever run over 500mg of test, but I've run it with others:
NPP
TBOL
Mast
VAR
EQ
Best gains ever made by me were on EQ.
I tried TREN A for a short period, but the lack of sleep was more than I could handle.
I have not had bloods drawn while blasting. My bloods are drawn every 6 months and I make sure to be back to my normal dose well prior to the draw.
I can tell you my Doc is trying to get me to around 900 and my first test, way back when, showed me having a test level in the single digits.
Upon first impression, it appears to me anyway that increasing test doses for a cycle is probably not going to do much for you except for increasing the chance for negative sides. I would focus on just keeping your trt dose and stacking that with another compound that your body may utilize more effeciently. I would probably stick with the shorter esters and run some shorter cycles until you find a compound that seems to treat you well. Then maybe you could go into a longer cycle with a longer ester for that compound. Stick with what works for you then.
I appreciate your input and advice! Is there anything particular you would suggest?
Also, is it possible to be a testosterone low responder?
You are kind of limited with the short esters. NPP, mast p, tren a. NPP could be something to try, but I would initially be concerned about deca dick if you don't respond well to test. Tren a, I would pass on that one. Mast P, you're bulking and not cutting so that is off the table. I like Adrol, pulsed 50mg 2wk on and 2wk off for an 8 to 10 wk cycle with your base test levels might be something to try. I wouldn't run it though unless your BF is pretty low, this seems to greatly reduce sides and keep the bloat away. You are kind of in a strange boat since you don't appear to respond well to normal doses of test. Hopefully someone else can chime in with some better ideas than mine.
Mak,
What about 1-test cyp? I have never run it, but I know you have. Would that make sense for him here?
I've taken NPP before without any issues in that department and that's what I'm looking at for this one. If you give me till tomorrow evening, I can give you new blood work numbers and let you know if the Doctor changes anything.
With you agreeing on my need for short esters (NPP), does the proposed cycle appear to be in line and without holes?
I appreciate your assistance and trust! I didn't realize my numbers were not normal, but it would make sense as to why the doses I've run in the past don't yield large results. I get results, but nothing huge.
Thank you Mak!
If you have ran nandrolone in the past without any issues I would go with Deca instead of NPP if you are looking at running a 16 wk cycle unless you are one of these guys that really enjoys jabbing themselves with a needle. With the NPP I would just run an 8-10 wk cycle. Might want to stick with the NPP and see how it goes with your 350g of test if you haven't ran it with that dose before. How much test did you use last time you ran it?
I believe I posted it on this site. I will have to look and see if I can find it. Give me a minute to find it.
My guess is 500 mg/week, but I am sure it was not more than that.
I must apologize...I have unintentionally led you astray. Those numbers are from 1.5 ml or 300mg/wk.
My new numbers will be for the 1.75 or 350mg/wk.
I don't know how much of a difference the added .25ml will bring, along with the added DHEA, but I apologize none the less.
Is that Doctor prescribed, or you prescribed?
Doctor Prescribed