TRT+, crashed E2
I am 49 y/o and have been on TRT @ 140mg/week for 10 years.
End of May on just TRT I was running:
Total T = 1082 ng/dl
Free = 311 pg/nl
SHBG = 21.6 nmol/L
E= 61.2 pg/nl
Because my E2 was already high, I didn't want to run a T only cycle with AI. I decided to run a short TRT+ cycle, Test and Primo 2:1. So 5 weeks ago I went to 200mg Test, 100 mg Primo EOD.
My goals are a recomp, I am currently around 15-17% BF and wanted to try for 12%, avoid catabolism and also hoping to provide libido support, libido at high E2 was not feeling great.
Lifting 4 days a week, cardio 3 days. 2200 Cal/ Day. I was a little worried about getting bad Primo and jacking up my E2 even more, so I ran bloods after week 4.
TRT+ bloods
Total T = 1309 ng/dl
Free = 396 pg/nl
SHBG = 17.4 nmol/L
E= <12 pg/nl
Lipids are good, CBC always runs a bit high (I live at 6000ft) , but not much worse than just TRT.
I feel pretty good, libido has been good, improved I would say. Workouts have been progressing. I am more short tempered than normal. Strangely I did get some nip sensitivity in the first couple of weeks, but maybe that was in my head?
Couple of questions:
If my only low E2 side is mild irritability how worried should I be about low E2?
If I wanted to adjust my cycle for the remaining 6 weeks to go more 2.5:1 or even 3:1, is it better to raise my T dose or lower primo?
This seems way more anti-estrogenic than I expected, typical for primo? Any chance that it is EQ or something else?
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I’m a Test/Primo guy, basically 365. Occasionally I’ll add NPP or Mast, and I’ve experimented with TNE and a few other compounds.
One thing I’ve noticed is that Test C and Test E were much harder for me to dial in with Primo. My E2 would swing around a lot while I was trying to find the right ratio.
Once I switched to Test Prop, it became much easier to make small adjustments. The shorter ester let me fine-tune things much faster, and once I found my Test:Primo ratio it’s become the smoothest trt+ I’ve run.
Your E2 dropping below 12 on what is essentially a 2:1 ratio tells me you’re probably just very sensitive to Primo’s anti-estrogenic effects. Before making any big changes, I’d probably reduce the Primo a bit rather than chase it by increasing the testosterone. It’s easier to bring E2 back up than it is to overshoot and end up playing catch-up again.
Everyone responds differently, but if you ever decide to try Test Prop, I found it much easier to dial in than Cyp or Enanthate.
Id consider leaving the primo and test alone and adding 400mg deca to clean that up.
Based off your profile Pic. I would take your words like they're gospel!! You must be a guru
Loving the melted candle look. I've always wanted to look like that. Any pointers on how to get my skin to become more like a blanket and less like a functioning organ?
Anyone?
Just run 400 deca a week? Ok then...
Ah i fucking love the poetic way you broke that down. That was beautiful!!
You know I'm beginning to have a crush on you right. Don't tell press but i think I'm falling in love with u. Lmfao
Get in line bro.
I won't tell @press1. Just gonna let him find out the old fashioned way. Wanna hear his English accent screaming at the top of his lungs.
Full blown British hate rage.
I have more important things on my mind right now than you acting like a Slack Arse Slut Milky - like being able to bench press a 45lb bar again LMAO
Internal rotation movements. Like masturbation will work wonders. Lol
Ur gonna be able to bench 450 in no time bby
You’ll get there my man. I know this must be absolutely killing you. If I couldn’t lift I’d be in shambles.
One thing I’ve noticed, you’ve kept your composure and integrity, I don’t think I’d be able to without the release from lifting
Deca wouldn't aromatize?
Deca wouldn't aromatize?
If that's your reason. Dbol would do it in a day. Deca takes weeks months even to fully kick in.
Idky people give advice if they don't even know what they saying is true like where they do that at?
Yea that's fair...dbol. BYW I did say Id Consider it...No guru claims here chief
Have fun with the trolling guys.
Just thought I would post an update, went 6:1 Test to Primo. Weekly dose of 300mg Test, 50mg Primo. Just got blood work back and that seemed to work pretty well. Total T at almost 1900 ng/dL, Free @ 560. E2 came back to 45 pg/ml.
Some people get low E2 even from 1:1 Test Primo.
That's some very low E2. How do you feel? I tanked mine with EQ this last winter and felt like shit - no libido, achy joints, flat affect etc. I definitely felt the crash, and bloodwork confirmed it. To get it out of the gutter I took 20mg dbol split 10mg preworkout and 10mg in the afternoon after lunch. I was basically feeling better within 72 hours.
It sounds like you are just mildly symptomatic, but I would still probably want E2 higher. I tend to suffer with lower-than-average E2. When my total test is in the 900s it comes back in the upper teens. If you need some immediate relief, dbol is great (assuming you have the cardiovascular health to support it). But if you aren't really suffering, you might consider titrating your test dosage up.
I'm currently running my test at 350 and primo at 250 and haven't had any low E2 symptoms, but I have bloodwork scheduled for later this month. But everyone is different. You might find a 2.5:1 test to primo ratio better for you.
I doubt you got EQ rather than primo. The "fake primo everywhere!" story seems to be a cultural memory from the 90s and aughts. I haven't seen Jano tests on most of the reputable brands showing fake gear.
Trt has you on cycle....way above normal.
Low e2 halts gains.
My trt doc had me around 8pg on e2 for abt a year before i kknew any better. Estrogen is cardioprotective, helps maintain sinovial fluid in joints and crashing it year round can lower bone density. Also i felt like absolute dogshit. He also didnt order the ultrasensitive lc/mc estradiol test so while it read 9pg, in reality it could have been 0. You rly do want it dialed, as high as possible in my case without symptoms.