posted Tue, 10/21/2025 - 14:27
1007
+ 1 Test/Tren/Eq cycle. Tbol to start, maybe winstrol to finish.
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Hi all, 28M here. I've often ran stacks that were certainly overkill. I've realzied more isnt better. My question is more so on dosing. I was intially thinking of running mast but I've read enough areas to only run it when you have a low bodyfat. I'm 5'9, 175lbs, lean but couldl lose like 10-15 lbs of bodyfat around my stomach that I put on while being forced to eat high carb food for a few months. Planning on running test, tren, eq. Also have T3 not sure if that would help? Test at 600 mg or so, tren at 200mg, and eq at 700 mg. Would love opinions and thoughts on the dosing and the orals.
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IronMarcusSounds like an interesting cycle! Best of luck with it, hope you get the results you're looking for.
Test and EQ sound like a solid base for bulking, plus plenty of people find that combo pretty tolerable. Good luck dialing everything in!
So based off all the comments which I really appreciate, I’ve decided I do want to mainly gain mass. So it seems like test/eq is recommended by all of you for sure. I won’t be using T3 or mast. Still debating on low dose tren? I’ve always been good with diet, so I know I can dial that in. If I could gain mass and lose a few % in body fat it would b perfect and I think that’s why I ever used tren at all.
Try some reta with whatever you decide. That will keep that body fat on the rebound.
Test / EQ is generally pretty safe and well tolerated for a massing cycle, but be warned EQ takes at least 12 weeks before you even start to see its benefits. 20 week cycles are the way to go with this compound. I personally went from 170 -> 215 titrating up from 500 test / 300eq to 600test / 600eq / 300 NPP over the course of 20 weeks. Save the tren and T3 for your cutting phase, or better yet don't run tren at all.
I wouldn’t worry about the orals. Unless you are in contest prep there isn’t any use for them. They destroy blood work and make you feel like shit after a week or two. My first cycle was 375 test only gained about 12 solid dry lbs in 16 weeks. After that I ran test at 500 and eq at 300 for my next cycles for 2 years before I stepped into other compounds when competing. Even on contest prep test was never over 600, eq in the early weeks of prep at 300, 300 mast e (when I knew it was real), then eq would come out and tren the last 6 weeks at 200 with winny added in the last 3 weeks at 50mg a day. 700 eq is over kill all these post about eq has to be ran high is BS. 400 test 300 eq, bust it in the gym and kitchen and you will see the results you want. Also I wouldn’t worry about a “cut” or a “bulk”. Dial your diet in and recomp as you go. Lose fat gain muscle at the same time I promise you it’s very possible I’ve done it plenty of times. My coach used to call it shrink wrapping and growing lol
Use a tool like cronos or myfitpal to tack your food and be consistent for 2 weeks, take progress photos, compare and adjust macros as needed. Typicallly only need to adjust carbs if you protein is already high and you are eating clean moderate amounts of fat.
Don’t do tren not worth it what so ever. Mentally, sides, sweat, sleep. All of it gets messed up. No point in ever doing tren unless you plan to step on stage anyone who advises other wise isn’t worried about your best interest
Also to add pretty much all the mast and primo currently is fake I would stay away from it. Notice 80-90% of the reputable sources have zero in stock for a reason.
IronMarcusInteresting stack! Dosing looks like a solid starting point, but dialing it in will be key to seeing how your body responds. Looking forward to seeing your progress.
Well done on the Sobriety buddy - it sounds like you have some interesting stories to tell
I have added you to the Recovery Group if you would like to share some of your past with us.
In your bio it says you lifted naturally for 10 years and then you were on trt for low test which led to your first cycle. How many cycles and compounds have you ran? You’ve got four to five compounds there including tren and orals. Unless you’ve ran all of these before why not simply go on a test only cycle, get your bf down to where you want with diet and training on point. If you’re running the cycle you’ve suggested above now at your age, what will you be taking in 10,15 or 20 years? This is a marathon not a sprint.
Never understood why people over complicate. Test only (gh/peptides as you wish) until you get to whatever composition you want. At that point I feel a lot of people wouldn’t care to add in other anabolics, they may be very happy with what test only can do
I 100% agree, brother man … but can I play devil’s advocate here for a second?
It doesn’t seem to be the case with our bro @tanmuscles, who’s smartly gathering more info to adding his journey…
Now, speaking from my own experience and some years around this lifestyle… not everyone can handle high-test only cycles (800–1200–1500mg). A lot of guys get hammered by androgenic sides … acne, BP, mood swings, oily skin … you name it. It’s not just about body fat either; some dudes just have higher 5α-reductase activity and aromatase expression, meaning they convert androgens like crazy no matter how lean they are.
That’s why sometimes it actually makes sense to add a more anabolic / less androgenic compound into the mix. You’ll see guys running low test with higher doses of Deca, Primo, or even Ment, and it works beautifully for those who can’t tolerate tons of test.
That’s where the old-school “Deca base” protocols came from … they were made for people who blow up with sides when test goes past a certain threshold.
So yeah, I totally agree with your main point … test is life(By far best way to get bigger in general), absolutely.
But beyond a certain ceiling, the extra test doesn’t translate to more gains … it’s just more conversion and more waste.
Finding that individual “sweet spot” is the real trick … everything above that is either turned into estrogen, DHT, or literally pissed away.
Side note for the nerds:
BTW, I’m not a “paper-only” guy, to be honest. Studies are cool, but they don’t always reflect what happens in the trenches. Bro science wins that fight more often than not, LMAO. That’s just how I see it, BUT:
Studies show that once androgen receptor saturation hits around 500–700mg/week of test, further anabolic response doesn’t scale linearly … instead, you mostly increase androgenic and estrogenic side effects (Kadi et al., 2000; Bhasin et al., 2001).
That’s why smarter lifters play with the anabolic/androgenic ratio, not just total mg.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11701431/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2964430/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8683244/
Of course, this doesn’t apply to everyone. First off, those “studies” are usually done on very specific subjects … and every time I see the term trained individuals, I already know they’re talking about some toothpick who’s never touched real gear, GH, or lived the actual lifestyle. (That variable changes everything imho)
We’re all different in this game, but it’s still good info to keep in mind.
It's always nice to hear legit big guys be realistic about gear. Not just talk up how great it all is.
I couldn’t agree more man. For 90% or more of people on here running test is all that’s needed, plus some GH. It’ll build muscle with the right diet and it’ll hold onto muscle with the right diet when cutting. It’s a naturally occurring hormone so i think at moderate doses it’s going to be the safest. And they are very effective with diet and training dialed in.
But over the years we’ve normalized this cycle progression, you run test only first, then you add this and then that etc etc. Until you’re at the point where this guy is proposing 5 drugs. I did it when I was younger, heavily lol. And came back down to earth after a couple years. I wrote a post on this back in 2016. I’m sure it’s still floating around here somewhere.
It's fashionable to do multiple compounds. I can't get past most of the potential sides from most of the shit id like to try. Thick blood from EQ, heart tissue growth from npp, hair loss from mast etc.
Im afraid I'll be a lame ass test only guy with the occasional anavar
@irongame427 was spot on, and @SeeOhShow made a solid point too … well said, guys!
Just a little addendum on T3…
T3 cranks up total energy expenditure fast, but it also skyrockets appetite to insane levels. Even with GLP-1s, managing that hunger can get tricky, and rebound can hit hard if you’re not dialed in
It’s one of those compounds that demands precision … timing, dosage, and control. It’s a non-selective metabolic accelerator, meaning it burns everything, not just fat. And when misused, it can hit the heart almost as hard as clen. Definitely not for everyone, not for every BF condition like Iron said, and not for every phase of a protocol.
Absolutely love the knowledge you have on all this. Thank you! I now realize even more how much overkill I was doing previous cycles. I think I’ll just focus on putting on quality lean muscle, so def no deca. And then as long as my diet is good, hopefully I’ll see some Body fat melt off. Really appreciate the info, I’m gonna keep it simple. Test/eq mainly it seems. I do have a bunch of mast on hand, maybe it could be used at the end if I get lean enough? But for now you’ve all helped me align my goals to just putting on quality lean muscle.
The drug selection is contradictory. You’ve got EQ which is going to increase your appetite and is traditionally used during bulking cycles. And then t3 which purely for cutting, winny which is a cutter, and the tren which id only ever consider suffering through for getting shredded. So what’s the goal of the cycle? If you’re looking to gain muscle if run test and eq and kick start with tbol. That’s a nice dry bulking cycle. But your diet is ultimately what will decided how much muscle you put on, along with your training and sleep. Drugs come last in the equation. If you’re cutting then I’d drop the eq, probably drop the tbol. You could run a low dose tren but I wouldn’t. It’s harsh stuff and really not worth it for a gym rat. Test and primo with winny at the end would be a good more mild cutter. Or test mast. But again, that’ll come down to your diet. T3 is pretty damn catabolic and not really necessary until you’re lean and trying to get really fucking lean. So that woke be a no go for me as well. I personally have no interest in getting below like 8-10% bf. You may feel differently.
DHT drugs like mast and primo definitely have value at higher bf despite what people say. You just won’t get the insane cosmetic benefits of something like mast at higher bf, but you still get some, plus all the other benefits of having a DHT in the mix.
Yea the goal is def to put on mass and keep it, I guess cutting will have to come later. Ideally I want to put on lean gains and burn fat. I don’t have body fat all throughout just I ended up putting on some stubborn stomach fat when I was locked up for 3 months that bothers me. However like you said, diet. So I def see your point. I’ll prob stay away from the t3 for sure. Appreciate the insight about the mast, I did read that as well about it helping with SHBG and estrogen even at higher bf.
You need to just stick with test for a while. You’re doing too much especially with how you look. If you have been training for 10 years and look like that you don’t really know what you’re doing in the kitchen or gym. Gonna fuck yourself up for marginal and temporary glycogen gains that you assume are muscle but really aren’t.
Yeah the photos are a couple years old. I need to update it, I’ve never made a post since I made the account a while back. The reason my physique has fluctuated so much was due to struggles with alcoholism which led to consequences, had large gaps in between. But I finally came to the rooms (AA) and have been sober for over a year. Working my program and just finally ready to work on my body long term with hopefully no more relapsing. But I appreciate the insight. I do need to look at my diet korand carefully, I’ll def focus on that more than the gear.
Great to hear on the sobriety. Alcohol does nothing but ruin gains and other aspects of your life. I think gear in a perfectly acceptable replacement if you’re going to also lean in hard to the diet/training lifestyle. Just fyi you can get big or lean taking just test. It’ll take years and several cycles before adding additional AAS is necessary. Do this safely and you get to partake in this lifestyle for decades.
Good luck with everything
Aye a fellow friend of bills! Keep it up bro! Better be doing your nightly inventory and upon awakening and 10th stepping. Hate that phrase meeting makers make lol.
Hahaha I’m certainly trying to do it now on pen to paper and not just in my head. Just got back from a men’s stag right now one of the most amazing meetings I’ve been too. I’m out in Souther California and the recovery and presence is beyond anything I ever saw on the east coast. This comment means a lot man, keep on trudging
Congrats on getting off the booze man. Looking pretty swole too. Keep it up. I'm jealous of ur full head of hair lol.
Thanks man, it’s been a blessing to finally come to acceptance with it lol. 12 years of court cases and DUI’s and jail, seizures etc etc. really makes you value the ability to go to a gym and exercise compared to laying in bed withdrawing. HAHA I was worried about hair loss and read that if you don’t have the gene you should be good. I haven’t noticed any so far after 3 cycles, just a tad bit of acne scars though on my back that didn’t go away. You ever try that finasteride stuff? My sponsors in Brazil right now getting a hair transplant lmao. 4500 bucks compared to the 30k in the states
Oh ya man. Nothing seems to help me. My hair is hanging on for dear life... About to throw in the towel. I must have the gene for sure.. I was going bald before I got on gear tho so I definitely can't blame the test.
Id definitely consider getting a hair transplant if I could justify the cost haha
I'll come down to Brazil and get a cheap one. Or I'll try the Larry Miller hair system.
Honestly 4500 bucks isn’t bad at all. I mean hell braces or Invisalign costs about that. And he went to a decent hospital not some ghetto backstreet op. They had him under for about 8 hours. He says the swelling is insane but it’s going down about 5 days after. One procedure and you’re done. The other guy know did it about 2 months ago and now he’s got a full head of hair from complete baldness. Science has def come a long way from the toupee hair.
Looking good bro 10% homo 90% hetero.
My bloods always come back 10-15% homosexual
The username has me dead lol
Do you even lift if it’s under 10%? The higher the homo the better the body
Exactly being married i do it for the admiration of other dudes now lmao as zyzz would say you mirin bro!? These kids today just don't know with there broccoli head influencers
If you don't plan on titrating up.
600 test
300 eq
100 tren
Save orals for near the end of the cycle so you don't gotta titrate the doses up if you're not planning to if you are I'd start with 300t 100eq 100tren I would definitely run eq over 12 weeks definitely not the tren tho I'd drop at 6-8 weeks or save it for later in the cycle there are so many options bro
At 175lbs that's plenty bro your eq and tren doses are higher than mine and I'm at 267 rn.
Perfect thank you! Yeah I’m completely open to hearing from you all with experience. I’ll keep the doses low as you just suggested. I’m completely open to the advice I get before I actually take anything. I’m not in a hurry nor am i competing. Appreciate you.
Ranger3252Why are you naked in your profile pic? That’s just fucking weird.
@randomdude
Put it back up for him
Maybe angry he liked it? ---- ;)
Yeah it really is. I shall update it