ChuckThaDuck22's picture
ChuckThaDuck22
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+ 3 Dumbbell pressing doesn’t equate to barbell pressing..

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To you vets this is probably common knowledge but here we go.

I’ve got stuck on my dumbbell pressing for quite sometime, I find the best negatives on it which promotes my hypertrophy quite well,, however, during this time I’ve rarely sat on the old fashioned barbell and knocked out sets.

My strength loss on barbell is ridiculously lacking compared to dumbbell pressing, I figured these two presses would enhance each other equally,

For the first time in my life I feel like a noob again on the barbell, to bring this lift up, muscle confusion and all, do yous recommend one week chest only dumbbells, then week 2 chest only barbell, and flip flop.

Or

Drop the dumbbell pressing all together and focus solely on barbell pressing for the next four weeks.. four weeks on four weeks off..

Is there any cable work you’d suggest to fill in some areas, strengthen the rotator?

Also been mixing light shoulder in with my push day instead of the normal sole shoulder and ab day..

Push , pull bro split, legs twice , 55 for four weeks. 412 for two weeks. Rinse repeat

Bigshark's picture

I feel like they are two totally different animals, one really won't make you stronger on the other. Dumbbells give a better fuller rounder appearance for my chest. barbells give me a wider flatter look to my chest. that's just my own experience. overall i like dumbbells better if i had to choose one, but they are both necessary i believe for overall muscle development.

RobertB80's picture

Found dumbells much better for shoulders and general hypertrophy, especially for upper chest (incline) now concentrate heavy lifts on bar to deads and squats only.

Jockstrap's picture

I was to a point that flat presses were wrecking my shoulders. Moved to dumbells and all the support muscles were activated. Took the pressure off my delts/joints and added thickness and balance. Its easy enough to switch it up every 6 to 8 weeks back and forth. I believe in changing workouts every 2 months. Volume vs time between sets vs supers and drops etc. Fatigue builds us up

DeeMan's picture

I don't speak on this but if ya know ya know but I've been in the heavy iron game for a few ticks and yeah when it comes to increasing bench press, dumbbell flat bench won't do the job and most powerlifters know that, not debatable. Now some guys might benefit from other dumbbell exercises that help their bench no doubt, but flat db press ..nahh. There are certain muscles to target like Seeohshow mentioned that will help increase your bench. I'm keeping it simple because there's alot more to it trust me. I don't wanna get all scientific and sheeet! But he gave you good advice honestly. Just watch out for injuries and lift smart. I told NWA that I just had a slight rotator cuff issue but had that issue many years ago so no big issue really but ya never know what happens on that flat bench messing around with a certain amount of weight or really any amount from what I've seen from folks.

press1's picture

You have to think of it like this mate - One exercise uses a long fixed bar which you are able to get leg and back drive into and the only direction you have to balance it is forwards and backwards so it is very easy to direct force into it. With Dumbbells you are having to balance them in 4 directions as well as up and down and often have to expend energy getting them into position too, so they recruit a lot more stabilizers. You should try solely using a barbell and then going back to dumbbells, that will REALLY humble you as you will be weak as hell with them lol

Quite a few well known powerlifters rate Incline Dumbbell presses as being a great exercise for increasing bench mainly because of the shoulder involvement and probably as the incline involves the triceps quite a bit too. I've helped a hand full of guys increase their flat barbell bench on here and the best way to do it is do a Barbell only bench session of say 3 heavy sets close to failure, then leave it 3 to 4 days in between and then repeat again, or however it takes for you to no longer be sore. Keep it going like that striving to increase weight and reps each time in one area or both. Drop any other chest work such as dumbbells, dips, cables etc.

Also leave shoulder training alone for the time you are doing this in terms of any shoulder pressing movements - if you are benching heavy and frequently then your shoulders will already be sore enough from benching and any further soreness will make progression difficult and will hinder your bar power/speed which you are trying to increase when getting stronger. Do things like lateral raises to the side and front with dumbbells as this will keep the shoulder girdle strong overall and the front delts will get adequate work from benching. If you follow this outline you will greatly improve what you can lift over 2 to 3 months, but if you start throwing in other exercises and don't stick to the plan, and chase the 'pump' rather than increasing plates on the bar then you will stall or find it much more difficult.

In terms of pec development from barbell benching, this comes down to how far apart your hands are from each other and your ideal hand spacing. I have 2 hand positions/spacings I use for pressing and the difference between the 2 is literally an inch at either end - so overall the distance is altered by 2 inches. If I use the wider of the 2 distances then I get great pec activation, a full on pump across the whole region and I am pretty strong in it too - but it does put extra strain on my shoulders which is the downside. If I then bring them in just 1 inch at either end then I am stronger as my hand is stacked directly over my elbow joint and my forearm is perpendicular to the floor - but I get virtually ZERO pump or chest muscle activation from it. Its crazy how such little changes can make a massive difference to your physique. So maybe that is something for you to play around with in terms of hand spacing.

ChuckThaDuck22's picture

Press this is valuable information, greatly appreciated!

In the case of hand placement I swear everything has to do with wingspan, wrist size and tendons.. the moment I lay my pointer finger on the inside of the standard set ring placement, my chest activation becomes non existent..

I don’t have to go close like some, maybe 90 degrees.. champagnes are even to much load on my skinny wrists, I’ve heard the greatest % of activation comes from a champagne press not at 45 degrees but mainly just 90 degree straight up pressing , wrist turned neutral as to not engage chest.. 30 degree incline ..

Now I need to implement this more it’s been way since prison that I’ve even touched weights, I reached my full potential natural in prison and I’m definitely not a mass monster by any means

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eighty7's picture

I did dumbbell presses only for a long time and my barbell bench got stronger. But when I do barbell presses only my strength with dumbbell presses doesn't go up. Dumbbells for me build more strength but not if you can't get a hold of heavy dumbbells. Most gyms don't go past 120lbs.

DeeMan's picture

@eighty7 yah nay?

eighty7's picture

Yes

DeeMan's picture

That's strange. So you're at or above the 120s on dumbbells?

ChuckThaDuck22's picture

This dingy rec center has only one 100lb dumbbell,. They’re charging over 400$ to use a shed sized gym ..

Kids wrist wrapping on lat pull downs, 20 sets of bicep curls, 30 pound dumbbell lateral raises, REAL lifting at its finest !

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Rosschestzip's picture

I think it depends on the persons structure. The bar path puts you in a rigid position and it’s just up and down from there, basically. So if that position/posture doesn’t hit your chest perfectly and give good pump and soreness then dumbbells may be better for you. But if you can hit the chest perfectly with barbell benching than barbell is 100% better than dumbbells.

For me I stay away from the bar because my stronger side takes over too much and one pec starts getting way out of proportion and so does the opposite front delt, but with dumbbells each pec is forced to lift equal weight. Plus the deep stretch you can get is killer

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DeeMan's picture

Yeah you're compensating which will eventually lead to injury on barbell bench. And yes body structure is definitely a factor without a doubt

Rosschestzip's picture

Ya I just can’t seem to correct it for whatever reason. That’s why I feel like maybe it’s structure. Same day maybe I’ll work with a trainer to see if I can fix it with form

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DeeMan's picture

No doubt different body structures benefit from different exercises and angles to those exercises. I'm an example of that. My tris want to take over in pretty much every damn lift

ChuckThaDuck22's picture

My deadlifting goes up like mad, long ass leg, long wingspan and short torso, harder to put mass on in general.

I was really made for distance running, that’s not even something I can get down with at least not now.

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DeeMan's picture

I admit I've never liked the deadlift movement but squats and bench yes

NWApatches's picture

Barbell everything just gets a guy big. I love those plates singing as I'm throwing that bar and I believe working with that heavy ass bar gives a different look. Dumbells are cool but... barbell>dumbell

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ChuckThaDuck22's picture

You’re right, can’t shy away from military pressing as well, it’s something about the rec center that’s just so depressing, crowded and toxic, I’ve had some of my best
Lifts in a crunch, LaFitness, surrounded by other males with high testosterone..

I’m watching the gen z come up in the gym and they’re obsessed with lateral raises; not even the right kind. Grabbing the 25 lb dumbbells and swinging up using all trap work, I make
My lateral shoulder grow with my slow controlled heavy ass 10 pound dumbbells, call me
Old fashioned which I’m not, what’s social media doing to the kids!

I don’t have kids nor any social media besides this

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DeeMan's picture

It Don't count if they aren't Rusted

NWApatches's picture

With chalk caked in the knurling on the bar. I like a rough one too when you put your hands on it it's like a hand grabbing you back. Mmmmmboy

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DeeMan's picture

U coming?

DeeMan's picture

You better believe it. Aye big ass fans blowing, music hitting hard, ammonia sticks everywhere with chalk... nothing modern about it. Get ya ass in and move something. We ain't got all day. I gotz things to do later on!

NWApatches's picture

Yeah buddy! bro... throw on some old Pantera, give me a cigarette and some chucks and let me get in rotation. I'm going to move some weight or die trying! God dog I miss them days brother.

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DeeMan's picture

My man. OG style. Figured you would. Yep yep

DeeMan's picture

As far as dumbbell bench pressing...man I haven't done that in many years, I'll do dumbbell overhead shoulder presses but I'm all about that barbell for bench pressing.
Again can't give much help on dumbbells but I suggest reps of 8 to 12-15 ....then drop immediately to the floor and hit push ups for a burn out. Maybe a pause in mid position. You'll feel it.

ChuckThaDuck22's picture

That’s the Arnie volume training, many have tried to dispute that method claiming all they did was increase cortisol after 1 hr 45 mins of training where test levels decreased etc etc ,

I don’t think that rule applies to the guys running AAS , I’m lifting in a tiny rec center gym littered with old retirees who’d rather talk each other ear off then lift, I stretch it out to an hour and I’m gone,

I work for the city so they provide me with this free memebership. No commute time, bike riding to work. Shits actually mad chill, however nothing chill when you’re the only one ever deadlifting and ever squatting.

Zero power rack in our rec center so I’m stuck squatting on a floating smith machine that weighs a whopping six pounds… I stay grateful because it’s better then no gym, I’m just limited in my abilities,

It’s funny watching 16 year olds wearing wrist wraps doing lat pull downs and flexing in the mirror. Never a compound lift , never a leg muscle worked, cutoff dousche T shirt , the whole fucking culture in the small city on Long Island where I live is fucked and the rec center is just a microcosm of said fuckery,

I’m really sliding off topic

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Chad P's picture

Bro I train in a 10x10 spare bedroom with enough equipment to fill 2x that lol. It’s also the back room upstairs getting blasted with the afternoon and evening sun. No AC just a little box fan. If I don’t pick up after myself I have 15 minutes of organizing and moving shit before I can even start a session. At the end of the day, it’s what I have and I love it.

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ChuckThaDuck22's picture

Don’t get me wrong I made much progress in the prison yard, no weights, pull-up bar, dip bar and burpees and I was cut up like a bag of dope.

I’m simply saying the microcosm of the rec center is directly related to the shitty politics of our city, its notoriously run by the mob, don’t believe me watch “City by the Sea with DeNiro..

I lifted at Building 2 in Altoona, it’s a fucking dungeon with multiple rooms with multiple old contraptions for
The 80s and 90s , posters signed by sponsored pros going back to the 70s etc, it was the nicest culture by far.

I have union reps breathing down my throat trying to find a way they can find dirt on me,
Political bullshit that’s all

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DeeMan's picture

Nah in my opinion you right about the gym being a microcosm of our society today. Definitely!
And I got good results following Arnie's workouts in the past

DeeMan's picture

Another good post by Chuck Duck.
So I've had a talk with a few guys in my gym about this in the past. No dumbbell strength doesn't equate to barbell pressing strength at all. One of my buddies repped 120 pound dumbbells with relative ease but yet he couldn't come close to a 315 pound barbell bench press. Surprised the hell out of me. It was strange man. I'm a barbell bench guy but dumbbell presses I find did give me a better stretch and sometimes better pump but that just depends. And no dumbbells DO NOT increase your barbell bench press, barbells do that. Like I said I'm more of a barbell guy but I do incorporate dumbbells in my workouts from time to time.

ChuckThaDuck22's picture

The ego kicked my ass and during lockup all I could think about was getting back to pressing and repping the 100’s.. Today I learned a valuable lesson and it all makes sense, all core work and multiple joint inclusion while pressing a bar rather than a dumbbell which allows for the accentuated full rom ..

I’ve been overlooking this for the past month, never again

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SeeOhShow's picture

I like heavier for barbell 4-8 rep range. And lighter for DB work 8-16 rep range. Will start my push day with heavy compound movement (flat/incline) and after 3-4 heavy working sets where I can’t get 4+ reps in the set without dropping weight then I transition over to DB pressing for about 3-5 more working sets in that higher rep range. Then my chest is done. Then tricep work will be things like weighted dips, close grip bench, tricep push downs etc.

But my bench is weak as fuck compared to my legs. Bench ~330 but squat ~500

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ChuckThaDuck22's picture

It’s nice to hear someone working around a complete power press in the range of 4 , that just makes your dumbbell hypertrophy range a cake walk id imagine.

So im gathering no rotating back to a hyper 10-12 on the barbell, in this case I’ll follow this methodology and deload on my every fifth week to 75% of my max.

Appreciate you honed & your squat is beefy, monster 500 pounder , awesome shit

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DeeMan's picture

Yeah he gave you good information. Hope that helps

SeeOhShow's picture

Correct no rotating to that 10+ range on barbell. It’s always max tension typically in that 4-6 range. Only time I ever push to 8 is when trying an AMRAP on certain weights. That’s how I track strength progress vs doing a 1RM. After a training block, I’ll do what I was doing in the beginning of the block for 4-6 for an AMRAP. Sometimes that’ll push the barbell in the 8-10 range, but strictly as a max out set at the end of my training block before a deload and starting back over.

As Deeman said, I get a better stretch and pump from DB especially when cranking the higher reps with a pause in that deep stretch position.

I’m essentially trying to balance between strength work and hypertrophy work in each session. I know I’d get better gains focusing on one per block, but I enjoy lifting heavy still. So I’ll take modest gains working on both simultaneously. Was very hard as a natural. Much easier to work on both (and make appreciable gains on both simultaneously) while on gear. It’s the recovery that gets you as a natural.

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DeeMan's picture

Good Info

ChuckThaDuck22's picture

Edit: last sentence 5x5 for four weeks, then drop to 4x12 for two weeks on all rep set

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NWApatches's picture

Really? Focusing on the stretch and the mind muscle connection or you hurt? I rarely do less than 135 but working drop sets all the way down are a favorite of mine

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