+ 12 My experience so far coming off after 15 years straight
Thought I would share where I’m at so far coming of gear and running pct for this first time in 15 years after blasting and cruising continuously.
When I was blasting I would go up to around 3 gram EW always with a test base around 1000-1500 mg. Then I would add stuff like mast , tren , NPP, primo ect and orals occasionally either dbol and oxys and winny and clen if cutting.
When I was cruising it would be test only at 500mg EW
Now as I’m mid 40s and a family man I’m getting much more health conscious. So when I was doing the above I was monitored by my doctor, my RBC was high and my BP was running around 150/90 so I donated blood every 12 weeks and took ramipril twice daily, this took my BP down to around 135/85 not ideal but better.
I decided to start coming of completely with a view to cycling on and off.
I used PCT of clomid and tamoxifen for 6 weeks tapering the dosage down, I never used hcg as I believe it’s pointless.
Coming off was/is brutal … physically I’m very surprised as I’ve maintained most of my size and my weight hasn’t changed much although I did come off a cut cycle so bf was down. My T-shirts feel a bit looser around the arms and overall my strength is down a little bit mostly with rep range not weight.
Emotionally it’s been brutal but my dad did pass during this period and I also had to put my dog to sleep. Motivation has just not been there I’m not enjoying training like I did and it’s only discipline that’s kept my head in the game. As you guys know eating for gains and maintenance at my weight and size is a job in its self and sometimes you have to force feed, but now it’s 10x worse I’m really struggling to get the food I need in and I’m turning to more liquid eggs and smoothies ect to keep the protein and calories up.
My sex drive is none existent , I mean zero interest although if the wife initiates it I can still get it up and finish but honestly the desire has gone and I would prefer to watch gold rush or deadliest catch.
I have a full health check including blood and hormone panel , heart liver and kidney scans and test coming up on 29th of this month, my BP is down to 120/75 and I’m no longer needing to take ramipril.
When I get bloods back and if everything else is ok It will of been about 4 months I have been off for and I will jump back on a cycle and hopefully everything is fresh so I can up my game. The goal is now to compete and to cycle on and off completely for the next few years then re-evaluate.
Once I start my next cycle I will keep a full cycle and training log if people are interested.
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Sorry for your loss as well brother.
Blessings and my condolences to you and yours for your losses. Respect and appreciation for coming off and sharing your experience with us. A brave and valuable contribution my brother
Curious question.
Running gear that long at sometimes what is considered high dosages, how's your heart health?
Did the doc ever do an ECG to map your heart?
I worry about my heatr growing after long term use and leading to heart disease as a result.
My mother (79 now) recently was diagnosed with heart disease and i learned more about it then i ever knew before. Hers was a result of years of cigarettes, obesity, and diet. The doctor explained that the heart actually grows interiorly. It can't grow new tissue on the outer surface, so the inner surface grows inwards making the space inside the ventricles smaller.
This expressed itself in her case by severe water retention (the body pushes the blood into the other ventrical but without enough space the water is pumped back out down where it came from) and as a result of less space low blood oxygen levels. She's actually on oxygen therapy now.
Just curious what your experience has been.
Also what happens is your Ejection Fraction becomes less as the left ventricle becomes stiffer and smaller, so the total amount of blood your heart can pump out with each beat becomes less making it less efficient. Its something which if caught earlier enough can be improved and reversed especially if you drop the amount of gear you run, but I believe there is a point of no return if it gets too bad.
So first of all I definitely don’t recommend cycles like I have run to anybody. I had problems with RBC count being high and blood pressure being high. However I was and still am monitored by health care professionals so any issues have always been addressed fast. I took ramipril for my BP and a few time the dosages was raised in accordance with my hypertension. I also donated every 12 weeks and took baby aspirin daily to counter my RBC issues some times I would need to see a phlebotomist to let blood on top of my donation schedule.
I ran bi monthly blood work to stay on top of it.
I had a full health check every year to check my organs including heart and all is fine up to now.
Donating blood and one baby asprin ed really made a massive difference to me
Reading the title, I thought you were returning back to a gay lifestyle.
Pmsl your confusing off with out there I think
Thanks for sharing that my guy! I’ve been through similar things and have had similar concerns. I’m in my 40s with a family and this past year I’ve really focused on being the healthiest I can be. I want to be around to enjoy grandkids some day as well as great grandkids. Between diet and Holistic approach to health everything is night and day for me. I wish you the best on your journey and that your health stays on point.
Thanks for sharing brah
anvilBig guy,
Thank you for sharing this and your experiences. Sorry to hear about your father and dog. Heartbreaking stuff for sure. You will still be the biggest guy anywhere you go, so don't let it mess with your head. I am in your corner for sure my guy, motivation, training ideas whatever you wanna shoot the shit over I got ya.
I appreciate your transparency with gear use, and you know I support it. As a guy I really respect and appreciate, I know you will do great things. <3 Love and respect brother in iron.
My guy
anvilAlways bruh
I really dig your transparency and your dedication to a more sustainable path. I think you’re progress will be followed by many of us here.
First off my condolences for the loss of your father and dog. I gotta say that you have been transparent about dosages and getting your health check ups so if that's the route a man decides to go then this would be the way to do it. You've explained why you thought you needed to use high gear and pretty much explained what you needed to explain. Again, you know I've been transparent with you so you already know high gear has never been my thing..never, so I don't condone high gear use but this isn't about me but about you. I cycle on and come completely off. I DO NOT trt. I've tried trt two short times though. Point is overall this is a wise decision on your part and even though it's a struggle it's well worth it in the end. I can say these things because I personally go through them with no help from trt. It is hell sometimes man, straight hell. Yes in past sex drive has been non existent but over the years it's gotten better I admit. Yes just like you I lose a bit of strength but I maintain a good bit of it. But losing size and strength will happen. Good to see your blood panel coming up soon, I have one coming also. Hey man if I were you I wouldn't ever second guess this decision. As you know you can still make damn good strength and size gains using way less and I'm not telling you something that I haven't done, that's why I feel I can speak on this and not just parrot info to you. Anyways keep us posted and I do agree with this decision of yours. Man hopefully you decide this is the better route. Good luck and update us
Cheers buddy, me and you have slightly different views on a couple things but I like the chats we have and sometimes the banter.
I respect the way you address our differences of opinion and as always I appreciate your input buddy
Thanks. I feel the same way. Stay healthy
The BP thing alone should give you a great mental boost for wondering if this was/is the right thing to do. There’s so many downstream negative effects of running high blood pressure constantly. Being your size and getting down to 120/75 without the need of BP meds is 100% worth it, from the outside looking in. Internally, I know the feeling may not be the same as the training is something you spent years and years building up to and it’s truly depressing seeing that erode away. I’ve been there, so I know first hand.
Keep on the grind. You’re likely going to inspire other folks on here to take measures to better their overall health in this game. That’s priceless.
Oh yeah the BP drop is brilliant better than my doc thought it would be , my resting heart rate is 60-65 bpm now and it was in the 80s.
When you’re smashing the weights about feeling like you’re invincible you tend to lose sight of what’s important and play roulette with your health.
Kicker for me was, one day I was sat at my desk in the gym force feeding my self and having to stop to catch my breath … the wife looked at me and said there’s no point being the biggest corpse in the cemetery you got a family to think about. That hit hard.
I’m glad you’re seeing benefits from doing this, great motivation to keep at it. If you came off and everything stayed the same I’m sure it would be tough to keep doing it. Keep strong brother
Have you done anything to help bring down the heart rate or did it come down on its own? I just stopped my cycle because my blood pressure was too high and heart rate was too high. And i could actually feel the blood pressure, just mad me feel like shit in the evenings. I came down to a cruise level and now I started gaining weight again lol, I think the higher doses had my metabolism cranked into overdrive or something, but heart rates still up there, any tips?
Getting my blood pressure and also the weight loss have definitely helped lower my heart rate and I also think coming off the gear for a while has contributed for sure. This coming off completely has done good for my health and im thinking it’s going to be my plan for the next couple of years 20 weeks on 20weeks off. That is as long as my health stays relatively good , first sign of any problems I’m off . I expect BP and heart rate to increase slightly but not to the levels it was.
Jesus - that resting Heart rate is SOOOO much better mate! I'm jealous, I want that LOL
Funny thing is at first bud when you go back on it will piss you off when your BP and HR increase again, you will want to stay where you are at.
Although you cannot lift as much, you must be finding it so much easier in training to get your breath back and to recover in between sets now your heart isn't working half as hard?
Definitely mate , I was getting out of breath to easy, I was sometimes having to catch my breath will talking . Was getting heart palpitations regularly and that’s stopped now too , I’m having my organs scanned on 29th they use ultrasound on your heart to see the size and that it’s beating correctly with good flow … I’m basically having a full MOT But I do feel better health wise it keeping the ballance between health and mental health right because honestly coming off messes with you emotional wellbeing
Push for a heart monitor and a stress test also. Those results combined with the ultrasound results is what a good cardiologist will make an assessment with. If things don't look good then they will go for an MRI next. The good thing about that is they are able to scan other organs also. With mine they picked up some large liver nodules. I honestly thought they were just doing my heart. I'm not too fond of any of the findings. Certainly one of those you've got to pay to play situations
Had them all mate yearly and will continue to as long as I use gear at least.
Are you off now? How long were you on for and did you run pct?
Are these some recent tests you have had done buddy? Have you come off for the time being?
I use to get that during my crazy tren days, someone can stop you in the street to talk to you and you are there trying to catch your breath (but can't lol) and they are stood there wondering whats wrong with you! Lmao Worst mate is when you have to walk up the stairs to menswear in River Island or Next and when you get to the top you are too fucked to look at the clothes for 5 minutes!! Had the heart palps too, which are frightening when they come on during training and do not go for a few days after. I've had the Ultrasound also in hospital where they will lay you on your side and run the imager over your heart - you can see it working on the screen in front of you. They measure the thickness of your chambers and walls etc and see if your heart has got thicker or not. Be prepared for the fact they will probably say it has a little, if you have run trenbolone multiple times it seems particularly bad for altering the heart because of the increased HR and BP it causes especially in training, the good news though is if you lay off those harsher compounds it can actually shrink back down again if its not continually stressed again as all its done is adapted like a muscle does.
Well said mate - its quite a difference going from feeling all of your heartbeats after every little thing you do even just like getting into bed and laying down, to feeling nothing at all and not even being slightly out of breath. One of the biggest drawbacks of running gear in my eyes.
Big respect Stokes. The only thing I use hcg HCG for is to bridge into PCT also to jumpstart production. It certainly helps. We talked about you coming off but I wasn’t sure if you would follow through but I respect your decision in confronting the mental challenges that may present themselves while being off.
Thanks mate
Absolutely Huge respect for being totally honest about your situation and what you are going through mate, the reality is a lot of guys who live for training and the lifestyle get caught up in this vicious circle and it can be very hard to get out of because it becomes your normal daily life, and you don't want to lose any of what you've worked very hard for over the years. I imagine it being even harder when its your livelihood working in a gym and constantly being around others lifting all day.
I can tell you are still finding it very tough bud as you are not as sociable as you use to be and not wanting to talk half as much, but from the outside looking in you are doing extremely well with it all to me. You have managed to stick with it which I didn't actually think you would, your blood pressure has come down massively if you are no longer needing to take medication everyday which is going to do wonders for virtually all of your organs. Out of interest what was your Bodyweight the day you came off and where is it now?
Been a proper moody boring bastard ain’t I buddy …. I’ll be right soon enough and back to my old self, I’m starting to feel better already.
When I came off I had just finished a cut and was floating around 262lbs and currently I’m sitting around 255lbs bare in mind i was about 280lbs - 285lbs when I started the cut cycle and dropped my calories .
LMAO Its to be expected mate - the world has just become a totally difference place to be in, we generally like to talk and socialise when we are happy and full of energy which when you have just depleted yourself totally of testosterone is the total opposite. Plus having the loss of your father and dog also at the same time I cannot even begin to imagine. If you weren't such a strong minded guy for sure you would of jumped back on, I know I would of. So it works out about 2 stone then - to most people you will still look huge and no different, its just to yourself its much more apparent in things like the fitting of your clothes etc. Was it the Chihuahua that fell ill?
Yeah it was one of my chihuahuas that had to be put asleep he had heart failure and was on medication the last 2 years.
My T- shirts are definitely a bit loser around the arms and back that’s for sure
Damn. Hope you start feeling better soon. Im curious though if you looked into an actual "restart" protocol instead of trying the standard pct since you were on for so long. I know you said you think hcg is useless but you might want to look into atleast giving it a shot (pun may or may not be intended). Hcg seemed to work for me when I took it.
I was never planning on staying off, i just wanted to get some health issues under control and basically refresh my system. The goal is to be able to cycle on and off and maintain my self as much as possible. I honestly believe I’ll require TRT for life once I stop cycling on and off completely but this will be prescription try from my doc.
I intended to compete and if I do ok maybe I’ll do it for a few years but the end game is retiring from big weights and carrying this much mass when I turn 50 and focusing more on fitness and health , I’ll still lift but nothing g like I do now
Thanks for sharing. You've got a lot more experience than I do but like you said....this sounds brutal.
Won't you need at least 6 months to a year to see if your body will start producing testosterone and at what levels?
Going through the physical and mental anguish for 4 months just to hope back on cycle and then go through it again when you stop sounds like a bad ride.
My natural yest will be crazy low if it comes back at all, I already know that. I have abused steroids for over 20 years and be blasting and cruising for the last 15 and age is not on my side either.
My goal is to compete but to be able to come off and clear my system for a few months in between each cycle. Its not ideal but its the better of 2 evils for me
+1 Yeah man some studies do say at least 6 months minimum to fully recover. The longer you're on the longer it usually takes to get things going back to normal but that's the risk we all take. Good question though