+ 2 Running gear on top of prescribed TrT
Alright so I’m almost 30 and been diagnosed with low T.
Could have been with the steroid use at a young age or do to a bad car wreck I had last year. (Doc said massive trauma and opioids can wreck your testosterone)
I’ve been on Trt with 200mg of cyp weekly for almost a year.
I did get a bottle of test cyp 250 from a buddy and decided to run it on top of my prescribed amount for a total of 450mg/week.
The last full panel labs before the increase were perfect with test at 1320 and free test at like 400ish I believe.
I just had an annual checkup where they checked everything but my testosterone and estrogen.
Everything looked perfect and I feel great.
My question is,
How long could I run 450mg weekly?
Could I go higher?
I’ve been wanting to run Tren to see how that goes, but not sure what a dosage protocol would look like on TrT.
I have aromasin on hand if needed but I’d prefer not to get too crazy with it.
In other words how much can the average guy get away with without having to worry about PCT and keeping sides mitigated.
I work in the oilfield as coiled tubing hand so it’s often impossible to get into a gym but I do make rigging up and down a workout and I’ve seen massive gains in strength and fat loss since running test at 450mg/week
Thanks in advance guys
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I'm newly on TRT and run very low .5 taro testosterone cyp. Anyways .5 e3.5d
I have to admit even that little has spruce me up!
I'll be looking to blast in the coming months
Enjoy the blast of test. That was my first cycle as well. A short blast of upping trt to 300mg/week. Got major gains off that cycle.
As for the tren, maybe research some other compounds for your first add on. You can use less and get more for now. Save the tren for a bit down the road. A low dose of NPP. Or even just run some dbol with with your trt for 8 weeks.
1320 is already on cycle. Thsts not trt.
Well that’s not a very helpful comment.
True non the less
Agreed.
Your test numbers are already above the reference range on just your trt dose. While i agree with the whole "if you're going to do it you should maximize your trt". But trt is meant to get you back into the reference range because you've fallen below it. Your dr has you running a low end cycle or "sports trt" dose. If the doc is happy with it that's cool i suppose. But not every doc will feel that way. Mine certainly doesn't They dropped me from 150mg/wk to 130mg/wk when my numbers broke 1000 total t and over 200 free.
In regards to running the cycle 12 weeks is the basic low end time frame most people will recommend. You could do 16 if everything is going well and you have enough time to get the excess test out of your system before you need to get your trt bloodwork done. www.steroidplotter.com can show you how long you need to give yourself between stopping the increased test and when you will be back down to you trt baseline. If this is your first cycle, and it sounds like it is, then leave any more increasing of the dose for another time. There' absolutely no need to go balls to the wall right off the bat. You need to take a slow and steady approach to make sure your body is handling everything properly. Personally i would probably only try and extra 150 mg/wk to start to see how that goes. You have no idea at what dose you're going to need that ai yet. 350/wk is where i need to start taking .5 mg of arimidex every other day. You can always add more test next time. If you're getting good results as is you really don't even need to push it up right now. Are you able to get bloodwork during your cycle to see how your body is responding to everything? If not then messing around with this stuff isn't a good idea. You might feel fine but that doesn't mean everything is going well on the inside. You may well need to be taking that aromasin but if you don't have your e2 levels checked you might not realize it until its too late and you've already got gyno developing. Bloodwork is not an optional thing here.
Leave the tren alone. You aren't anywhere near as experienced as you should be to touch one of the strongest and most side effect prone steroids. If you aren't able to do the stuff in the above paragraph just forget about it all together. Almost everyone here that has any sense will tell you that the first few cycles are test only. Followed by adding in 1 compound at time. You need to know how your body handles just the higher level test before adding in something else otherwise you'll just be chasing your tail trying to figure out which compound is causing you issues.
If you're on trt you so don't need to pct. You just drop back down to your trt dose and that's that. PCT is for people who are trying to kickstart their natural hormone production again. You aren't doing that as you're relying on exogenous test to keep your levels up.
I will say you're at least doing the right thing by asking for help form others more experienced than you instead of just running more then coming here after the fact looking for help figuring out why it isn't going how you want it too. So good on you for that. If you need some info on getting private bloodwork done you can send me a friend request and i can pass along some stuff i've shared with a couple other guys in your position.
I tried to use the link. Just don’t fully understand. Would you mind explaining so I can navigate the results?
Pretty self explanatory. You set the amount of weeks you want to track. Add in the compounds you're using 1 at a time. How much, how often and for how long. Then hit plot. It will show you your blood concentration levels. So at what point you'll reach peak concentration, when it will be back out of your system, how consistent its levels are based on injection frequency, etc.
Thank you for the feedback!
My doctor felt like she could give me the higher script due to the high physical demands at my job. So far it feels good and everything has looked good.
I’ve gotten a lot of good advice here and I’m going to hold my compounds I have on hand for a later date when I feel like I’m more ready for it.
I’ll add you for that bloodwork!
In you 20's with low T? What was your free test number? I've never heard of someone in their 20's getting hrt honestly. Is it a genetic thing?
It’s becoming extremely common. I had high/normal levels prior to my accident. But almost a year later they still hadn’t recovered and my total t was In the 2 hundreds.
After breaking numerous bones in my legs and being pumped full of opioids for months my T just never recovered.
Is that really all that surprising these days? Where dudes in their 20's have the t levels of guys in the 60s-70s from just 30-40 years ago.
If you live in the modern world there's just no avoiding all the things that screw with your natural hormone production. Endocrine disruptors are in our plastics, your shampoos, body washes, synthetic fragrances, your water, your non stick cooking pans, your heavily processed foods, etc. It really shouldn't surprise anyone that we have so many young men have their test levels in the toilet when the things you interact with every day are destroying them.
100 on this. We recently did a job for a customer in his early 30’s, we got to talking and he brought up how much weight he had gained being off work as a stay at home dad. I mentioned running trt the last 3 years and how much I’ve benefited in overall quality of life when he told me he had his levels checked. He was barely over 200, I couldn’t believe it when he told me his Dr shot down being put on TRT and told him he just needed to focus on his diet and getting exercise. I was at around 375 at 40 years old before hopping on.
Sorry bro I confused you with Donutgains and was kicking down wisdom. I just noticed I said that to you and we're close in age so you clearly don't need this advice. Donutgains this novel is for you brother.
You can probably edit your last post to tag OP. The first one has gone over the time limit for editing though.
Who's OP? I'm OG on here but things have change so much recently that I get confused on here sometimes and I litterly don't know what you're referring to brother. Laments terms please if you wouldn't mind.
OP = Original poster. So Donutgains. But it's past the edit time window now anyways.
Oh shit I get you now bro. Sorry I had a couple of cocktails tonight so I'm not my best self. Thank you though.
Also natural test is hereditary. My pops walked around at 5'11 240 and rarely worked out. So I was destined to be a thick man myself. I was naturally good at all sports without trying. Got a football scholarship without really trying. Genetics play a huge roll in you AAS results. I know you've seen dudes at the gym with all biceps and no tris. No legs for shit and capped shoulders and no real athletic ability. Mofos walk around with their arms out like they can't walk through a doorway. Don't be that guy. If you go on the internet people will tell you to run the same gear that people were running 15 years ago. You got to figure out what works for you my guy. It's trial and error. I'm an easy gainer so if I do 50mg dbol. with 500 mg test I'll swell up to 250 looking like I need to have my release valve pulled to let the water out. It depends on what you want from you gains though but always error on caution and be careful. I personally ran gear prior to mma fights and the cut hard with clen. I looked twice as big as my opponent every time at heavy or light heavy and kept the power. Everyone's different though and everyone has their own reason for using AAS. I started at 17 and was a man amongst boys but I many trials and tribulations. I plan a cycle like I plan a tattoo. Plan it then wait 6 months. If I'm not in love with my choice after 6 months then I retract the original Idea and start over. I always had a reason for going on gear and used as little as possible as I'm an easy gainer. It's tempting to use all the different shit out there but you don't need it all. Find what works for you and stick to it. Make sure you taking time off and using a proper pct and hcg. Too many young dudes forego the little things that keep your health adequate. If you're not juicing for sports in your 20s and just doing it for the fuck of it then I encourage you to check your shit. Juice is for when you're already at your peak and you're willing to push even further. Otherwise you're just going to damage you're BP and cholesterol and that shit is not fun. IF you're not an athlete then you're not competing with anyone and you're either training for a show or just trying to be a beast for the ladies and warding off other dudes. Fuck that shit if you wanna be a badass just get a Glock 32 and protect your guts homie. And if you do roll or compete pro, they test now so fuck it what's the point? TRT in your 20's is crazy. I'm 42 and a former Jiu Jitsu state champion in multiple states and played college football. I still don't need TRT yet and I use shampoo too brother lol. Get your bloods and come back on here and we'll counsel you with the right TRT dosage if necessary and then you can keep getting bloods until you're at a adequate test level. 150mg is probably too high for you especially if you're cruising at that dose. It's all math and science brother so let us old jackasses that already had to find out the hard way guide you so you don't make the same mistakes we did. I've made more mistakes then I can count in my 20's so that you don't have to.
I didn’t think pct was necessary on trt?
I cycle off trt every 6 months. My test is low but not gone so until it's completely wrecked I allow my natural test to come back. My docs idea and it works for me.
Doesn't work that way. What you're basically saying is that you cruise for 6 months at a time. You're not "supplementing" your natural test when using; you're crashing and replacing it.
The older you get, the less likely you'll recover.
How does it work , if its tanked doesnt that just mean your living only half as good as you would be under trt.
It isn't.
I hear you homie but these are the same things that I grew up with 10 years ago. It ain't that much different. FR request me and I'll hit you with that big bro, been there done that info that you need to be successful and safe.
Honestly 200mg/week of test-c is already higher than whats considered “Trt dose”. You might be able to get away with that but 450 mg/week is definitely excesive over longer period of time. Unfortunately I dont think we have conlusive data what damage high doses of test for prolonged peroid of time is doing to your body but keep in mind that “psychological” gains from testosterone have diminished returns even after your 200 mg dose so if you arent interested in making crazy gains in gym you might do a lot of harm for next to zero benefits.
My doctor has told me that 200mg/weekly is usually fine for 99% of her men coming in. She says if you’re going to spend the money on and work on going the TrT route you might as well maximize the potential. Free T at 291 and total at 1299. On a 200mg/weekly schedule
My question is how long could you potentially run elevated testosterone without negative side effects and has anybody implemented tren on top of trt?
I’m not looking to compete, but I’m wanting to look good as well as out perform at work as I’m at a disadvantage due to my injuries.
I’m not worried about kids anymore. Got that base covered.
If your doctor says its fine i dont see the reason you dont keep it up, since you are under her supervision. Dont underestimate the power of your current levels of testosterone, keep in mind that you have diminished return with it so doubling the dose might not give you double the gains while the chance of side effects creeps on. As i previously said, i dont think we have data for your question so you will have to try yourself, monitor it and then adjust the dose. Also, since you mentioned injuries… keep it mind that testosterone is not your cure for everything, if your injury is joint/tendon/ligament related, increase from 200 to 450 will not make it better. Whatever you choose to do make sure you are careful and report back here once in a while, i am genuinely curious. Cheers!
I plan on making a pretty good thread about it!
About using AAS as an accelerator to traumatic injury.
You’re already in the realm of negative effects at 1300 trough levels running 200mg/wk. There isn’t a medically/scientific study-backed answer to your question. It’s a subjective and completely personal risk management situation. You’re already redlining the engine at 200/wk with the levels you stated. But are dead set on this answer your doctor gave you that “you’re healthy.” I can go ask 5 different doctors the same question and get 5 different answers. People usually pick the doctor’s answer that’s in line with what they want to hear.
Run the test at 450…run the tren for all I care. You shouldn’t, but you’re a grown adult and can make your own decisions. Just make sure you run all the necessary bloodwork and tests to ensure your health over the long term.
I hear that, if labs indicate any negative affects I’ll for sure taper down my script. I really was just asking if anyone has done what I mentioned in my post, and if so what they experience.
I’m aware of the risk. I’m not asking for “should I do this” I’m asking if anyone has done it.
As stated I only ran 450mg/week for 10 weeks before returning to my trt dosage.
Let's assume your doctor knows what she's doing and what you're telling us is truthful...
Between your two statements above, what you're really asking is, "As a rule of thumb, how long can I get away with a blast before I should stop because I don't want to get bloodwork independently from my "doctor".
SeeOhShow eloquently pointed out that you're already pushing it. You will start having more negative effects almost immediately whether you see them or not.
We are all different. at least get bloods at 6 weeks and again at the end. You'll want to make sure you have enough time to recover before your next doctor visit.
POINT TO PONDER
There's your answer right there. You're already maxed out. You've got more T than most your age and younger. Focus on diet and exercise.
Oh I agree on being maximized on trt.
I’m just looking into what guys on trt who chose to blast every now and then do, and what they have to say about it
Oh we’ve all ran stuff on top of trt doses. Hell majority of us who “blast and cruise” are doing just that. We’re older, on legit trt, and then have fun blasts in between. Sounds like you just wanna join that club of doing trt with it bridging the gaps between blasts. How often you blast, for how long, and what compounds you do it with are totally up to you and based on your own personal goals. Tren is intense, so I don’t know if I’d jump straight to that. Plenty of other fun compounds out there that are safer
I appreciate the feedback man. What kind of compounds and experiments have you tried personally?
TRT is kind of a life time thing. It can be life changing but no one is running 450 mg/wk as that kind of TRT for life. Dealing with side effects and constant monitoring/adjusting, and for what: are you competing?
If you want to blast a cycle. Go for it. But remember think about TRT/usual test levels every once in a while. Imo. Not judging.
Oh I wasn’t considering running 450 for life.
I just ran it for 10 weeks now I’m back at 200mg weekly.
As of right now I’m having labs done every 4-6 months as to stay on top of bloodwork. Everything look perfectly normal at 9 weeks of 450/weekly.
If you aren’t actively training other than the physical activity you get from your job, blasting gear probably isn’t a good decision for you at the moment. What are your goals? How is your diet? Have you trained diligently in the past or up until this point? A lot of risks involved with this lifestyle, and until you can really dedicate yourself to full commitment, it’s not worth it. Maximize yourself and what you can achieve on your TRT dosage, you’re only 30 bro, that’s young. Definitely forget about any ambitions you have fucking with Tren, I know it’s become a popular choice, especially with younger guys, but that shit can fuck your life up quickly.
I appreciate that feedback dude.
I’ve been in the gym as much as possible since I was a kid.
Everyday during my 7 days off I’m at the gym and a few times here and there while I’m at work. If I can’t hit the gym I’m swinging hammers and picking up iron and implement workouts doing that.
I can assure you it’s as or more strenuous than spending 2 hours in the gym.
As for my diet, I’m not following and plan or tracking my micros right now but I make it a point to get my 215 grams of protein in a day.
My main question is if anyone has run 400-450mg of test for extended periods of time and what was their results/side effects. From what I researched low dose of tren (200mg/week) can get some results with minor to no side effects for most people. But I haven’t read anything on if someone has done it on Trt and how that worked for them.
Everyone is different, compounds become subjective to the user. Tren is a wild card, some ppl can handle it at high dosage, some ppl get thrashed off 100mg. Some ppl can handle short esters, some ppl can’t, same with long esters. Nobody knows what sides will come, same with test. If you’re set on 450 test, stick to it for a bit and see how you do. Definitely take precautions and have the correct ancillaries on hand.
Thanks man I really appreciate it.
I do have aromasin on hand in case I start noticing any estrogen sides.
I wouldn't wait until you see sides to use AI. Just take it properly during your cycle. Experiment with your dose depending on the gear you're taking and then get bloods. Most guys I know can use 12.5 mg Aromasin post injection 2x per week if you're splitting your test dost to stabilize your blood levels. If you wait and you get esto side affects then you'll probably have to take nolva to get it under control which isn't ideal. Test levels and estro are a fine balance. Don't guess bro. Start at a low dose and take bloods after 4 weeks. Otherwise you could crash you're estro with too much AI or have way too much and get gyno and a hormonal imbalance which is no bueno. Guessing is a rookie move and we're all here to prevent you from making the same mistakes we all did.