Low dose nandrolone
Im 47 and just got on TRT 3 months ago at a dose of 200mg test cyp a week. 2IU a day of Omnitrope and for the past 8 weeks i felt like playing around a bit with nandrolone.
I started out for the first 4 weeks at 100mg of nandrolone just for joint soreness. Than you know how it goes. Im at 200mg of nandrolone deconate a week. If i told you the strength gains and results you wouldnt believe me but thats not why im here.
My TRT program is 20 weeks on with 4 weeks off for cleanse for life. Cleanse time coming in about 6-7 weeks. So i obviously the trt and the expensive omnitrope is lifelong commitment for me. I want to Continue using nandrolone with it. At a ratio of 1:1 with the test. ITS been years since i have done heavy doses and dont intend to go back. With 200 test and 200 nandrolone, DO i cycle this with the equation Time on equals time off? So 12 week cycle and then take 12 weeks off and start again? OR with such a low dose can i do it more frequently? OR dose it even need to be cycled? Remeber now, even when i stop taking the nandrolone, i will still be on the test.
Thanks and sorry if i was all over the place
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As has been said you don’t come off trt, that just a good way to feel like shit again.
Every trt doc I have heard said an2:1 ratio is how to run Deca. So 100 Deca would be good for you. Don’t want Deca dick.
No way in hell is any legitimate TRT doc subscribing or discussing Deca for TRT unless they had HIV/AIDS as well. Who wants to increase their T levels to recover lost vigor only to lose their libido and suffer ED?
Lol. Smells like bs bro science being spewed.
Plenty of legitimate trt clinic drs Rx Deca for joint pain. That’s why compounding pharmacies have it and make it. Mine didn’t increase my test just added the Deca in.
Oh and many also Rx anavar too.
There's no such thing as a legitimate "TRT clinic". All those "men's health" clinics are pure profit motive operations willing to sell you whatever cocktail you are willing to pay for. Unless you're going to an endo doc, you're not seeing a "legitimate TRT doc".
h, I didn’t know we were in the presence of the
Arbitrator of what is and isn’t a legitimate medical establishment. Lol
I go to an endo and my trt clinic dr knows way more than she does about trt. She wouldn’t even start treating me when my hematocrit was 51. Then when I asked if she would take over, she wanted me to stop to get rechecked if I would start making high test than before because I had lost some weight.
Why is this? Because like most endos treat diabetes and thyroid where the money is.
I live in a large metropolitan area with the usually number one ranked hospital system in the county and many times the world. Guess what, can’t find anyone who knows trt from endo to Urologist. I mean if 200 mg once a month is good for you. Ok.
Wait, you’re telling me that private clinics are trying to make a profit?! I would have never thought a business would try that. You might not want to use a Concierge doctor practice where you can get appointments the day you call and have 27/7 access to a dr. I hear they want to turn a profit.
Will some clinics give you what ever you ask for? Sure they will. Wanna pay $500 for some anavar? Have at it. Will they try to sell you over price supplements? Yep. Do some charge $250 a vial of test? Yep. The old saying, Caveat Emptor, buyer beware. But to say there are not Legitimate clinics is just plain bs.
And if it wasn’t for these clinics, 90% of the guys being treated would still be feeling like shit.
Greg is knowledgeable and a more than fair moderator, the thumbs down was for your petulance. I’m also calling BS on you having an endo and a TRT clinic. I could be wrong, but I’m doubtful there’s an endocrinologist involved in your treatment. I’m not going to spoon feed you the long list of variables, but you would’ve mentioned your thyroid, HPTA axis, and a few other variables which you did not.
Lol. My thyroid that’s been treated for 20+ years with levothyroxine by my endo.
Clinic is in Tampa Fla.
Not having endo. Strike 1
Not having a clinic. Strike 2
No thyroid knowledge. strike 3.
And I have no idea why you brought up him being a fair moderator. Nothing we are discussing has anything to do with him being a moderator. I would hope that he can be in discussions and be fair or he shouldn’t be one. Been on boards like that before and they usually go to shit when the have mods that use their power when they have disagreements.
Strikeout for me then. Hope everything works out for you bud. I’ll return your thumbs down. Childish behavior.
And 90% will live longer lives.
I live in a metropolitan area with the number one endo docs nationally. I've shared an endo doc with my trans-male son who is one of the top docs nationally. I've had plenty of interesting conversations with him on process and the science. There are still a lot of unknowns and "experimentations". He's one of the first to try sub-Q injections. The hospitals around me are teaching hospitals. Some of the best nationally. I've had a half dozen endo docs through the years. Not a one would suggest adding deca or creating a stack.
What snark. even a hospital, the ones I spoke of even, are nothing more than medical malls. The difference between them and your "clinics" is they don't have docs willing to diagnose you with glaucoma after filling out a questioner so you can go next store and buy pot.
I don't have an issue with you going to a clinic. I have issue with you insinuating that a reputable doctor would prescribe Deca for TRT.
You're not the first on here that went to an endo doc and hoped they'd get a script really quick so they can be "legal".
I've been through the process, it's arduous. They start you off slow and low, wait months to draw bloods, readjust, wait again... It's especially frustrating when you've done cycles and know exactly what you need. It took about a year and a half to dial me in at 50mg every 4 days. So I get it, you heard 200 and said, "I'm outa here." Then went across the street to the "gray area" of town. Say the right things, (and they'll teach you how) and you'll get a script for just about anything.
Did you ask them to add Deca? I doubt most know anything about it since it hasn’t been marketed in the USA for over 20 years and can only be found through compounding pharmacies. When I mentioned nadralone my Endo had no idea what it was. She had no idea that it’s great for producing synovial fluid in joints and relieving pain. It’s amazing, since starting Deca I have had to have zero joint injections. I like drs who treat symptoms not numbers. Now, she’s an awesome dr that just doesn’t know about trt. She also has me on meds that are not approved for my condition so she must not be legit too? That’s a joke question.
This state has had medical pot for a while and I know multiple people who got their Rx from their regular doc --♂️
Now I do have an issue with the cookie cutter clinics that start everyone off at 200 a week and have them taking clomid and an AI. Or want to charge a monthly fee. Fuck that. My clinic cost should be under $250 this year, not $2k+.
No gray area just a dr who deals with it all the time. And that didn’t teach me what to say, nor will they Rx Deca when you first start
Like everything you have to do your research before you go or buy. And I did that before choosing my clinic.
We can agree to disagree and still be friends.
Because of the liberal attitude, highly educated methodology, the nationally renowned endo doc who treated my son had. It allowed me to have conversations about steroids and stacks and HGH, peptides, sub-Q injections and a slew of other topics I was curious about, and he was happy to talk about all of them and volunteered interesting factoids as well. He was like a living ChatGPT years before the AI was born.
Deca risk/reward benefits were a no go. (as were most all steroids; we're not talking esters)
I suspect there are better medical options for your joints.
If you're a hammer everything is a nail. The same with these clinics. They're about as much about "men's health" as "Planned parenthood" is about planning to be a parent.
Interesting. Since I haven’t heard of any better non surgical medical options from any orthopedic dr including one’s name you hear on ESPN from time to time and another who is the local nfl teams’s dr.
But my shoulder slap tears have healed them selves since starting Deca as have all the other rotator cuff minor tears. Last MRI report stated that it looked like the one slap tear had been surgically repaired.
My argument in this discussion isn't whether or not Deca works as your antidotal experience suggests. I'm saying that it's not going to be prescribed by any endo TRT doc, and certainly not paid for by any insurance company because what you're claiming to use it for falls outside the medical reasons for the drug as presented to the FDA.
I’m using two off label use drugs right now that are not fda approved as presented yet are being paid for by insurance.
You have no idea if any endos already are or will be in the future. Absolutes never work.
And it’s not just me, there are postings all over the internets about therapeutic nandrolone users and joint pain relief.
Wait 3 off label Rxs all covered by insurance.
If a drug is approved by the FDA for the treatment of muscle wasting. The insurance company will only approve it for that purpose. They are not going to approve it because it may improve joint health based on antidotal studies. Unless the makers of the drug want to pay for new studies and go through review process with the FDA for approval for joint health. Unless there's a strong market to justify that -it won't happen.
This does not refute your claim it may work
This does not refute your ability to get it prescribed to you.
I'm refuting your endo doc claim. Endo doc's don't care about your joints as part of a TRT regimen.
(Clomid is a medication that's FDA approved to treat infertility in women. It is also prescribed to men with fertility issues by doctors who have studied its effects on men. It is not FDA approved for men. Historically, Insurance companies would not pay for men to get clomid. Today, with so much data behind its use by men, some insurance companies will pay because of the overwhelming support from doctors.) Deca does not have the amount of case studies as clomid.
What you stated above is easily proven as false, Insurance companies pay everyday for off label use of prescriptions, that's when it falls outside the medical reasons for the drug as presented to the FDA. One in five scripts written today is for an off label medication and paid for by insurance. Is every single one paid for by insurance, no, they don't want to pay for anything, they're in business to make a profit. But you can still buy it if denied by your insurance..
Will they pay for nandrolone, don't know nor do I care as it's not expensive.
As for the endo claim neither you nor I know what every endo in the USA is prescribing or isn't.
In the end it doesn't matter as there are plenty of other board certified Drs who are prescribing it.
I've used clomid to demonstrate that I know there are exceptions to the rule. But those exceptions don't come easy. Nothing I said about the FDA process is false.
Here's your claim:
Every TRT Doc?? Joints have nothing to do with TRT. Why would ANY TRT doc discuss treatment for joint soreness? That's where I called you out.
Every Men's Health clinic doc, every steroid cycle doc on YouTube perhaps. But not a true endo TRT doc.
It's bad enough that the OP is using "TRT" for his self-prescribed cruise.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20690845/#:~:text=Immobilization%20provi....
Sounds like you need a new MRI guy as well. Any and all drugs that are anti inflammatory or act as such will slow the healing process, at the cellular level. Maybe it wasn’t the drugs? Maybe your tear just healed. Divine intervention if you believe in such things.
Nah, that study is about localized nandrolone not systemic. The mri was reviewed by two radiologist and two orthos looked at it because I asked about the notes at my appt and both agreed with the radiologists.
“An earlier 2010 study by Papaspiliopoulos et al. (32) examined 48 male rabbits that underwent rotator cuff incision and reconstruction after stratification into groups based on local nandrolone administration and immobilization. In this study, local administration of nandrolone proved detrimental to wound healing however, systemic administration was not studied (32). Local administration of nandrolone may impair the healing of acute tendon injuries and the perceived benefits to retracted muscle may be outweighed by its effects on tendon healing (34).”
https://tau.amegroups.org/article/view/9544/html
I mean, it was amazing that after 6 and 3 years of shoulder issues and multiple injections to calm them down, 4 or so months after starting nandrolone one appeared surgically healed and the other has never been painful again.
Well bro, I don’t argue with people on here, I only offer an education opinion and I do learn new things often as the science changes with new research. I do wish you well I’m with what you’re doing and I hope the outcome is what you desire, but personally I would choose another avenue of treatment. Best wishes to you bro, I hope it all goes your way. I’ll even thumbs up ya so you can start tomorrow dead even.
Well, I’m not arguing with you about anything just pointing out that the study you posted is about localized nandrolone not systemic. Two very different treatments and the article talks about another systemic study.
Start tomorrow dead even at what?
Have a nice rest of your evening bro, I hope everything works out well for you.
4 week cleanse on TRT. That is a new one.
Find a new clinic. You don't take breaks on trt.
Dont need to my Friend. I can get whatever i want from them. They said i can get year round supplies if i want but they recommended it would be wise to always to a 4 week cleanse. Just in case for whatever reason i wanted to go back all natural. But im not sure i want to go natural anymore. i dont plan on having kids at this age. For what other reason would their be? Is that the only reason the recommended cleanse? You year round?
You only come off if your trying to have kids and even then you don't fully come off. Your clinic sounds like a bunch of idiots. If you value your health, find a new doc.
ok thanks for the input man. They could be idiots. Who knows. I really dont care whether i live or die to be honest. So can you give me some input on the nandrolone cycles with my doses. I would aapreciate it ole buddy
Well that’s depressing.
Lots of benefits for nandrolone, but it’s really about dosages and length of usage. If you’re looking for strictly joint relief long term, you’d be considering a clinical dosage, think more along the lines of 50-75mg a week. You won’t experience anabolism, but I’d still get certain cardiac parameters checked, LVH could still be a concern. There’s no such thing as a free lunch with this stuff. And start caring whether you live or die. We all die, we don’t know if there’s cheesesteaks in the afterlife. I like cheesesteaks.
and cheese cake
Dear god yes. The ones with the strawberries in syrup on top, or the chocolate chip one… that’s going to be in my next cheat meal.
ha thats great stuff man. Yeah kinda ventured over that fine line of joint relief. I upped it to 200mg and thats all i need. I feel amazing strength wise and overall. Take this stuff 12 weeks on and 12 weeks off and repeat? OR with such low dose do i need to be cycled off that long ?
First time I've heard of that type of trt before. So the thing about nandrolone is it has a very long half life. Some say 20 days and others say 10 days, but regardless, nandrolone's metabolites can stay in the system for up to a year or so but you can take that for what it's worth. Like testosterone, nandrolone will decrease HDL cholesterol somewhat. If 200mg is working for you then keep it at that dose. I still haven't figured out how it soothes the joints. Maybe it increases joint lubricating fluids.
thanks a bunch for the knowledge. As for the trt, protocol. The hgh and nandrolone is not part of it. The nandrolone i get from another source. The omnitrope i get from the clinic but thats not part of their trt. Nobody else will prescribe legit hghso i will stay with this clinic. AGAIN THANKS A ton
Right but I was just referring to the trt break that you mentioned, 20 weeks on and 4 weeks off. And you're welcome
WEll i wasnt looking forward to that. Ill just have them send me 6 more months worth test. F...k it.
Depends, if you’re looking for anabolism I’d up the dosage to 250-300mg a week for 16-20 weeks. Followed by equal or 1.5 the time off. Therapeutic dosages are as I stated. Length would be determined on how your body responds to long term usage of the medication. It’ll basically be the same protocol as what they do for old women with osteoporosis. They do it for years, but they’re monitored by a physician.
Thank you. Glad i found you guys. I will have more questions through the years. Also, As so long as i obviously dont plan on having children at my age ever, Just ditvh the 4 week cleanse and stay on trt?
If you’re on a prescribed regimen for testosterone replacement, to bring your low levels into a healthy range, why would you need a break if all your markers on your blood test are within range? Proper hormone levels are necessary for important bodily functions including cardiac health. If you had a problem with your thyroid would you take 4 weeks off for a refresher? I’ve never known a diabetic to take 4 weeks with no insulin for a refresher. Can’t say I’ve known anyone that took a refresher from a necessary medication. If you need it, you need it.
My natural levels are 500. Ever since I hit 40 years old I started falling apart. Started getting skinny fat. Muscle wasting, zero sex drive etc.350 bench down to 225. 3 different dr.s love giving the same old answer. You’re within normal range. 300-1000. That range is a bunch of garbage. I did my research. So yeah found a clinic to make me whole again. I hear what you are saying. You have to give the clinic some credit. Some guys think they want to start trt but then can’t take pinning once a week. So they have that option for cleansing and go back to normal. I for one enjoy pinning in a weird way. I used to do test and deca back in the day in higher doses. Iam in no way shape or form a big time veteran. So I figured cleansing was something that should be done. Now that you guys have schooled me, I’m gonna opt out for the 4 week cleanse supplies and tell them to just send me 2 more vials on top of the order to get 6 month supply and stay on year round. I appreciate your help. Last thing I want to be is the pain in the ass new guy. I’ll have a million more questions through this journey. Are any of you on trt. From my findings pretty much any lifter needs trt after 35 years old
Dont need to my Friend. I can get whatever i want from them. They said i can get year round supplies if i want but they recommended it would be wise to always to a 4 week cleanse. Just in case for whatever reason i wanted to go back all natural. But im not sure i want to go natural anymore. i dont plan on having kids at this age. For what other reason would their be? Is that the only reason the recommended cleanse? You year round?