+ 2 I go to the doc tomorrow....
Hello everyone, I decided to come off of TRT completely. Here’s the PCT I did, and the blood work done from 6/6/20. I’m 25 years old and did several cycles between 21 and 23. I then started TRT and I just don't like the idea of pinning for the rest of my life. My past history of cycling is switching test esters and only using EQ as the other compound that I have used. Dosages of test never over 750mg and EQ never over 600mg. I was on TRT for several months before coming off completely. I realize the HCG was probably too much but for my case and trying to come off completely is the reason why I prolonged the HCG use. Based off of the bloods the testosterone is obviously too low. However, the LH and FSH show some life as if they are trying to send signals I think? I don’t plan to get on TRT and will do another round of HCG if needed or Nolva/Clomid. I would like to see what several people on here think. I am looking for some feedback as I am only trying to get myself out of this mess. Dr/patient relationship is good and I can get what I need if that helps. If you need any more info or if I forgot any info please comment and I can edit the post. Due to the LH and FSH numbers showing some sort of signal, what should I do next to help raise my low T?
Last pin of test was 12/30/19
Started HCG on 1/8/20:
-1/8/20 at 1000iu
-1/10/20: 1000iu & took .25 mg adex
-1/12/20: 1000iu
-1/14/20: 1000iu & took .25 mg adex
plan going forward:
-1/16/20 (today): 750iu
-1/18/20: 750iu
-1/20/20: 750iu
-1/22/20: 750iu
-1/24/20: 500iu
-1/26/20: 500iu
-1/28/20: 500iu
-1/30/20: 500iu
-2/1/20: 500iu
-2/3/20: 500iu
end of HCG at 10,000iu total
wait 3 days and start nolva/clomid
nolva: 40/40/20/20
clomid: 150/100/50/50
End of PCT was mid-march.
Saw my Doc around mid-may and he said to wait a few more weeks to get bloods done. I realize I should have gotten them done then but he said to wait because the longer I wait the better we will be able to tell with how my axis has returned.
So after that appointment in mid-may I took vitamins, kept working out, cardio, etc. I felt pretty good and was very pleased with how I felt, looked, and how strong I still was.
mid-june is when I started noticing that I was more tired throughout the day, loss of appetite, irritable, all signs and symptoms of low T.
Got bloodwork done and it was low.
Bloods done 6/6/2020:
Testosterone, total,serum: 228.45 ng/dL
range: (123.06-813.86)
Estradiol,serum: <20
range: (male:20-75 pg/ml)
TSH: 1.455
range: (0.358-3.740)
T3: 0.82
range: (0.60-1.81 ng/mL)
T4: 1.260
range: (.760-1.460)
FSH: 3.0
range: (male 13-70): 1.4-18.1
LH: 3.95
range: (male 20-70): 1.50-9.30
Are these LH and FSH numbers anything significant? What would you do next if you were me according to these numbers? I am already scheduled for a follow up with the doc on 6/13 and will edit post then to update. I understand that some may think that my only option is TRT. As mentioned, I plan to stay off and talk with my doc about what I can do next. Just curious about these LH and FSH numbers and if they have any significance being low-normal (still gives me some sort of hope). If anyone knows of any research that has been done or have experience in this situation any feedback would be appreciated. All will be discussed with my doc and I will give an update on what was discussed. Just wanted to post the entire process that I have been through up to this point.
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The prob with starting hcg so soon is it keeps test sky high.
Thats OK of you let it drain right down, but you started pct straight away almost, after the hcg, so test still high, so theb pct was worth maybe 2 weeks max. Test would then start to drain, and 8n ypur case hadnt rebounded.
I think the lh fsh levels seem OK to give you a higher test level than you have now, if it is possible.
Just to note it takes 12 weeks to clear nolv. So your current bloods are timed well and would explain a dip as the serms disappear.
So then, that leaves you now to begin recovering...
That could take a long time, 6 months perhaps, if it is possible (the only way to know fully is to test the testes by stimulating with hcg when there is no exogenous test, and measuring response).
If you are feeling brave, you should work now on maximising natural test peoduction, and free test, and also on sensitising the body to test.
Thank you for replying. I'm really lucky to have the doc that I have. He said exactly what you did and that I'm at my "low" point right now as I start recovering now. We decided that right now we just give it time and I keep working out hard, etc. My workouts have been really good with really good pumps and my strength is good, so I'm pleased with that.
What do you mean by maximizing test and free rest production and sensitizing the body to test? By stimulating with hcg? If so, would you recommend starting the hcg now? He left it up to me and I can call his office and get a script of HCG with several refills if needed.
I remember bringing up HCG with my doc in our last discussion and he said something about the feedback loop and that the best thing to do right now is give it time and then check bloods again in 3-6 months and then go from there on HCG treatment I believe. I'm very curious as to what you mean by this and will give HCG a go if it will help my natural production.
Sure,
Maximise test production, and liberate more free test: https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/over-40-trt/considering-trt-at-lown...
In terms of sensitising the body... you can think of it in systemic terms:
1. Clear house, lots of water, lots of antioxidants, lots of proteins, vitamins (like D), minerals etc.
2. As few chemicals as possible, including meds/peds
3. Ensure you eat the right fats for cholesterol (for DHEA production) and Omega sources
Or in cellular terms:
4. Ensure an adequate supply of Leucine and vit D etc. (MPS), and maybe Phosphatidic acid (think of it as a fats version of leucine)
5. Ensure a small supply of MCT oil pre-perri workout, and fructose with a small supply of complex carb post workout (fuel) (berries and rice)
6. Ensure you have good levels of cellular regulators like sodium and potassium (regulation)
(mix of sensitising the body to make and then use the test) - but dont forget, most low test symptoms are low estro symptoms, so dhea and free test are good for improving estro levels too)
HCG should not be taken now unless you need a medical intervention or to test your testes ability to actually produce testo. Doc is correct.
So stick with his advice for sure. Sounds like a good one.
I am sorry for such a long post but everyone always asks for the details of previous cycles, etc. I would just like some input whether these LH and FSH numbers possibly mean that my test levels could improve over time?