Help with lab results/ adjusting my AI. Thanks in advance :)
Hey everyone,
Running a cycle (currently on week 4) of Test C 500mg/week (2 injections: Saturday and Tuesday) for a total of 10 weeks, and wanted to ask for some advice re: on cycle therapy and PCT, as well as where you all think my labs should be.
My current plan for PCT is Nolvadex 40/40/20/20, Clomiphene 80/80/40/40 starting 2 weeks after the final injection. I also have HCG. I’ve been told this isn’t really necessary for such a mild cycle, but if it makes me recover faster it sounds like a good idea to me.
I also have Aromasin to run on cycle. I began 12.5mg EOD begging week 2. Currently experiencing a little bilateral tenderness and maybe slight swell, maybe I'm imagining it- but I don't think so.
Brief back ground on me:
I’m a 26 year old white male with no medical history, no chronic conditions. No family history of heart disease, liver/kidney disease, diabetes, or blood clots. I do not drink any alcohol, or use any recreational drugs. I do take some “health supplements:” Multivitamin, Arginine/Ornithine both pre workout and before bed, fish oil (a fuck ton, as much as I can swallow), CoQ10, and 5g creatine/day.
I am actually just finishing medical school; so I know a thing or two about drug mechanisms, hormones, and physiology, but lack experience that some of you might have- especially regarding dosing. (If you want to bitch to me about the medical ethics of this, go ahead and type it up, print it out, and throw it away. I don’t really care.) Why am I doing this? Well, I don’t have a real reasonable answer here, and I know that. I don’t get to work out as much as I used to, med school is a real bitch like that, and I still want to make gains, not just maintain- which is what has happened over the last 3 years of school. I don’t want to look like a “relatively fit doctor who obviously lifts,” I want to be a monument to academic, medical, and physical strength. (You're supposed to laugh here..)
My stats:
Weight: 210 pounds
Height: 6 foot 0 inches
BMI: 17% (measured by DEXA scan- not BMI chart so its reliable- please fat shame me I know I deserve it)
Squat max: 455
Bench max: 315
Deadlift max: 455
Clean and Jerk max: 275
I usually train ~5 days per week alternating between uppers and lowers focusing on compound movements. There is some variability in this because I often do Olympic lifts on my “lowers”
Baseline Labs done 2 weeks before cycle:
CBC, CMP, LFTs, all WNL (within normal limits)
Kidney function: Cr slightly elevated at 1.4. I eat a ton of protein and work out a lot. this was still actually barely WNL technically, but a little elevated for what we like to see in medicine.
Testosterone (total): 874
Testosterone (free): 137
Labs done beginning week 3:
CBC, CMP, LFTs all WNL
Testosterone (total): 2408
Testosterone (free): 597.8
***Estrogen: 358.7 (normal range tops out at 190)
Labs done beginning week 4: Repeated estrogen and kidney function
Kidneys: Cr came down with aggressive hydration so I am not too worried here.
***Estrogen: 367.1
This estrogen value is worrisome to me. With 2 weeks on Aromasin 12.5 EOD I expected this to have come down. I have been experiencing a little nipple tenderness.
To combat this, I am now doing Aromasin 12.5 every day + Nolvadex 10mg every day to try to get my estrogen down, and shield any breast tissue from my high levels of estrogen- at least until I have estrogen tested again next week.
Moving forward:
I will have total estrogen and estradiol drawn this Friday (end of week 5). I now realize I should have had estradiol checked and not just estrogen all the way along (feel free to yell at me for this one, I deserve it). I will update this post with those labs as soon as they come in. (takes 3-5 days after having them drawn.)
My most pressing questions:
-Am I panicking unnecessarily by upping the AI and taking Nolvadex? Should I stop doing this? Should I continue doing this? Do I need to have letro on hand? My sex drive is currently/usually very high and I'd really like to keep it that way.
-What should be by goal range for my estrogen and my estradiol?
-How do you think I should run HCG? lots of conflicting information, where as the dosing schedule for nolva and clomid PCT seems pretty standard
-When should I have more labs drawn? both on cycle and PCT and after PCT?
Thanks you guys for any advice you may have, I greatly appreciate it. (Sorry for the long post, I wanted to be as thorough as possible.)
Edit:
End week 5 labs: e2=40 (within normal limits)
Total estrogen: down to 235 (range 60-190) from 367.
This is after running (dosage according to the label) 12.5 Ed for 1 week. Then I had some work stress going on, felt a little nipple tenderness and did 4 days of 25mg Ed 4 days prior to this blood draw.
Conclusion- my AI is underdosed. Probably 25-50% of the labeled dose. Trying to avoid taking too much AI and tanking my estrogen. Pissed about the incorrect dosing. Bought drugs on the internet and it turned out not to be reliable... who would have thought?
Source review to come.
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Hi Lift "sometimes"...lol. 15-20 minutes of compound lifts is just about what you have time for....so quit making excuses. Besides, exercise will help your mind when that med school crap starts getting ya down!!
Also, worry about the HCG later after your PCT. Clomid is ran at a different dose, too. Get a lipid profile after your PCT. Glad you got that Cr down with hydration. You'll want to keep that going, too. Post your BW when you get it...
Keep the nolva going at 10mg po qhs. And, yea, you need pharma products.
Hahahaha
Hey thanks for they comment,
You're right about the whole mental health part of lifting... would be lost in a world of anxiety without it.
Also right that anyone can make 20 min...
Also right about the inaccuracy of my username lmao. At the time I made this account like 7 years ago I was more of a "lift all day" while in undergrad. But then read just enough on here to decide I was too young. Very rare moment of good judgment for me hahaha. Now, I am def more of a lift sometimes. Was surprised I was even able to get into this account after all that time.
Re: HCG: I've decided to cut this cycle a bit short so probably no need for HCG this time, keeping it stored for later.
Re: Pharma grade support meds: I've put in an order on the top rated site on eroids. Their delivery time is not super fast- so that played a role in my decision to cut it short this time. I figure there's a chance my current support meds are totally fake so better safe than sorry. I have someone picking me up some Nolvadex from Mex. this week so at least I will have that and it be (fairly) reliable. I'll have a better idea of the quality of my current Aromasin when I get e2 and total E labs back tomorrow. At that point, I'll post a source review.
Re: BW- Does this mean body weight? When I get the next DEXA scan? If so, will do, no problem.
Re: Clomid dose- Thanks for letting me know, I'll do some more reading on this. If you feel like dropping your opinion as well feel free. Link on your profile says 100/100/50/50 and I've definitely seen this multiple places. So that is what I'll plan on for now.
Re: Nolva: Awesome 10 qhs is exactly what I'm doing. So I'm happy to be doing 1 thing right.
Re: Lipid profile- Should I get this done like the day I finish PCT? Or should I give it a few weeks after? I don't expect to see a huge dip in HDL or rise in LDL but would assume there would be some. All looked good at baseline. Just curious what your thoughts were about this.
Thanks again for your response, really appreciate it! Will update with total E and e2 (tomorrow hopefully)
BW is Bloodwork. I'd get the Lipid profile done about 2 months after PCT. It wouldn't hurt to include a Lipid profile with your post PCT BW, but you really want to stay on top of it probably about 2 times per year...
Where da fk you been mate!
Booom!
Been busy with new work, moving, taking care of sick parents...our AC in this new place is old and we got taken advantage of during the buy, so now we have to get a new one...same old rat race...I'm looking for a new maze....lol
RustyhookerIf you want to bitch to me about the medical ethics of this, go ahead and type it up, print it out, and throw it away
Ok....
X2
Rusty,
I was anticipating a lot of push back in the form of "youre going into medicine and you're obviously doing something that isn't great for your health." That is what I meant by that.
I've read a lot of your comments over the past few weeks and you really seem to know a lot- so if you'd like to throw in your 2 cents regarding medical ethics, I will take it into consideration. Would also love it if you have any advice regarding my other questions.
Best,
-liftallday
RustyhookerDfromphilly has ya right.
Hcg raises e2.
You been here 6 years.
Thanks
Your ai seems to be bunk. My estrogen on cycle is usually around 30-50
1 way for Hcg, you can do 2 injections per week of 250iu. End the Hcg 2 weeks prior to pct.
10 weeks is a little short, I’d go for 12. I don’t think you need another blood panel, should check your estrogen again though and get that in check.
Thank you for your comment. I was planning on just using the HCG towards the end and letting my guys vacation while on cycle, but thanks for this advice. I will give this more consideration/research.
I've had the same concern/thought regarding my AI. If you have a source you like, please feel free to PM me
Thanks again,
-liftallday
AnonI start my HCG the last 2 or 3 weeks of a cycle and keep running it those last 2 weeks after the last pin of long ester Test. I think it helps to run the HCG all the way up until the day PCT starts. Here is a great link on HCG protocols
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/hcg-101.-why...
Awesome, thanks so much for this link. Very much what I was looking for.
Thanks for you comment
AnonThe eroids forums are a goldmine of useful information.
He got total estrogens tested. Your 30-50 on cycle reading is just estradiol.
To the OP:
I think you made the right move to up your aromasin dose. Your bloods on Friday will confirm if you need to up it more or if it’s bunk as trenallday suggested. I also agree you don’t need another full panel. Just get estradiol AND total estrogen tested.
Normally we’d say just get estradiol tested, BUT... The problem is If you just test estradiol, you won’t know if/how much it’s down because you got total estrogen tested last time. So get total estrogen and estradiol tested so you have something to compare it to.
If your e2 is down but not down enough, then at least you know there’s some aromasin in there.
I’d also get pharma PCT meds and AI. And I know your PCT isn’t pharma because no pharma that I know of doses clomid at 40mg. It should be 50.
Ah I missed that part then, I’m gonna look back and see what my totals are
Thanks for your response,
I will have both total E and estradiol checked this Friday and update with results.
I'm not sure what "Pharma PCT meds and AI" means exactly. Pharmaceutical grade? Not sure what the best way to do that would be... I could try walking into a dr. office and explaining myself... not too sure how that would go.
What I have is dosed as follows:
Clomid: 35mg/mL
Nolvadex: 20mg/mL
Aromasin: 25mg/mL
I agree with your idea that these labs should give me some idea of if this AI is completely bunk, or underused, or what.
If you have a source you recommend for this stuff, please shoot me a PM and I will just get all new stuff. Don't really like the idea of playing guess and check with my dosing if its possible for me to avoid that.
Thanks again for your comment, very helpful
I’m ea he means pharmaceutical, a real, approved pharmaceutical company, like pfizer.
Estro is a guess and check one, I’ve done 5-6 labs on estro to see how much ai I need with x amount of testosterone. Now I know and don’t test nearly as often, when I do it’s always in range. We all convert differently so what I need, won’t be the amount you’ll have to use
by pharma grade, i mean what you'd get at a pharmacy. you still have to buy it like all of your other stuff, but you should get brands that would be sold in a pharmacy.
all of the top sources listed on this site have pharmacy grade AI's and SERMs. Shouldn't be hard to find a good one.
Just realized all of your support meds are liquid... yea you definitely need new stuff. don't trash them til you get new stuff, but get new stuff.
Ok good to know. Will order new support meds tonight and make sure they’re pharma grade. If I’m interpreting this correctly they should be tablets/oral pills of some sort. I’ve seen them from a buddy that picked them up from a pharmacy in Mexico. Would be quite a drive for me to do that so I’ll get it from one of the top sites on here. Thanks for the info. Literally a life saver.
No problem man good luck. And yea you want tablets for sure.
Oh and don’t take too much AI either. Crashed e2 sucks a dick. I feel best when my estradiol (e2) is between roughly 25-35, but everyone is a little different there.
AnonI like it at 50's lol it's more fun
Rustyhooker^^^^^^^exactly why you earned that tag. Boom!!
Thanks brother!