+ 1 PCT advice, success stories, help, etc.
What I have used in the past: Test Cyp, E, EQ, Deca (once, well over a year ago).
Have been on TRT for the past 8-9 months and was prescribed TRT at 200mg per week but only did 125mg a week at 24 and am now 25. I should have given it more time after my last PCT to try and recover. I know the mistake of running while I was young and feel like I could have done a lot worse and am thankful I didn't. I will not get back on even when things get hard while trying to make my recovery and am trying to gain as much evidence and documentation as possible to hopefully post this story here once I have recovered.
Rusty has pointed me in the right direction with looking into different PCT protocols as I am deciding to stop TRT and cycling completely and he has been a great help to me. This is no disrespect on the help he has given me but there are many PCT protocols etc. I just would like to see if any of you know or have had success with completely coming off clean and restoring to natural levels as good as possible.
I am understanding that this could take a good amount of time as well as several rounds of HCG & PCT meds.
I will be getting blood work, working with my doctor, etc and will post later to show my results and when or if I can restore my T levels. Plan to get bloods 4-6 weeks after PCT is complete, reassess and go from there.
I have 10,000iu of Pregnyl (up to 3 refills), nolvadex, and clomid on hand as well as adex. About to get pharma aromasin hopefully.
Last pin of TRT was 12/30/19. I know some of you will say I probably should have already started the HCG and others may say to wait until 10-14 days after last pin. I am more concerned with timing of everything more than anything else.
I was thinking about starting the HCG tomorrow (10 days since last pin) at 1,000iu EOD until I run out or doing 1,000iu EOD for 1 week then dropping to 500iu for two weeks (don't know if either one is better than the other here).
Nolva at 40/40/20/20 and Clomid at 100/100/50/50 starting at 2 weeks after last pin & will have more if needed.
Wait 4-6 weeks after PCT to check bloods. After completing PCT, I was thinking about taking DAA, Vitamin-D and Zinc, and my other every day vitamins as well.
I've read over many different protocols and many videos by credible sources that are saying different things. Some say to not even start the nolva/clomid until finishing the HCG which would put me at starting the nolva/clomid 3-4 weeks after last pin if I do that also. So that's definitely one question that I would appreciate some solid evidence on whether to start nolva/clomid during HCG or after HCG.
I've read over PowerPct, listened to the Anabolic Doc (Dr. O'Connor) talk in some videos, Nick Trigili, some of the pct layouts that Rusty has sent, etc. I understand that all will recommend different things as everyone is different. I would appreciate hearing what has worked for some of you or successes that you know of with restoring natural T levels or PCT. Any advice will be considered and no disrespect to anyone. I was young and dumb and now I'm in a completely different place trying to make my life right as my priorities have shifted. I am just trying to learn and do things right, thank you.
- Bookmark
- 1
- 0
Try this. I’m currently on 4th week of this and feel awesome, I have high hopes for it. I’ve been on for over 5 years and started cycling when I was 18.
I used Aromasin at 6.25mg E3D, same dose I used while in Test Cyp 200mg E6D.
I’m also running 6IU HGH daily which I believe is also helping A LOT.
I will follow up with bloods 1 month after I complete it.
PCT Plan
Week 1-3:
HCG-1000 IU eod
HMG-75 IU eod in days opposite to HCG
Aromasin 25 mg ed, with last meal of the day (adjust down as needed)
Boron 10mg daily
ZMA-3 caps/night
Week 4:
Boron 10mg daily
D-aspartic Acid-3,000 mg in the morning
Aromasin 25 mg ed, with last meal of the day (adjust down as needed)
ZMA-3 caps/night
Week 5:
Boron 10mg daily
D-aspartic Acid-3,000 mg in the morning
Aromasin 25 mg ed, with last meal of the day (adjust down as needed)
Toremifene 60mg-ed, at night
ZMA-3 caps/night
Week 6:
Boron 10mg daily
Aromasin 25 mg ed, with last meal of the day (adjust down as needed)
Toremifene 60mg-ed, at night
ZMA-3 caps/night
Week 7-16:
Boron 10mg daily
Toremifene 60mg-ed, at night
ZMA-3 caps/night
^a couple things. HCG has been shown to be quite effective at 500 IU, EOD for 3 weeks. it also has an effect for about a week, hence stopping that for a week prior to the SERM. take the Aromasin along with the HCG, as it will keep total E in control, and adjust it as needed. also, take it with supper, as some guys get drowsy from it, and it is best absorbed with a meal. also, take the Toremifene at night (with your ZMA) as it also makes guys tired and will help ya sleep. and take ZMA, as a deficiency of zinc or magneium can wreck your T levels…
we’re running Toremifene for 12 weeks, as it has been shown to work for that long, as well. and we run Aromasin for a week with Toremifene, to keep E in check while the SERM begins to work…
the D-aspartic Acid seems to help the testes recover as well, but should not be taken for longer than 2 weeks.
If you currently have estrogen related issues, then i would keep the HCG lower (in the 250 IU range), but if not, then i would not be afraid to bump it up…
^you might also wanna toss some vitamin D in there, as that tends to help keep T up and E under control.
depending on where you live and your diet, you might not be getting enough sunlight or D in your diet…
Try adding HMG with the HCG. HCG is powerful and you need dose it at least 2000 IU's eOD for a while. You might get good results!
I think you’re good to start the HCG. And this is just my opinion but I wouldn’t start the SERMs until the Day after the HCG run is up.
HCG sends a signal that mimics LH to hopefully wake your balls up and start making test again.
Nolva and clomid block e2 at receptors that tells your body to start making LH and FSH, which then tells ur balls to make test. (To put it simply, anyways)
The problem is, the body won’t make something it’s already getting (in this case, an LH signal). It’s the same reason your body stops producing test on cycle. So I wouldn’t take one med that’s sending an LH signal while taking another one that’s telling my body to make LH. The SERMS would be wasted in action. (Not wasted completely but not at all performing at their full potential)
So you’d want to use HCG to wake your balls up so they respond to the LH signal and make test on their own, then the SERMS to wake up the rest of your HPTA and have your body start making its own LH/FSH, now that your balls are working the way they should and responding to those signals.
I’m no expert in PCT, but I do know interactions, and I wouldn’t mix the HCG and SERMS at the same time in your situation.
Good luck. Rusty’s forum is great.
Does your doc know you’re doing this? Finding one that can oversee this would obviously be ideal.
PcushionGood job brother! HCG is only to provide or help “awaken” the leydig cells. The whole idea is to have them ready to go and not dormant when lh starts to pulse. Only one way to do that!
This is great feedback!
I do something similar:
3 weeks HCG 500iu daily (week 1 overlapped with last week of cycle)
4 weeks of nolva and clomid (starting day after last HCG pin, 2 weeks from last cycle pin) at 40/40/20/20 nolva and 200/100/50/50 clomid
Have been able to get back to baseline levels this way!
HCG is debated pretty highly still, but it works wonders for me and kicks my nuts into high gear from my experience.
Nice. That’s solid. Yea I’m a firm believer in keeping them separate when being used for PCT or restarting the HPTA.
I also don’t love high dose. Just asking for high e2 which is suppressive, on top of the HCG being suppressive at those doses... doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. Just like anything else we should use the minimum effective dose. If you need to go higher, then by all means, but I certainly wouldn’t start that way.
I appreciate your reply D! I originally was going to start HCG and then start SERMS after--thanks for clarifying! Knowing interactions is one if not the most important things about AAS knowledge and use! Rusty has a wealth of knowledge and pointed me in the right direction. My doctor does know that I am coming off completely.
I saved this by giardap and it helps as well with all of my questions.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/hcg-101.-why...
Nice. That’s a great article by giard. Really great. He’s a smart dude and so is rusty. Between the two you’re covered.
Are you doing this under a doc’s supervision? Just curious. Obviously it’s ideal but not everyone can find one that’s current or educated on this type of thing. It would be nice to find one tho. Even if you just told ur TRT or family doc like “I’m not asking you to condone or sign off on this, but I want to let you know what I’m doing so you’re aware”... something as simple as that might get them to at least check out ur bloods off the record and help you read them. Assuming you have a good relationship with them.
Obviously we’ll all help you figure out your bloods as well when the time comes
Yes sir, I am doing this under my doc's supervision. I'm actually very lucky that I have the doc that I have. He's working with me on all of this and actually runs AAS himself. So it's definitely not like going to a doc that has no clue about AAS and our relationship is different than most doc-patients because of that.
Do you have an opinion on HCG at 1,000iu EOD until I run out or doing 1,000iu EOD for 1 week then dropping to 500iu for two weeks?
I appreciate that a lot. I have everything written out and the dates of start/stopping/dosage splits etc so that I will have this fully documented and will hopefully have a successful recovery.
I’d go with option b. Or even only the first 2 injects at 1000 and then 500 til it runs out, but I don’t like high HCG doses. Others prefer it high. I’d rather you not spike your e2 if it’s avoidable because that alone can suppress you.
I’ve never tried to do what you’re doing tho. You may get an answer from someone that’s been directly in ur shoes.
Glad you have that doc. That’s priceless. I have a similar relationship with mine.