+ 24 **19-nor Prolactin/Deca-Tren Dick versus Testosterone - Part 3: Experiment + results**
Part 1: https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/19-nor-prolactindeca-t...
Part 2: https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/19-nor-prolactindeca-t...
19-nor Prolactin/Deca-Tren Dick versus Testosterone - Part 3: Experiment + results
For anyone interested in either the 19nors are wet/cause erectile dysfunction/raise prolactin debate. This is part 3, the experiment and results which prove the data gathered in part 2, but disprove the deca only theory.
Part 1 discussed the common interweb/broscience perception that 19nor's cause prolactin to rise.
Part 2 analysed much available scientific research and gave evidence that 19nor's do not directly increase prolactin. However on a testosterone+ 19nor cycle excess testosterone raises estrogen which in excess raises prolactin. However, more questions arose, such as the need for an experiment, specifically to show how an AAS using BB'er with supraphysiological levels of 19nor is affected from a prolactin perspective.
Experiment 1
Completely uncontrolled single self-case study.
Phase 1: Nandrolone Decanoate @ 1000mg to increase to 3000mg over subsequent phases
No estrogen control, no prolactin control.
Results:
Used 1000mg nandrolone as a starting point, due to the approx 5x TRT dose of test guesstimate for aromatisation. i.e. nandroone allegedly aromatises at ~20-25% the rate of test, therefore at 20%, a multiple of 5x TRT test dose, of nandrolone (5x200mg) could serve as a start point on a mg per mg basis.
week 1 - 5, greatly increased libido, increased strength, increased vascularity, from week 2 on increased size due to nutrient retention, erectile function phenomenal. Zero increases in BP, water retention, or cognitive issues.
Week 4-5, estrogen crashed, nandrolone did not aromatise at the rate needed to function. cognitive decline, sore joints in week 4, followed by depressive symptoms, ran completely dry, muscular soreness, joint pain etc. Notably, erectile function and libido still through the roof.
Experiment proves for subject that you cannot run a nandrolone only cycle, however if you do, erectile function is not affected when estrogen crashes.
Experiment 2
Phase 1: Nandrolone Decanoate @ 1000mg to increase to 3000mg over subsequent phases
TRT dose of test @ 200mg, lowering over time to settle at 150mg test, split 75mgx2 per week. HCG used to keep testes functional.
No estrogen control, no prolactin control.
Duration: PM me for details, suffice to say long enough to fully complete experiment across different doses.
Noteworthy... No so called wet sides, no BP issues, no cognitive issues. At times struggled to keep estrogen HIGH enough. Switched off test dose at one point and solely relied on HCG but estrogen crashed.
Bloods taken at end of experiment, showing prolactin very low.
Not quite as low as if you crashed prolactin with a DA, but on the deck. Discussed with doctor who feels that the pituitary is strongly suppressed due to duration of cycle. estrogen very low, test ok for full supply to create estrogens, prolactin very low and SHBG very low.
Erectile function perfect, libido perfect.
Results:
In the case of this case study:
Nandrolone does not increase prolactin.
Nandrolone of itself does not have wet sides.
Nandrolone of itself does not cause "deca dick" or any form of erectile dysfunction.
Low prolactin did not cause any form or erectile dysfunction.
Comparison:
When compared to a high test/19nor cycle, the results from a very low test 19nor cycle are completey opposing. As part of a high test cycle, estrogen increases and therefore prolactin creeps up too.
(will upload image soon of last high test high 19nor prolactin levels which were quite high to the point of inducing anorgasmia)
Conclusions:
We need to stop thinking in terms of single compounds and instead think in terms of multi-compound cycles, cascades of effects and not single actions, if we are to truly understand what we are talking about. In a high test cycle, testosterone displaced or in excess is the culprit of wet sides and sex hormone increases.
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So did you like the wet or dry gains better? As far as mass/strength
Wet for strength, definitely
Dry for mass
But, my days of wet gains are gone. The moobs will not abide!!!
Lmao good job at literally stealing everything I've posted basically and posting as your own. You didn't do any research. You've just copied my post from the research I did. Good job. But thats why you also couldn't explain half the stuff indepth
God. You pompous shit, your posts are literally peppered with footnotes from government studies. You were "literally stealing" my tax dollar funded studies.
Do you think that if someone used the same reference material to summarize in lay terms his take away that it might just sound like someone else's report using the same reference material?
Your reports sound like somethings I've read on T-Nation.
If you can show me plagiarized content via side by side posts I'll be glad to remove it from our site. eroids has a zero tolerance policy for plagiarism.
Negged for lies.
So for $13 a month everyone can get 17 inch arms like you. My man stick to hair loss articles. And lay off the stims. Not sure if you are on meth or Adderall but you look and ramble on like someone that is tweaking.
After seeing your website and IG I was expecting someone that was jacked and/or ripped.
Awesome great reply that has zero relevance to the issue at hand and trying to avoid the main topic at hand that the dude you keep defending has ripped off my post 100 percent every single point study and topic. Good job.
Prolactin, piturity, leptin, receptors, insulin, adipose tissue, cells, signalling, communicating, process..
Key words that people can google.
"BUMP"
I wonder how the bloods would read or what would happen in experiment #1 if 1mg finasteride was added daily to make the Deca more androgenic. This link kind of explains more in depth some of your findings too. Great work man. Thank you
https://www.reddit.com/r/PEDsR/comments/812n58/nandrolone_deca_dick_real...
Sorry buddy, but that thread is very much so wrong.
I would recommend you read all 3 articles I wrote to understand why.
Will do! Thanks for taking the time to work on them..
https://t.co/fWysCqrsbU
24min in the Anabolic doc slams deca only cycles
Sorry boss, just seeing this now.
Yeah Anabolic doc featured in some of my research too. He is a good lad. (no homo).
Would love to see him read this and do a little research to present on why exactly it is a load of nonsense.
It's funny, coz on paper it works. But the reality is compleeeeeetely different. The body just doesnt do what they say it does.
I only want to share my experience ...
I ve run before deca solo at 900 mg per week for ten weeks I would've run it longer but I run out of deca ,I was surprised buy the whole run especially the sex drive I had better mood for sex then with test tren !! gains where excellent no water nothing ,no use of ai caber prami nothing !! I only used 25 mg provi a day !
I have gotten this idea from some old school people ,they use deca dbol.deca winstrol ,test wasn't a mast ,
even Lee priest talks about cycles without test . this is from my experience in my body ..hope I've helped even a little stay safe brothers
I know many old timers and many of f them didn’t use test at all.Deca,dbol was the main cycles,and another drug we are not allowed to talk about.A few of the guys I know got fancy when parabolan hit but most did not.
yes sir I was skeptical at first as well ...until I tried my self ,the only thing that I will change in my next blast is add a small dose of test or small dose of dbol ed !!
The dbol will keep your estrogen from crashing,at least that’s how it was explained to me.
yes sir that's the purpose of it at a dose 10-20 mg spread through the day
I think I'd prefer a bit of test to dbol..... How long would the dbol be run for mate?
from my experience my estrogen hit rock bottom from week six and above ,so I wont see any problems running dbol for 8 weeks at such a low dose!! and I want to mention that no extra liver tax from use of ai or enything else !
I’m a test anavar guy.Works like a charm every time.I use to use tren but not any more.I like picking your brain though.Thanks for being open a truthful.It helps to have an open mind as well.This is not a cookie cutter game,and everyone responds differently.
Test prop +anavar is my favourite cycle. Simple and very affective
yes sir we do react different
as far as anavar goes its my new favorite oral,been experimenting a lot and my findings are shocking to say the least 
Well I am not speaking from experience but guys like Don Ross ran dbol the whole time on cycle.Never did test.I personally do not use deca at all.Used it once and that was enough.My dick didn’t work for six months.Well, not right anyway.I did regular pct and waited,I finally complained to my doc and he put me on dostinex and saved the day.
I think a cycle some of the old timers would use would be 400 to 600 deca a week and 20 to 40 mg of dbol a day.
Funny I had an old timer tell me test had too many side effects, which I found amusing because deca kills my dick and dbol sends my bp sky rocketing !
I have run 240mg anadrol with dbol pulses of 25mg, for about 6 months.
Pretty much zero change to my liver values. Barely moved the dial.
He is right!!!! ;-)
Why dont you take the challenge brother?! Why dont you try deca the way I suggest, and see how it goes?!
Deca is a more potent androgen that test, so it shouldn't cause you issues with the little general, unless test is throwing problems up!
Wanna take a chance and experiment?!
I’m actually trying that approach right now but with tren e rather than deca.So far fat loss has been unreal.Ive lost 30 lbs over all and according to submersion test I’ve gained 10 of muscle.The doses are pretty small as well.100 tes cyp and 200 tren e and 200 bold cyp every 6 days.Was on the cyp and test for 10 weeks befor I added the tren.I was doing 200 test and 300 bold cyp twice a week.When I added the tren and dropped the doses of the others the magic started to happen.At about the third week.
And what about the general?! All working ok?? (no homo)
Working properly so far.
Well........ if tren wont do it! I think you would be safe to try deca, as long as you have enough test to create enough estro and not enough to have too much estro, thats the magic range to prevent elevations in the bitsnpieces that cause ed.
Glad to see the tren run is going well. Good for you Man!
Thank you brother!I value your input.I may try deca again in the future.I know it is a much safer drug than tren.Tren has never cause me issues downstairs but wreaked havoc on my lipids and my mental state.That is the reason this run will be short.I will then go back to test cyp bold cyp,or maybe even try a deca run.I certainly pic you brain if I go that route!
Always here for you big man.
Im the same re: tren, exact same. I get anorgasmia though from the elevated prolactin. I love to crash my prolactin purposely when on cycle, lets you bust more nut, its a gift with the crazy tren hard-ons LOL
RustyhookerTren and deca are completely different chems.
Tren with low test is good thinking and simple until the tren gets sideways
I usually feel better with 1 to 1 ratio but trying a different approach this time so far so good.This will not be a long run on the tren.
RustyhookerTren is an odd one. Its like being at the circus but its all in your head. Lol!
Yes it is.Ive had tren run that I loved and some that made me ape shit crazy.If I stay focused and keep it short I usually do OK.I keep telling myself never again and then a damn promo pulls me back in.
Did anadrol and dbol give you BP issues at that dose? I have pulsed drol at 50mg and dbol at 20mg a day and within a few days my BP is sky high.
Iv never considered running deca during the summer due to the amount of bloat usually associated with it. Sounds like with a minimal test dose of 100-200 (enough to not crash estro) then bloat should be non existent. Might give this a go in mid/late summer.
No not really. Maybe a mild elevation but not much at all. The only times I have had issues with BP was with high water retention and with tren.
Yeh absolutely, v low test with deca = almost zero water retained. I wont say zero but not far off it. Very low test and dbol = almost no water retained at all. Same with drol. Certainly not comparable to a traditional cycle at least.
Deca solo = zero water so getting the TRT/replacement test dose right is key.
I'm ok on deca but dbol cripples me with heartburn...... definitely couldn't make it past 5weeks
I’m with you brother my bp would be in stroke zone in five weeks.The funny thing is I use to love it but then boom high bp and crippling head aches.
Thats fascinating.
10 weeks???
How in Christ's name did you keep estrogen up high enough?
Surely your joints were in pain? Creaky?
You werent using a trt dose or anything like that were you???
tbh from week six and above I felit kinda brain fog if you get my point ...a weird filing ..It cross my mind for low estrogen but since I didn't experienced any joint or sex drive issues I thought that's the way it works !!
now I know low test or low dbol dose ed for functioning properly !
I don't suppose by any miracle you have a copy of any bloods you might have taken during that cycle?!?! would be really valuable!
no sir unfortunately not ,it will be very helpful to have them ...many people maybe start to thing out of the box !!
Some day my man some day lol
Im seriously over this nonsence.
You are wrong.
What do you think nandrolone actually is? And how do you think our bodies metabolise it as?
Biosynthesis mate.
The body synthesises it as testosterone.
Every hormone starts with cholesterol.
During the process of nandrolone being activated it converts into multiple different hormones.
Progesterone being one of them this is certain.
All related receptors are signalled, remember progesterone, progestin, prolactin, are all estrogen.
So all estrogen receptors are responding to the signalling including androgen receptors etc.
The 20percent rate at which it is said to aromatise doesnt even need to be equated the fact is through the byosynthesis process the body has already started its responses.
There is actually two different types of progesterone receptors and they are capable off communicating.
One type is occupied at the sites by the cells and the other is roaming.
Nandrolone is "dna" altering and in that function is where it all begins.
It does have dramatic affect on leydig cells.
It is capable of shrinking the testicles.
It can and does cause a variety of conditions that cause vast side effects.
It does cause piturity conditions.
It does negativly effect the adrenal functions.
It does shut you down.
It does cause gyno and lactation.
Alot of the side effects are basically disruptions.
It maybe from adrenal fatiuge hypogonadism inflammation of the piturity etc the list goes on.
All caused by synthetic steroid administration.
Please do more research.
Please study on how the body synthesises nandrolone and how the process starts, how it converts, what it converts into and how it is then used.
Seriously mate im so over it.
This is a topic that has been done.
Every forum has done it.
You cant change not only fact but decades of actual real life experience.
Some people may get no sides some people might get them all.
The fact is you are wrong and you do not understand why.
Good luck on finding the answers.
Cholesterol converts into pregnenolone, pregnenolone converts into progesterone, progesterone converts in the leydig cells into androstendione.
We then have our testosterone creation this is the process in how nandrolone is activated once administered.
I’m a little bit confused by you info.Are you saying that deca,through biosynthesis,makes the lydeg cells make testosterone and that’s how it works?I think that’s what I read but it was a lot so I asking you to clarify.
My next question would be if that is what you are saying,why does it cause shut down?If the lydeg cells are making testosterone,technically one is not shut down.
I personally won’t touch deca because I like my dick to work ,but was certainly interested in the back and forth,and the bit about androstenedione working on th lydeg cells caught my attention.
Ok so why does deca not make your dick work?
No im saying nandrolone is a pro drug meaning it has to convert once administered into our system into 19nortestosterone.
No matter what in that process it does convert into progesterone along the way and it does bind to those receptors.
I have never disputed that some people wont get sides and some wont.
It does not alter the drug, structure and what it is.
Cholesterol into pregnenolone into progesterone into andro then into test.
Nothing else matters, the drug is what it is and cant be changed, im not confused between progesterone, progestogen progestin etc etc im not disagreeing with the affinity once active at around 22 percent.
Im stating that during the process of the drug metabolising " biosynthesis" it converts into actual progesterone and binds to receptors in that time.
Later down the track once that process has completed its the synthetic weaker binding pgr.
But everytime we administer it " inject" it has to go through the same biosynth process therefore metabolising into progesterone again and binding again.
I dont know how more simple i can be.
You cant alter the function or structure of a drug it is what it is.
Nah he isn't saying that, in fairness. The opposite in fact, he is saying it causes shutdown, which we all know. Another almost completely irrelevant point by way of addressing an entire study.
Basically, his post tries to bridge a gap from nandrolone to things like breast milk!
The bridge he tries to use is that nandrolone metabolites are progestins (which have a mere 20% binding affinity of progesterone) which he wrongly calls progesterone.... and that this relationship causes lactation... which it doesnt... no lactation without mammary gland you see...
Therefore we have to go back to estrogen, GH etc. which are part of the process that creates breast tissue development... however we now know through the research & experiment that this cannot happen due to a lack of aromatisation to estrogen - in fact, without test estrogen crashes!!!!! (breasts not possible!!!!) Only in the presence of excess testosterone can this happen or with things like excess growth hormone binding to the ERs's and creating enough IGF... which do act in ways Flash poorly tries to elucidate, but again are part of the breast development process, unlike nandrolone.
This is the crux of part of the study and experiment. Proven in the lit, proven in the experiment.
Where did i say that?
Eh duhhhhhh....