posted Wed, 02/06/2019 - 11:19
5621
Water retention
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What's up fellas, so im on my second week of test/npp, 100/150 eod, but my face and my neck are getting way too big, my face looks swolen from water, my neck as well, my diet is good, no dirty food, all clean but high carbs, i gained 8 pounds in the first week, but probably water i get big really fast tho
so my question is even tho my diet is clean and E2 is in control, does npp cause this much water retention regardless of diet and e2?
i didnt have this problem with test, only when i use npp
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I can go way low on the carbs with nan. I can recomp well, losing fat and gaining muscle mass. A few summers ago I ran nan E / test, 400 / 600 and was the dryest i have ever been. High protein and high fat works great.
UPDATE: started pinning prop 3 days ago im sweating like crazyyy everyday i wake up everyday and it feels like ive been taking showers during sleep
PcushionCheck your E2 again. Can’t say E2 is in check on week 2. The ball is just starting to roll at week 2.
Check your BP! A lot of the guys seem to have these issues with Decca and NPP. I personally have never experienced it; but we are all different!
Theres some great advice in here
Keep protein same and reduce carbs down to 50-100 mg max , cover the diference in calories with good fats
Up water i take more , 5 g vit c ed , dandelion root
The key is carb intake !! Thats why in 70s and 80s they all ate low carbs , cause nandrolone was the main compound
Respect
Dope
Pcushion+1 from me. And do +2 but if I could I would!
hey brother, 5g vitamin c right? what it does to you?
Respect
Sunamcaxa
Is great antioxidant and in doses more than 3g ed is work as mild diuretic
Oldschool trick
Respect
Dope
x2 +'s
I got through this cold and flu season without a sniffle using 3g every single day since september.
Didnt expect something less from you , you got tons of knowledge :-)
Respect
Dope
If you have checked and your estradiol levels are in range, from my experience the rest is diet. Every time I touch nandrolone, I have to be very careful with my food especially if you’re endomorph like me. I would drop carbs and monitor what happens.
And water retention will definitely get your blood pressure up, this needs to be monitored daily when on cycle and especially if on nandrolones
Does exactly the same to me mate - As soon as I start running it my face and chin swell up. Even Dbol doesn't do that. Just the nature of the drug I think, positive is every other muscle swells up too!
Imo you should check your e2 levels again and reduce the carbs, mate
Im 1000% sure my e2 is fine bro if not actually crashed im on .5mg adex eod for 100 test eod thats actually high
NPP and deca both blow me up and part of the reason I don't use them anymore because they wreak havoc with my BP due to the additional water gain. Just the nature of the beast with those drugs. It is a wet compound. Could reduce carbs somewhat due to spillover of carbs causing subq retention but not going to cure it. Take 10g vit c split throughout day and some dandelion root to help expel some of that water.
try a very low test e/c and deca run some time... (i think you ran dhb this way right?)
no water, no BP issues
Its a different beast altogether
Need to check bp, might explain the headaches ive been feeling recently, the problem i get really good results on npp for mass gain, i get big af on it but sad this water in my face
jayiskJust grow a big beard to cover the face bloat :-)
Thats been my trick too, keep facial hair at about an inch in length. Shaved it down a few days ago and instantly remembered why i keep it long. Face looks fat as fuck lol.
Hahaha Problem is with the face bloat also comes the strength and joint cushioning so its kinda worth it isn't it lol I get the same side dude.
Fuck yea its worth it! Thats why we keep doing it LOL. Even the wife was like uhh yea grow your beard back out fatass. I used to get BP issues from all the water but COQ10 has been helping a ton, no BP issues lately.
Oh Really? That's good for High BP is it - I must admit the odd time I've banged the test up a bit the headaches come in a little and I can feel its from that increasing a bit too much and when training heavy on the lower reps it really has an impact. I'm going to finally try that then pal - great tip! I often wonder how the pro's deal with it running such heavy cycles with 150mg + anadrol ED but I guess they must take proper BP lowering medication that you see on some of the bigger sources websites for sale ...
It seems to be working out fine for me, i forgot who recommended. Costco has the big bottles of 300mg COQ10 for cheap. Iv wondered that too, i cant imagine that feels good running all that shit with your heartbeat pounding in your head. Or like Larry Wheels where he starts bleeding from subsurface veins during heavy deadlifts, NUTS.
Lool working on it
tbh most of the times wile iam bulking I leave beard its convenient lol ... and hides the double chin
Works like a charm!
100%
jayiskwith the bonus of not having to shave your face...lol
yes sir !!
Try those natural diuretics I suggested. That should help a bit. Definitely check that BP, headaches is always of sign of high BP for me. Dropping some water should help with the BP and headaches. Nandrolone is great for fullness and mass but it really smooths me out with all the subq water.
I will try that bro and see how it works out, sad, its such a great drug
As long as estro is under control, might need to add a dht into cycle like mast or provi if still having issues to see if that helps with shedding some water. Back off on the simple carbs a bit also.
RustyhookerMast.....gotta love its water squeeze.
I will add mast prop at week 4 till week 10 end of cycle, the thing is i cant cut my carbs alot cause otherwise i wont get enough calories, usually just brown rice or basmati, also i usually run provi in every cycle, but this time i wont, cause im starting mast after 2 weeks anyways might be too much dht for me
NPP causes no water retention, test does.
Your estro isnt under control man.
It does bro very much, i used anadrol before, test enanthate even at higher dosage than this 100 eod prop, isnt high at all, i started using ai from 2nd day, e2 is perfectly fine if not too low, i can feel my joints dry because of it, but the moment i started taking npp i get blown very hard
Honestly bro it doesnt. Use it on its own for a while and see what it doesnt do. or use it with a TRT dose of test and see what it doesnt do. Anadrol has a low binding affinity btw, so test beats it every time, thats why anadrol is not good for musce (on a test cycle) but good for strength.
nandrolone doesnt aromatise much. But what it does do, is beat test to activating the androgen receptors, due to its higher binding affinity. this means test is left floating around to aromatise and this extra estrogen above your normal baseline will cause water retention. BP will float up too.
Tellin ya man; try a little trial with no test, (mind yourself though, no1 wants to crash their estro) and see what happens, you would be shocked!
I have spent the last 2 years testing and perfecting this.
I ran nand alone at multiple grams and it is eye opening what it doesnt do.
BUT, you do need some test, just not much above trt levels.
Re: estro - it takes a mere 12 hrs for prop to blow up water and BP.
But regardless, all that aside, you are on a cycle of short esters, which is the absolute worst for side effects profile. Would you consider changing to longer esters which are more anabolic and with less sides?
Sorry man but I have to disagree - Long estered cycles are way worse for sides. Compare a Tren ace/Test prop cycle to a Test E/tren E cycle and BP, water retention, gyno, tren sides such as lethargy/aggression/moodiness are way worse. Same with NPP vs Deca in place of the trenbolone - The long estered Deca is much harder to tolerate than NPP which feels like a walk in the park compared.
As long as the short esters are pinned everyday you never experience the hormonal fluctuations either...
We will have to agree to disagree then p! ;-P
My experience is the exact opposite to what you are saying. I've measured it too for myself (easy enough obviously). May be a case of we are all different etc. Tren is an easy one due to the severity of the sides for people to figure what works for them.
Re: hormonal fluctuations - Thats just not true man. prop is up and down in 24 hours. peak in 12 down in another 12 and so on. Thats a lot of fluctuation.
plot it and see what happens with steroidcalc when you put a daily shot of prop in versus a daily shot of enth, there is a serious difference. But most will do what a e3.5 day pinning schedule for enth/cyp well thats peaking in 12-18 hours or so and takes 3 days to drop to base. Thats a serious difference too for approx the same drop in terms of mg peak to trough.
Re: nandrolone, either ester... on its own there are no water/estro/bp/prolactin sides at all. its only when it is in a cycle (with mid to high test I suppose) that we see those sides. We shouldnt be blaming nano when it is the cycle that holds fault!
I might increase the ai dosage and see how it goes, my joints are dry but it might be because of accutane, im on low accutane dose 40mg day, helping me really well, this is my second run with nandrolone same results, last time i had to stop due to acne at week 6, I don't like long esters i tested that, with short esters i can recover really quick and incase something goes wrong i can just stop immideately like last time, no need to wait 2/3 weeks for pct if i was on deca, it just leaves my system quickly, thats why i dont wanna risk it
a lot of people recommand very low test just to keep my buddy below working, which is fine, but i expermented with 400 mg prop, i had 0 problems before
Either way big man, be careful. If it is the accutane drying them up, the ai wont help.
As press1 points out above some people just prefer the shorter esters.
Would you consider 1 other thing? (i dont mean to go on, its just with the accu and then increasing the ai......)
would you consider lowering your testo dose instead?
Yeh i have no problem decreasing test dose, as long as its enough for my libido to be up, will probably take 60mg eod instead of 100 and see how it goes bro
I respect that man.
Down the road... whatever.... if u fancy something different, (if you tolerate test e/c well that is)... try a trt dose of test with whatever ester you love
e.g. 150 mg of test e/c with whatever dose of NPP you love
It is, honestly, a completely different ballgame. No need for ai's, no bloat, no estro, no prolactin.
I have switched maybe 20 members here onto this and every one of them has literally fallen in love (no homo) with that type of cycle.
Oh and ther are more or less zero DHT sides too as the test isnt there in excess to convert. (not necessarily the case for someone who suffers from MPB or whatever, but still worth considering)
just a suggestion, you do your thing and I know you will sort the issues out
Best wishes for the rest of your cycle brosef.
Thank you bro, yes i will let u know how it goes for sure, i will keep my npp doses as it is and add mast prop this week, and start test e, and bridge it with prop 50 eod till enanthate kicks in and stop prop
God bless
I cant speak from experience with NPP, but you mentioned high carbs.. any higher than usual?
Recently increased?
With or without the recent increase in carbs, the addition of NPP (fast acting or not) you're still going to experience a higher level of nitrogen retention and glycogen storage. Thus the extra water weight. That's my educated guess. I bet if you dropped the carbs a bit the water might drop with it.
Yes i tend to increase calories on cycle, usually brown rice around 400g of carbs a day, but this is the second time im on npp, i get the same result huge face huge neck very noticable