+ 19 Prolactin, lets have a talk about it.
I have been seeing some posts about prolactin that I find concerning. so Id like to open a topic here so we can discuss it. i feel this is the best place for it because PCT AI section is largely ignored unless youre looking for adivce. Ive done my best to cover as much as could about this in the following post. if anything is inaccurate please correct me, but lets avoid things without discussing why we should or shouldnt do things. i think this is something that needs discussed because of the constant new users to this forum. we should dispel any bad info and help educate new people. Im always learning new things, even being corrected about things i thought i knew.
The effects of elevated prolactin impact the prostate, FSH, and LH levels, thyroid, energy, testes, fertility, pituitary function, vision, sleep, concentration, energy, pain receptors and reboot. I take caber, not just for the effects it has on gyno or possible lactation but it seems increasingly more difficult to reboot or have full healthy testes with elevated prolactin. My prostate always became swollen while on any nor 19 and the effects on my thyroid are negative. For some these sides can develop even without any prolactin related gyno or lactation. Simply keeping the estrogen under control will keep many of the most obvious prolactin sides under control but not the ones that may cause the most long term issues.
the effects of elevated prolactin on the thyroid can cause Hyperprolactinemia. Elevated prolactin has a direct effect on TSH levels, which can cause hypothyroidism. Also for those who tend to run it often the effects it has on the testes, fertility and bone mass can become problematic. I’ve read several articles for and against the use of anti-prolactin drugs and the ones that advocate against their use typically only address the issue of gyno symptoms, erectile dysfunction and fail to measure or address any other symptom or side effects of elevated prolactin. simply stating, unless you have gyno you should not use caber is a poor choice in my opinion, there are so many more sides from prolactin that are as bad if not worse than gyno or lactating. The idea that caber causes cardiac stress is debated topic, for us in the AAS community we don’t use it for the extremely long periods or doses that some associate with cardiac valve related issues. I feel that statement is inaccurate or completely false at best and here is a link to a medical study to dispel http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23824978
We do not run the doses or the length of time they do for Parkinson’s. These studies and other studies show little or NO effect at all on cardiac stress or cardiac valve disease. There have been many studies that say the same or show no effect at all. Many of the cardiac stress related issues that can occur while running a Nor 19 are and can be related to the rise in BP because of hydration, fluid retention, and hematocrit levels.
I should also point out that Tren and elevated prolactin levels is a hot topic among the AAS community as many studies have been done, but they have been done typically in the veterinarian sciences, so there is little science to support or disprove elevated prolactin while using tren, after reading many forums and using tren myself I will say it’s a controversial topic, i have experienced high prolactin on tren and I have not, but we must keep in mind that trenbolone isn’t made for human consumption at all, it was designed for bovine use, and there are many factors in why it may cause elevated prolactin, until there is a legit human study this issue will not be put to rest.
Controlling estrogen is primary in controlling prolactin levels. Estrogen is like rocket fuel for prolactin and any prolactin related issues will be exacerbated by high estrogen levels. This does not work for everyone, some even with controlled estrogen can still develop elevated prolactin and prolactin related sides. the effects of prolactin related to AAS use vary from one individual to another. one person may never develop elevated prolactin while another may running the same compound in lower doses, as with all AAS compounds the results and sides vary widely from one individual to another.
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absolutely great post fella! Thank you!
shiningstarthis is an awesome post/topic for discussion!! nice one bro very well put and informative and something we all who use 19nors etc, should be aware of, again awesome read thanks!!!
RustyhookerProlactin control. As stated med reports clearly show our use is miniscule in comparison to medical needs and sides are virtually nil.
Latey folks are citing med reports on lactation and prolactin control with vitamin b6. They're pushing 500mg as a broscience dose however, they never cite toxicity and sides. Above 300 has been demonstrated to cause permanent nerve damage.
Have you found or tested the female reports?
I could be wrong but I thought I read on here somewhere for the b6 you want the active form of it. And not the one that converts to the active form? I could be getting something else mixed up
RustyhookerBad part is any med site shows toxicity is permanent nerve damage. Caber has no shown negatives at bodybuilding doses
Dostinex dosing to treat parkinsons disease is bettween 5mg and 15mg and they run it continually for many years. This should put a better perspective on our dosing compared to "the studies" that demonstrate side effects.
RustyhookerPerfect. Just solidifying med reports vs juicers needs.
Good post brother, it seems you changed your mind and came back to the forums, nice +1
does a dopamine agonist lower prolactin, or just control some of the sides?
it lowers and blocks the excess production of prolactin at the pituitary. dopamine inhibits the production of prolactin and release of prolactin so using a dopamine agonist basically sends a signal to the anterior pituitary like it were dopamine and shuts off or diminishes prolactin release.
bigmurphA question about your first answer about the hcg i thought that hcg was a good idea to take especially after a tren cycle so this is not true because it raises the prolactin levels and estro levels causing more problems than actually helping i don't run nor 19 but a buddy of mine loves tren and runs hcg and clomid for pct if its not a good idea i would like to let him know because he swears hcg is the best thing to use for his pct after tren
no its still good to take as a bridge between the cycle and the PCT. i wouldnt suggest using it while on cycle as some do because of that. HCG as a pct bridge is effective at raising LH, FSH and stimulating the leydig cells to work so ita a great PCT kick starter to get the HPTA going. HCG and its effects on prolaction arent something i would be terribly concerned with as long as my estrogen and prolactin were controlled correctly prior and during use.
Mwag, have you done, or seen mid cycle bloods that show grossly elevated prolactin levels?
Any links to veterinary studies with tren / prolatin relationships?
another discussion we've gad here on eroids
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/prolactin-ind...
I posted my last prolactin levles, I was acutally lactating at this time, and my prolactin was below the normal bottom range of 4.0 mine was .9 it was due to a very high estgrogen count at the time which was 80pg/ml, and i was running deca at that time. i would deal with lactating every time i ran a nor 19 if my estrogen was high regardless of my prolactin levels being low. so i really need to keep them in check
ive had my own bloods done, i actually think i posted them on here. as for the studies, i have read a few but one of the issues i have with them is that those studies are done on bovine and the the rate which a cow makes prolactin or develops estrogen is not addressed when comparing to humans, so i think those studies cant really apply to human as the bio mechanism even though theyre similar function at different rates and convert differently. i would also agree that prolactin induced gyno is another sort of myth. i would link gyno more to the typically elevated levels of estrogen with the prolaction rather than the prolactin causing it. as its no secret that along with elevated prolactin and most often prolaction sides are present along with elevated estrogen. so i would agree it is not the prolactin causing gyno. ive personally never had gyno while running any 19nor as i have had high prolactin even with controlled estrogen. im going to try to find some of my old bloods to post.
good stuff mwagner, great post and great to see you active again..........boooom.
Good stuff right there, thanks for the write up since there's a lot of confusion out there about this
Nice write up.
RustyhookerExcellent! Back to old school eroids
i miss what it was like when i first got here, there was some issues, but over all the information that was being doled out was incredible and very educational. i see stuff now liike "dont do that, dont take that, or i wouldnt" but never an explanation why and the pharmacology behind the compounds isnt spoken of much anymore either. we will get back to that stuff. this place always has its cycles LOL
RustyhookerFinding an op that wants to learn is rare. I'll test out a newb with very basic reply and ask them to click my avatar. 1 in 100 maybe.
Me have my note pad ready, or sic reporting for learning sir
rusty
RustyhookerThats why you do so well. I love seeing good forums like this.
Me to rusty, and thanks
I'm assuming that most of the posters are just tired of reiteration after reiteration of the same spiel, only to have it fall on deaf ears time and time again. There could also be some aspect of posters expecting their peers to have an understanding of the pharmacology behind it already.
But, to address the original post, this is great info, and I hope you continue posting more of these "back to basics" stuff. Definitely a superb read for anyone, even the advanced members on here.
we need stickies in the PCT AI/SARM section badly, it would alleviate a great deal of the repeat posts. I do agree it becomes a broken record of repeat question and answers, and those who know their stuff do get tired of constantly re-posting the same answers to the same questions.
Nice read..thx
AnonRight on bro and some good info there.
also ive been doing some more reading and even after the compound clears the metabolites related to deca 19-norandrosterone (NA) and 19-noretiochoanolone (NE) can effect prolaction levels for long periods of time after the use of the compound has ended.
ive also found many AAS users, use HCG during or after cycle for PCT kick start:
HCG, which is similar in structure to LH, did lead to an increase in the nandrolone metabolite NA
HCG is also known to stimulate testosterone synthesis in the body and is often used in PCT or during harsh cycles. HCG is known to stimulate the aromatization in the testes leading to an increase in estrogen which can increase the prolactin and prolactin related sides