+ 4 Time To learn and discuss
Ok here is the scenario.. lets say a 30 year old male been training for 10 years and has ran a several cycles here is the compounds he has run
test e
sust
prop
decca
npp
tren
equipoise
dbol.
now Mr jones is 6feet tall 225 pounds BF% is 10% he is wanting to run a 16 week bulk cycle and he isn't afraid to put on a little fat with it. he also would like to gain a sold 25 pounds.. your goal is to take the compounds listed and make him a cycle limit it to only 3 compounds and list what his calorie intake should be. then based on what compounds you choose im going to throw u a curve ball and throw side effects at you then you must tell me how to take care of them. LETS EDUCATE SOME PEOPLE TODAY.( this is fun nobody will be bashing anyone in here if they do they will be excused from my thread)
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GiveBloodPlayHockeyQuestion 1:what do you feel the best exercise is for explosiveness ? I was told Clean and press are one of the top excersies we can do for our whole body ! Being a hockey player and ref I'm constantly skating for long periods of time and need my first stride to be powerful ! What would you recommend ?
Question 2: I was informed but another person leg extensions are horrible for your knees and complety goes against how our knees are suppose to work , only adding stress to acl and mencisus ! Have you had any issues with these or is there another excercise you add instead of leg extensions ? I have a bad knee myself so I'm looking for different ideas on how to incorporate new workouts
GiveBloodPlayHockeywhen using aromasin after my first dose i get dry flaking skin on my eyebrows.....common issue here ?
Aromasin can exacerbate a skin reaction called seborrheic dermatitis. Around the eyebrows, sides of the nose and top of the lips typically. Sounds similar to what you're describing.
GiveBloodPlayHockeyI've read something about this , Typically I get that and dry skin on my hands as soon as I start aromasin ... Seems to be a strong sucidial anti estrogen for me , possibily a better choice would be Arimidex or letro , never had issues with Arimidex before and letro would be a new ballgame .... Going to take Viking advice and only use when needed
How long after taking ? Week two weeks or days
GiveBloodPlayHockeyNext day my eye brows flake and dry skin To the point it's peeling and I have white lRge flakes in them . Once I stop taking aromasin it goes away . Thinking maybe it's sucidial properties ?
I have never used aromasin.... sounds like it doesnt agree with you bro, i go against most on here by not running typical Ai .. not sure if its a British thing only but you would not believe how many guys i have helped on here that have been encountering serious problems that have been cured more or less instantly by dropping their Ai usage..... lots of people dont realise they are walking around with crashed E2 purely because of the "Cookie Cutter" approach of modern cycles which INSISTS Ai is run as a cycle ancillary from more or less day 1.
Personal choice i suppose for most.... but after i spoke to hundreds of guys on here who have any "Pedigree" or "Successful competition history" my findings were that they shared the same beliefs as myself.... and the consensus was ... Ai on hand only so as to fully take advantage of the anabolic properties of estrogen.
DISCLAIMER...... Each and every adult should make up their own minds through self-experimentation before using or substituting traditional Anti-aromatase products.
GiveBloodPlayHockeyGlad to hear that ! I must omit the reason why I've added in anti estrogen was from reading up on this site ! I always saw everyone's responses is " add in your Ai or where is your prolactin protection " I know this topic is not about PROLACTIN ... But how do you feel about that ? Is caber or prami something you use consistently on cycle with 19nor or do you keep on hand and blast if problems arise ?? Also Your right about the cookie cutter approach it's not for everyone ! Thanks again for the useful information and glad to hear it from someone with PERSONAL EXPERIENCE
Prolactin is not anabolic like estrogen and really serves no useful functions in a male. Really no reason not to drive it down to be safe but some don't want to burn the money or put more drugs in than they need to. I will always use it running tren or nandrolone because if I don't my nips start to hurt. Also scared me when I saw a guy lactate and I do not ever want that to happen to me lol
GiveBloodPlayHockeySo is it bro science that if you control estrogen that prolactin will not be an issue ? Not saying your right or wrong but typical cookie cutter information on this site would be caber .25 or .5 evey 3 days ... Just trying to clarify this so if and when I do ever run some 19nor's I have some useful personal experience information ! I wish others would chime in with questions this is how I learn
It's highly individual. Some seem to only need an AI but others like myself have had bloods where estrogen is in range yet nips are dying on 19 Nors and goes away when caber is added. I started a thread a while ago trying to figure out the biochemistry and everything behind it. All I found out was that it turns out the medical data is just not up to par yet to tell us for certain so everything is a guess. So in the end see what works for you but there's no harm in dropping prolactin
Problem is that there isn't any controlled clinical medical proof either way. If someone has a study they could link please do because I can't find one anywhere. Like so many things in this game we play it all comes down to the individuals response to whatever drug in question. For me personally I don't get prolactin sides if I control estrogen. The next guy might fight it no matter what his estrogen level is.
19nors, at least for me are so unpredictable. I've had cycles where I didn't need a DA, then ones where I have. Can't be explained. I would have it on hand to combat sides if they arise.
I'm going to have to defer on this I don't know maybe viking or somebody will chime in . I know it can after a week if you have crashed your Estro but never seen it that fast
OK I'm realativly new to gear compared to most here (few years and 5 full cycles) but not training. So here goes, let's see what I can do...
1-16 Sust-250 @ 750/week
1-16 NPP @ 300/ week
12-16 tren @ 300/week
5000 cals per day. 2 servings of healthy fats min to combat bloating and help digest the food. 70-80 grams of low GI carbs per meal except wake up and post WO meals in which hi GI carbs @ 50-80 grams. Lower amount mornings and higher post WO. 1 servings veggies every meal, 45-50 grams of ptotien every 2 hrs or as close as he can get with his schedule. High volume exercise WO and no cardio. Adjust fat intake as needed to keep a clean gas free belly as well as probiotic if needed. If water weight gets to excessive first try Midol to shed some if that doesn't do enough lose any creatine intake.
If estrogen becomes an issue I recommend 1 of 3 things in sequential order of preference.
Primo/proviron
Letrozole
Nolva/clomid stacked low dose
1-16 sust 600mg a week
1-14 deca 400mg a week
1-4 dbol 30mg a day divided 3 doses morning preworkout and night because of the short half life to increase nitrogen retention.
Aromasin based on his bloodwork
Caber .25-.5 e3d depending on prolactin
At 225 10% calories should be at least 5000 with high carbs to bulk.
Everyone is different and I base this hypothetical situation on my bodies responses.
Test E week 1-16 at 125mg
Deca week 1-14 at 600mg
Equipoise week 1-14 at 400mg
If Mr. Jones has a sedentary job then 4500 calories, active job 5000.
Adex at .25-.5 mg eod. He should keep a DA on hand but won't need it if he's anything like me.
That's almost exactly the ratios I would use on myself but I think you're gonna get some crap for it from the more "traditional" users lol
I cant stress enough of the importance of getting blood work done pre cycle little over half way through you cycle and after your pct to make sure you have recovered.. now you can get away with not doing it mid way its just something I do to adjust my dosages if needed personal preference there only.
Ok guys I gotta work some but other guys please take over and answer and continue .. I will be back later
Have fun working..
For pure weight gain i would advise him to eat an easy 3 meals pr day, each one giving around 2000cals with 2 of my gaining shakes which are 1740cals each... thats a nice and easy 9000+ cals ( hit the shakes between solid meals) GHRP-6 will give him the necessary appetite needed to blast through these meals.
Compounds ............. Well! it doesnt really matter what he uses because he simply cannot fail to gain with an eating plan like that....... why bother battling with 19nor or DHT sides when all you want to be concentrating on is EATING,TRAINING AND SLEEPING...... keep it simple... test only or test/provi with a drol kicker 2wk on 2wk off to screw the benefits from its binding affinity...... super long estered test would be best.. something like decanoate (Nebido) or one of my favourites from back in the day.. good testosterone Heptylate.
As always.... good fats are ok, just watch the sugars.
Ok you didn't plan your cycle well you forgot to buy a AI .. Now your in trouble your starting to break out and your bloated ... U contacted your src and its 10 days at best before you can get your AI shipped .. What do you do
Shoot myself in the head for being a twat and not prepping the cycle properly lol
Break-outs are something i have never suffered from but for bloat i would jump on the Vitc 500mg split 3 times daily.
I have never run AI..... i like to use the anabolic properties of estrogen and not kill them dead..... as a gyno prevention i run a combo of masteron and proviron that as done me proud for many years.. well documented in the archives here and i think quite a few brothers have adopted this protocol and get great results also.
Not many understand how anabolic estorgen is. keeping e2 low will make ones gains suffer, Thats my real world experience. low dose nolva to prevent gyno and proviron to lower e2 just a bit and offset the rise in shbg high e2 can cause works well for me. Havent tried the mest/mast combo yet. Its def on the to do list.
The grasshopper can't teach the master anything lol
lol.... i mentioned lower down the thread IF i really drastically needed an Ai it would be letrozole bro..... and i am still a lover of Nolva.......... it gets a bad rap because it not "designer" like the shit these kids want but it does the fkn job its supposed to........ nolva is always something that should be "on hand".
It's really good to have you back on .. I like this Viking better cause your not bogged down with bull shit of a mod and can actually give your knowledge
True about the diet..and bolus feeding...
3 meals a day sounds great. You always here 5-6 times a day, or 8-10. I think for a lot people, myself included, our schedules can't accommodate that many meals. I would much rather eat three large meals. I usually have one of your shakes after lunch-before my workout, and one before bed. I'm starting my bulk. No roids just trying to eat a bunch. I may run some ghrp6, but that's it.
Thats why i laid it out with 3 meals bro.... i fully realise most folks have jobs and are not full time bodybuilders..... i have done it both ways with results, and we prepped Suze for the Universe you remember and she was still having to work the 8hr day working as a fitness instructor, so we had to just fit meals in when we could........... and you saw the results we created there.... amazing! and we went against ALL printed protocols .
Fantastic, all the research I have done about food and timing as well as how many times a day you should eat has led me the some conclusions that you talk about. For the 9 to 5 guy 3 solid protein/carb/calorie rich meals can give you some of the same benefits as 6-8 times a day DEPENDING on what type of job or activity you perform in that 8 hour stretch. A sediment job can get away with lower calories but rich in protein for lunch and dinner, but higher carbs for the morning meal. A very active job requires somewhat the opposite with a better balance of carbs and protein and more calories during the 2nd meal. I have been following 4 meals a day and still average 210 pounds. My job is a sit on your ass one now so I make sure the last meal of my day is a high protein/zero carb shake. It's been working wonders for the past couple months staying around 4500 a day total. Fuck my food bill is killing me but I always spend more on that then any aas. I will go back to my trt dose before I spend more on aas then food.
This is what its all about here....... see Mack what you have done is experimented and found what works best for you at certain times, no doubt you have the knowledge and discipline now that if your daily routine changed somewhat you could easily swap diet/intake around to suit without stressing about it... purely because you know and understand the basic principles of nutrition.
Lets not worry about body weight to much bro..... i saw a picture last week of Frank Zane at 72yrs old i think or it may have been 74 not sure?.......... find it and have a look bro..... he looks phenomenal, still sporting the "Classic Bodybuilder" aesthetics instead of the "Mass Monster" we tend to be towards these days.
Good to see you bud
Curve ball me and i would jump on letro or a masteron/provi combo................. but you knew that already lmao!
Can we do this even if we havent used the compounds?
these are the compounds mr jones has ran out of these AAS make the bulking cycle
Yes sir...lol!!
Ok so Mr. jones has only run several cycles so it's important to keep it simple! I see no reason to burst through the gram a week barrier! Also since this is a rather long run, I would advise him to run long esters and avoid the ed or eod pinning which he might abandon midway!
Test E 500mg.
Deca 300mg.
He should pin twice a week to keep blood levels stable and should also take caber dosed at .5mg. weekly for possible prolactin and erectile issues!
Calories consumed should be in the 4500-5000 range since he has a slow metabolism!
Protein intake should be about 2 grams per pound of body weight! Carbs should be on the high side since he isn't afraid to puts some fat with the muscle! Fats should come from assorted nuts, avacodos and healthy oils!
Great post brother GJ! I really had some fun with this and I hope I passed! :))
+3
Thanks brother Vike! I'm happy I passed! :))
around week 7 mr jones is noticing he is having bad estrogen sides but he has been taking arimidex .5mg every 3rd day but it seems not to work even after upping the dosage to .5 eod? what could be the cause
GiveBloodPlayHockeywhen using aromasin after my first dose i get dry skin on my eyebrows.....common issue ?
Ok I'll take a stab at this! Arimidex isn't for everyone since their are estrogen rebound issues! Personally I've use aromasin dosed at 12.5mg. because of its suicidal properties! I would advise him thus so! If problems persist I would advise him to up his caber intake to 1mg. A week!
same thing I was getting to... the arimedex was bunk he received and had the sound of mind to switch to aromasin..... you get a plus 2 from me very smart having more than one AI on hand just for this very situation GOOD JOB
Thank you kindly brother GJ! That was quite the curve ball! :))
I'm going to go for a simple test p, test e equipoise
Weeks 1-4 test p 100mg eod or 50mg ed
Weeks 1-16 test e 750mg split mon/thurs
Weeks 1-2 Equipoise 1600mg split mon/Thursday
Weeks 3-16 Equipoise 800mg split mon/thur
Adex on hand if needed.
Dependant on how much fat he's willing to put on and how clean his diet is going to be i would just tell him to eat everything(clean foods) in sight and drink semi skimmed milk with it. As long as it's clean food I don't see much fat gain no matter how much I eat.
If he wants to be cautious he could start just over maintenance calories and ramp up 500 calories a week like PallMall said below.
ok go back and do a little more research here your ok on 2 of the coumpounds .. test E and P... rethink the equipoise its a bulker cycle and he isn't afraid to add a little fat. there are better coumpounds on Mr jones list to accomplish this ... but good job
PallMallHmmm
O.k. mr. Jones has a slow matabolism and some diet issues as shown by his stats so we're gonna go a different route and get his food intake way up and help him out with getting some usage from those calories.
He's gonna run the following:
Test Enanthate: 1500mg weekly eod pins
HGH: 2IU 4 x daily (every six hours)
T3: 75mg upon waking
He's gonna have to get used to food and we're assuming he doesn't eat enough. He's gonna work from 3,000 up adding 500 a week until he reaches 5,000 clean calories. Every two weeks he's having a cheat weekend and he's gonna binge, at least 7,000 calories.
so at week 7 you can no longer get or maintain a erection what is the issue now remember your only running testosterone cycle.
PallMallImpotence caused by cigarette smoking.
Just kidding. By week 7 mr. Jones will have a large quantity of testosterone in his system so bloodwork to check how his a.i. is doing should be done immediately. Arimidex will be dosed at 1mg daily for a week and cialis will be taken every 3 days at 20Mg per day for immediate libido help. Bloodwork will be repeated after 1 week and adex adjusted accordingly,