JintoBold's picture
JintoBold
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+ 10 USE PHARMA FIRST

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Here on Eroids and many other places around the world it is a common suggestion for first time users to run a cycle of Testosterone Ethanate at 500mg weekly.I happen to very much agree with this concept.As I have mentioned,we could probably write a book called 101 reasons to run test e first cycle...A few days ago I commented that your first cycle is like creating your own personal manual on running future cycle.We suggest this so that the user can gauge the effects and side effects from the hormone.How he will react to testosterone....We also have suggestions on running an AI.First cycle the user will see the level of estrogen response and how he should establish the correct protocol to manage it.......Discovering how your body responds to testosterone and estrogen in this manner is very important to the future course of cycles IMO.

As firm as we are with how important this is ,I am surprised I don't see more people strongly recommend using pharma testosterone and maybe even more importantly Pharma AI's as well as PCT.....Starting with testosterone.Maybe the possible inconsistencies in milligrams isn't such a big deal,but I feel it understated in a first cycle.The difference between possibly an overdosed UGL @ 600 and maybe an underdose at 300mg or even less is significant IMO...Especially on a first cycle when you are trying to get an accurate gauge on how your body reacts to a certain dose....How bout the different solvents and solutions that can be used to make a test e?I know that it should be pretty standard but there are a variety of solutions with different chemicals.Even though a bad reaction to a solvent is low ,it is still a possibility.This may cause a user to question exactly what he is reacting to.Was it the hormone or a solvent?....OK maybe not a big deal,but a fair point.We want as few possible complications as possible.....As far as the actual dosing,not much to say there.A user who believed he was tolerating 500mg easily on his first cycle(because it was only 300mg or less) then jumps up to 750mg on his second cycle an is facing trouble....that scenario can obviously be reversed...Over to the AI and PCT....We all know how inconsistent UGL's and especially research companies can be with these products.Obviously,it may never be a good time to use a research grade AI/PCT but if so,,,a first time is certainly not the time.Once again,we are trying to establish a protocol for how to combat estrogen and research grade is probably rarely dosed correctly.....So,first cycle you determine that you need .75mg of arimidex(because its actually underdosed) then next time you run that protocol you end up crashing your estrogen.....For a first cycle I can probably write a book 101 reason to use all pharma products.

In Psychology I learned that our first impression or experience with something will instill beliefs in us about it .We then take these beliefs to creates future perspective on applicable things and situations.If our initial beliefs were created falsly then it will cause us to have false perceptions in the future in similar situations.Like I explained with the first time test cycle and wanting to establish and accurate protocol.If we cause ourself to be mislead by using misdosed gear then this will cause us poor judgement in our next cycle..

These principles can also be applied with us more advanced users as well...The first time we use a new compound in a cycle we also don't want to add another first time compound to the same cycle.This will obviously make It difficult to identify where the problem is coming from IF we were to have a problem.We also want to see exactly how our body reacts and how the compound performs for us and at its given dose.We want to get an accurate assessment any time we use a new compound.For that reason,I would also suggest using a pharma compound any time you are using a compound for the first time.Of course,that is if possible.If not,you would certainly want to do your research and get the best and most accurately dosed as possible.........I have a personal example to share....The first time I used T-BOL ,I got it from a source I was not familiar with.Not only that,but I didn't even find any real reviews on it...Basically,I ignorantly made the purchase.But,this can also happen with a UGL even after doing adequate research....My TBOL,I believe was Dbol....I happen to have experience with most orals but if I hadn't...I would have been lead by that impression and believed that T-BOL provided me big strength and mass gains quickly,with mild bloating etc etc etc.....you get my point.....This now becomes my understanding of TBOL...Falsly....which brings me to another point that I see ALL TO OFTEN.......I will hear members sharing their experience and even using their experience to make cycle suggestions and such......They are basing their suggestions on only 1 use.This I feel is probably a bad ideal to begin with but if they had an experience where it was not even a legit product or not dosed correctly they are now giving advice on a completely false premise.I understand that users want to help out and are excited to share their experience,I admire that,I have done it before.If my experience was only once or with a questionable product I am going to share that along with the information.PLEASE if you are going to make recommendation off 1 experience ,note that you have only had 1 experience.

So my point with all of this is that we always want our first experience to be as accurate as possible.It will impact our understanding for future.To do this,I would always recommend using pharma.this This is especially important for first time cyclers.

DarthPale asked the members to start writing more in the forum.So ,I figure what the hell...If something on your mind go ahead and write.There isn't a whole lot of activity.Its nice to see as many new topics ass possible.Some times even something seemingly insignificant will turn into an enlightening discussion.

cybrsage's picture

I am lucky because my TRT doc overprescribes my test. He says he would rather me have too much and have to throw it away than run out.

IrishMack's picture

the difference between pharma and ugl is night and day, lucky for me I had pharma my 1st time from my trt. Nowadays I cruise on my pharm and blast on ugl because I do not want to chance my well being considering all the shit going around lately. Like double T said, why build a ferrari and then stuff a honda 4 cylinder in it then complain when grandma flips you off and passes you in a powder blue prius?

Pale's picture

Just caught this thread. Very good brother. +3

- K A P S I Z E -'s picture

i have said many times on various threads that i will ONLY use pharma grade testosterone. my first cycle i used supposedly 400-450mg of test E from, then, the number 1 source, had great reviews, many fanboys, although he was kinda a "D"ick. and i was underwhelmed by the cycle even though i ate like a monster. i was asking myself, "this is steroids? this is what all the hype is about? maybe im a nonresponder, maybe i need to eat more (i did and just put on more fat, so i cut back down to about 4000cals) ..sure i gained a bit but it was no where near the same as when i ran 583mg of pharma grade the next cycle i did. sure on paper an extra 183mg a week will make a difference but its more than that. when old timers say pharma grade is just.... better. its true. something about the manufacturing process or the purity of the hormone im not exactly sure but its on another level than ug imo. and when sources that carry pharma grade run promos and amps can be had for cheap its almost a no brainer to run pharma. i know many people swear by their favorite ugl but i dont trust the consistency of Chinese manufacturing and a ugl is only as good as their raw supplier. base your cycle with only the best and then stack ug only products on top. at least you know the most important compound in the stack is as good as it gets.

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TheFlash85's picture

Gotta trust your source, ugl or pharma still roulette, so much fake pharma getting around. Recently a mate of mine decided pharma, ordered from thailand, came in sachets, he pre loaded 1500mgs of sust, then 750 a week for another 4ish weeks, no gains, no size etc kept saying how smooth as butter it was, yep not far off a few of us did a taste test on it-- canola oil.

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Makwa's picture

My next cycle is going to be a simple bulk and all pharma grade. Looking forward to see if I can tell a difference. If so, that is all I am getting from here on out.
+2

Engineereddisaster's picture

Nice write up bro. I 100% agree. Set the bar with perfection and then dick around with the discount shit.
+2

The Impastable's picture

Good read, I wonder how much of this is "bro-marketing", how much of this is cost related, and how much of this is accessibility?

tonytulo's picture

Would you put a 4 cylinder in a Ferrari, would you put regular petro in it or the good stuff? Point being you get out what you put in if its more then a hobby and is more a lifestyle , like your a competitor you want the best of the best period , this lifestyle is expensive but im not going to trip over pennies while going for dollars...... Accessibility is a whole nother thing as I stated below........ This is an expensive lifestyle especially if your competing or looking like you compete.... What you spend on your cycle is peanuts compared to the food bill....

- K A P S I Z E -'s picture

soooo true. when im bulking i might be going through 20-35$ worth of various meat a day. and even if i was running a gram of pharma grade primo, test, and var it still wouldnt come close to that cost haha ..even pharma grade gear is cheap when you look at the big picture. food, protein powder, various supps, gym bill, ect.. gear is dirt cheap when put in perspective

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The Impastable's picture

I don't disagree with you brother, and I think your point about whether this is a lifestyle choice vs. just a hobby is probably the biggest issue and encompasses all of those points. I agree you should always put the best into your body, but I wonder how many of the guys on this board compete, vs. how many do this just because. For those who this is a hobby for going UGL makes sense to some extent I suppose. I think for anyone truly serious the real issue is always accessability, as having to import PG gear from overseas can be quite the hassle, costly, and carries risk. I know this lifestyle is expensive, I spend more on food in a month than an entire cycle... But I am curious how many others follow suit. I'm not debating the staple members of eroids, we all know who they are, but how many of these new posters, SI threaders actually eat right?

tonytulo's picture

I get what your saying bro. I think many here don't put as much thought and care into the things they do by any means and more often than not their cycles, physique and how nonchalantly they use gear in vast amounts on end incorrectly also shows it. Many here depend soo much on gear and vast amounts if they were to locate pharma they surly wouldn't able to swing it long. Many guys here don't even have set goals or make a plan to achieve them.... My views on who should use and who shouldn't aren't the consensus here, I can tell you in my opinion that many here either don't need the gear they use or don't need the amounts they use and if they put in the work in the kitchen and the gym like they do with their love for aas they'd be way further along...... This whole game carries risk and we take that risk to reach our goals that we cant achieve naturally or atleast that's my view. As many here do not share that view ,instead we have guys who had no base or physique at all start running gear......... Even if its a hobby does that justify sub par products? No I think that comes down to being easily accessible , cheap ,and people being careless and reckless. With that being said not all UGL gear is created equal some run a very tight ship and aquire the best raws they can, take their security very serious ,and their clients testaments and physiques support that. But , due to it being so easy to do many labs pop up out of nowhere and many people truly just don't give a fuck about the end user........ I think youd be surprised at how many guys don't take their health serious , their diet serious , their training serious , this lifestyle serious etc etc , and by serious I mean serious enough to justify aas use to obtain goals they cannot achieve naturally... A close friend here compared many on the boards to junkies but instead of a narcotic they are addicted to aas and use it as a crutch......

The Impastable's picture

I've always enjoyed your posts on the forum, this one is no different. I share the same views as you regarding this topic.

What is to be done about all this though? Steroids are being popped like candy nowadays by guys and gals from all different backgrounds and abilities, because it is the easy way out, just like weight loss stimulants and the like. Guys like you approach every aspect of this as a lifestyle choice, and that is a rare approach nowadays. How can you instill that approach into the YOLO crowd? You can't.

Part of what makes this forum so special is already the defeated argument. By participating, we already acknowledge that most members looking for advice aren't holding the same views the lifers here are. So by advocating safe protocols, we're trying to minimize the potential harm. this is an uphill battle, and I feel like it's going to end up at the bottom of the trough...

tonytulo's picture

Thank you. I just try to keep it real and full of common sense.

There isn't much we can do other than call out offenders , the longer they do what they do the more follow suit and before you know it ts normal.... I have no problems with people having different goals, different builds etc etc . what pisses me off is when they use PEDs to achieve goals they very well could've done naturally , the same goes for losing weight or bodyfat too many depend on stimulants whether it be thyroid meds or what have you when they lack discipline and dedication.

I approach things with care and I don't sugar coat anything or favor anyone, no special treatment , no special circumstances... Your right you can't instill that on the yolo crowd alone. The problem lies with the older guys who act like they're 20 its called lead by example which many here dont .

Things would change if people voiced their opinions and called out the fuckery on site but until than people who have similar views are just looked at like we're just assholes. I personally only help those who are ready , have a foundation, have a brain , do their research and learn than pass the knowledge on......the battle will always wage on and if no one ever says anything nothing will ever change.....

The Impastable's picture

Always keeping it real TT, you have my respect my man.

tonytulo's picture

I constantly preach pharma AIs if obtainable for the op. My take on it is this id much rather have some bunk test and have the cycle go down the toilet rather then get gyno or other estrogen related problems/sides due to my arimidex , aro , letro or caber be junk. I find it funny that guys still buy into liquid caber when its been proven it isn't biologically stable in liquid form. I also preach to guys to stay away from Guaiacol and EO as one is an industrial solvent and plasticizer while the other is used as a flavorants, expectorant, antiseptic, and local anesthetic. Its also fairly easy to figure out by price wise as people think some of these raws are cheap they are wrong anavar , masteron , primo , proviron, etc etc are not easily obtainable and are far from cheap and often faked, which can be detrimental to a woman's health if she is expecting anavar and gets dbol, primo and gets something else etc etc. Also its easy to tell when you have guys saying they're running over 100mgs of anavar or dbol etc I just laugh and say no, no you are not lmfao.... Pharma is the way to go with most things but where there is high demand and not enough easily accessible pharma product the fakes and generics take over the market. When it comes to fakes it can be totally bunk and be nothing but a sugar pill depending what they decided to use....... or in the case of generics you haven't a clue whats in it but as like most you only give a shit if it works to some extent......

When you factor in all the variables and what the cost vs. effect is ill take the pharma route and educate yourself on how to spot real packaging vs. fake packaging , real pills vs. fakes, etc etc

VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

new topics ass possible.

Yep!... you can talk about "ass" all day for me bro lol

https://www.eroids.com/pics/saturday-is-bootaaaay-day

The Impastable's picture

Who is this DarthPole?

VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

I thought he meant "MeatPole"?

Engineereddisaster's picture

MeatHole?

VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

yeah that.....

Engineereddisaster's picture

Me like meat hole. Meat hole! meat hole! meat hole!