Magnifying glass isn't working- PCT w Aromasin question
So I just finished PCT just over a week ago. For the first time, I added in aromasin to it to test out how that felt in comparison to a standard nolva/clomid pct. I did also do a HCG blast prior to PCT
I did a lot of research before hand. Saw that it had to be aromasin (as opposed to Letro/Adex) because Nolva messes with blood plasma levels while combining it with Letro or Adex. So I did more digging. I saw that aromasin was being suggested at 25mg per day on some sites. Nothing was medically showing how to dose it so it was a lot of "bro-science". I have never taken 25mg and I don't ever think I will need to. So I dug some more and found that most ran it 12.5/12.5/6.25/6.25 over the 4 weeks. I decided that was what I would start with.
My PCT was:
HCG 500iu/ED starting 10 days prior to pct
Clomid: 100/100/50/50
Nolva: 40/40/20/20
Aromasin 12.5/12.5/6.25/6.25
Now in week one of this PCT w/ aromasin, I started to feel like shit. Just tired, mopey, no energy and I just assumed it was the coming down from the gear. Week two got even worse. I felt like a zombie at work, I had bad anxiety and for the first time in my life I needed help in the bedroom. Never before have I had that issue in PCT or any other time. At that point I came back to the computer dug around and found some posts by vets like Rusty who said the nolva should be cut in half when used with aromasin.
Now I was never able to find any related medical advice on that but I seem to see it on and off on this site. Like I said in subject line, magnifying glass doesnt work for me on this computer so I can't dig up the info I need. A standard google search has turned up nothing as to why nolva would be run less than normal when with aromasin.
I understand Nolva is a SERM and Aromasin is an AI so I accept that somewhere in here is the reason I felt like shit and I believe my estro crashed because of it. I have never had crashed estro but the 14 days were fucking hell. I dropped the aromasin when i got really bad and felt like poo.
If it was the two that caused the estro crash, how did it happen since Nolva only blocks estro in certain sites where aromasin destroys a percentage of the estro looking to aromatize.
I usually run 12.5mg ed during my low test cycles so the other option was maybe I never needed the aromasin during pct.
How would I tweak this to recieve the benefits associated with an AROMASIN pct with out having to feel like shit next time?
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You basically answered your own question... if you need 12,5mg on cycle, why on earth would you run it at that same dosage after you discontinued test...?
And you don't want to run it throughout the whole PCT, drop it 2 weeks before the end so your estro slowy comes back in balance with testosterone...
AnonI use 12.5mg/day of aromasin on cycle, anywhere between 500-750mg of test. So using that much in pct would surely crash my estro. I would have dropped it to 6.25 ed or even eod during pct.
eod doesnt work with aromasin, just creates a roller coaster patter with the estro. It was actually you that sparked this post. In the cycle logs, I had suggested lowering the nolva when using aromasin because of what Rusty said below. You said nolva doesnt matter with AI because it is SERM and only blocks in breast tissue.
I am just trying to find some concrete data on why one would run the nolva lower. Personally my estro crashed running it with aromasin so I dont know I will travel down the road again.
Just looking to spark constructive debate and get to the bottom. Would love to here your thoughts on this
AnonIll have to research more into the using less nolva with aromasin. My initial thought is that since the aromasin does lower your estro there is less circulating so you wouldnt need as much nolva to block estro from binding at the breast tissue. And some guys dont tolerate nolva well so perhaps the lower dose helps mitigate sides while still helping with recovery. But there are other benefits from nolva besides preventing gyno, so you gotta find what dose works best for you. 20 mg might do the trick just fine while more suppressive or longer cycles may require more.
Some guys do fine on eod with low dose aromasin. If you crashed your estro, lets say your estro was at 5 and your sweet spot is 30. If dosing everyday got you to 5 then dosing eod isnt going to create such a spike in estro that would cause an issue. It would allow your estro to get a little higher, which is actually more preferable.
For someone who is having trouble getting their estro in check, I would agree eod dosing is not ideal.
Or like you said, leave the aromasin out all together. Its not necessarily a must use item in pct.
Im glad I could spark a little debate, im here to help but also to learn, I would love to hear others opinions on this.
RustyhookerShould a had Nolvadex at 20...20..10...10 . If your estro was dumping then skip the aro a few days to get some estro or just start at half dose to see if more is needed.
As with anything we all differ. Like your reference of letro. There's guys running Leto on cycle because they convert estro that badly. While others need no ai at all.
On a bigger cycle I run the 12.5 in pct. I also add horney goat weed in there too. First sign of low estro for me is my joints pop n snap like knuckles cracking. Feet, knees, elbows...pop pop pop. High estro and damn spca commercial causes sadness. Elevated higher and feels like Titty twister.
Basically, Lotta listen to body advice. I do wish it was one size fits all.
I am curious though as to why you are suggesting to cut the nolva in half when taking aromasin? Every article I could read on google showed our standard pct with 12.5-25mg of aromasin. Most times they suggested just nolva and aromasin but thats not my question.
So if one is a SERM and one is an AI then what caused the crash for me? I was fine after a couple of days but it was a rough couple of shitty days. Next time I will definitely lower the nolva if I run aromasin.
thanks for the input Rusty!
RustyhookerThe reports/stickies in this section suggest that with estrogen in control (aromasin) there's not as much need for the serm. Combo meal deal. Less Nolvadex blues as well.
Aromasin also showed a rise in igf per those same reports. So far that pct 3 way combo has been good for me. But adjust as needed incase estro is high/low.
Google horney goat weed as well on the net. There's medical reports of its magic.
thanks for the insight... I did some reading on the horny goat weed. I used to sell a lot of it in my GNC days but never used it myself. Looks like I am next time!