+ 1 Low test 2 months after cycle (blood test)
Okay so I ran a 12 week cycle. I ran test Cypionate @400mg a week and Deca Durabin @ 200mg a week. Ended the Deca on week 10 and kept on the test for another 2 weeks. Took Arimedex @ .25 Every 3 days.
The cycle went great and I gained close to 10 pounds while putting on a small amount of fat.
For PCT I waited 2 weeks After my last injection of test and did the normal Nolva at 40 40 20 20 with Clomid @ 100 100 50 50 for 4 weeks. During pct I felt decent, had reduced sex drive but not horrible, also lost a lot of mass.
A week or so after pct I lost all sex drive and had very low energy so I went to my dr to get a blood test complaining of fatigue and low sex drive.
Everything showed up normal except for the following:
1.Total Test 156 out of a range of 241 to 827
2. Free Test 26.95 out of a range of 48 to 169
3.SHBG 37.5 out of a range of 17 to 65
4.Bioavail 63 out of a range of 100 to 400
5. Estradial 16 out of 0 to 156
They didn't do LH or FSH test.
I unfortunately didn't get a baseline blood test before cycling but always had great energy and sex drive so I don't believe it was low before.
So Whats your guys opinion on what I need to do? Should I pct again? Do I need HCG? I have a follow up with my family dr in 5 days so anything I should ask for?
Thanks in advance for your time.
Stats, 26, 5'6'', 163, 2nd cycle,
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StevebGood info irongame
Recover from Deca can be a lengthy process. Retest in 4-6 weeks and review.
Good post....great advice below....
Well this is a risk we take everytime we cycle. Recovery isn't a guaranteed. 2 weeks is a little short for cyp. Almost everyone underestimates the clearance times of these drugs. According to my half life calculator pct should be starting a lot later then what most of us advise. So you probably still had a lot of exogenous testosterone in your system during the first two weeks of your pct, leaving only two weeks for the serms to do there job. And then there's the extremely hard shutdown decas notorious for causing.
First off it would have been very helpful if they also tested for FSH and LH. That way we could see if the origin of the problem is at the hypothalamus or pituatary not producing and releasing LH and FSH, or your leydeg cells not responding to the LH. If LH and FSH are normal then all you can really do is wait for your Leydeg cells to start responding again which can take a while. But LH and FSH levels are not normal and still low you could try another pct and attempt to stimulate your pituitary gland into producing LH and FSH.
So If I was in this situation I would ask for them to test for those two things and then to from there. It's really hard I advise anything without knowing this. Whatever you do don't accept trt if that's what they suggest. You can still recover, it's just gonna take a little bit longer.
Very valuable info, could you share with us the calculator you use for when to start PCT
I agree with u iron that why I took bloods 3 weeks after last pin to see my levels then started pct on day 24 after last pin and it's been a smooth transition
This came up a yr or 2 ago quiet a bit. Usually prolactin keeping them shut down during pct from deca. Probably needs to run pct with caber .5 x week for 3'or for more weeks.
Maybe run a PCT re-boot with a plan from CarlosD, too
Could but I think just a basic pct with caber .5 x 2 a week will be all he needs. He's recover now but very slow due to prolactin more than likely and caber will knock that out and he should be gtg 50 clomid 20 nov 6.5 aromasin and caber .5 x 2 a week for 3 or 4 more weeks.
Ya I actually read an article not to long ago that said the reason it's so hard to recover from 19-Nors is because high prolactin damages the hpta. Wish I could pull it up again it was really interesting.
So do you think an acceptable route would be to pct again with clomid 100 100 50 50 and nolvodex 40 40 20 20 and caber .5 twice a week for 4 weeks?
And than is the consensus to retest 2 weeks after stoping a 2nd pct?
I really don't have that much spare money and would really rather not have to keep going back to the dr for a couple of visits.
Well here's the thing. If we knew your LH levels and they were low then yes that would probably be the best route to go. But we don't know, your LH levels might be normal. And if that's the case I'm not sure another pct is gonna be very benifical. All you'll be doing is stimulating your pituitary to produce more LH which is unecessary because your levels are already normal. The few studies I've read when they administer exogenous testosterone to people showed that that the problem with recovery was due to leydeg cells ( cells that produce testosterone) becoming desensitized to LH. In a normally functioning hpta without getting into the first step of the process the pituitary releases LH which then signals the leydeg cells in your testes to produce testostrone. So these studies showed that LH and FSH levels returned to normal after about 3 weeks after they stopped giving them testosterone but test levels did not begin to rise for many more weeks because the ones leydeg cells were not responding to LH. So all you can do in this situation is wait.
So bottom line is we need those numbers. So one route is you get the blood tests and they show normal levels of LH and FSH so then all you can do is wait. Or it shows low levels so you start another pct. Or you don't do that and just do another pct but it doesn't do anything because the problem is not originating at the pituitary but because of this desensitization occurring in your testes. So then you wasted money running the pct.i if it was me I would get the blood tests. You don't need to go to your doctor, go to labsmd.com or privatemedlabs.com and get the female hormone panel. At privatemedlabs it's only like 45 bucks with the 15% off discount code you can find online.
Didnt this article state that even one shot of nandrolone could damage hpta amd cause low t? I rememeber reading this too. Definitely need caber and hCG when using 19-nors.